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PistoldPete2

A new Cold War

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Don't think I can remember a time when relations with Russia were so bad, cyber attacks , interference in elections and now nerve gas attacks on British citizens in their own country. Not sure what we will do about it. 

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An added worry on top of everything else is that in the era of "fake news" - it becomes increasingly hard to know what to believe

If Putin wanted that spy dead - he could have easily done it in a way that left no trace. He could have just been "disappeared" or had a nasty unexplainable accident. Nerve gas in a public place is either a false flag or Putin is deliberately provoking us. I honestly don't know which it is. Neither scenario is great

 

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10 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

What is the value to us of undertaking a false flag? Is stirring the pot with Russia really a priority right now? Looks like a massive botch job from whoever wanted it done to me.

I didn't say it was necessarily US that were behind it - but possibly another state actor? I don't know. Who benefits most from stoking conflict against the Russians. Surely not the Russians themselves. In which case they don't appear to have any great motivation behind it either

The fact that it's reported as a nerve agent developed exclusively in Russia just seems an odd choice of weapon if you want to avoid being blamed.

If it was Russia - the only even partially logical explanation is that they just wanted to send a message to any more potential double-agents that they will be dealt with. In which case it's really an internal matter that shouldn't fuel a new cold war.

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15 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

If it was Russia...it's really an internal matter that shouldn't fuel a new cold war.

So we should be o.k. with them attacking people on UK soil (including nearly killing one of our Police Officers.....)?

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16 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

So we should be o.k. with them attacking people on UK soil (including nearly killing one of our Police Officers.....)?

I don't think anyone is saying they are OK with it, just that it needs to be dealt with in a careful manor. Going in two footed so to speak is only likely to cause more issues.

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3 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

I don't think anyone is saying they are OK with it, just that it needs to be dealt with in a careful manor. Going in two footed so to speak is only likely to cause more issues.

"it's really an internal matter" is not saying that though - we and our allies need to make it clear to Putin that this cannot be allowed to happen. He's been flying bombers close to our airspace and warships as close to UK waters as he can - now this attack which seems to be an escalation of his dick waving exercises - I suspect purely to make himself look 'big' to the Russian people. We of course have to be careful how we respond, but it has to be meaningful and send a message - we can't afford a Corbynesque "let's all sit down and talk about it over tea and biscuits" approach unless we want this to become a regular occurrence....

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These accusation tactics by US and British authorities are getting tiresome.  Saying that they know Russia was behind something and not supplying any evidence for it won't fly.  Present the evidence or it's a lie.  The said nerve agent BTW was manufactured by USSR and could have come from any of it's former territories, but the fact that May claims that proves Russia is guilty tells us all we need to know, it's a fabrication, a provocation.

NATO wants confrontation with Russia in Syria.  If they think that can be contained, they are wrong.

Dangerous times

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25 minutes ago, ramit said:

These accusation tactics by US and British authorities are getting tiresome.  Saying that they know Russia was behind something and not supplying any evidence for it won't fly.  Present the evidence or it's a lie.  The said nerve agent BTW was manufactured by USSR and could have come from any of it's former territories, but the fact that May claims that proves Russia is guilty tells us all we need to know, it's a fabrication, a provocation.

NATO wants confrontation with Russia in Syria.  If they think that can be contained, they are wrong.

Dangerous times

Would you like them to post you a vial of the nerve agent so that you'll believe it? They have publicly stated that the folk at Porton Down have confirmed the type of nerve agent involved - one that was created and manufactured by Russia. Yes it's possible that someone else has acquired this, but it's not the sort of stuff that's available on ebay or something you can knock-up in a lab at home, so the first port of call is the people with the easiest access - which is the Russian state. If Russia is not behind the attack, then they need to explain where the transgressors got the nerve agent from (has Russia 'lost' some?; have they 'shared' it with other people?, etc).

I'd be interested to know how you propose this should have been dealt with - and how loudly you'd have complained if they'd refused to comment at all. The conspiracy theories are just those at present - and just maybe by publicly naming Russia, they can flush out the individuals responsible for the actual act....

 

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