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Fans Forum 13th March


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21 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Do you know if they are putting the whole thing up on the website? I am really interested in the context these comments on the academy were made.

If they are as they read in your post, then  what the hell is going on? Are they now admitting that the academy is a failure? Is this another massive u-turn by the club? They have been banging on about 'pathways' and their massive investment in the youth set up.. What are they saying now, it's not working?

Did anyone challenge them on this at the forum? Why does it have to be a compromise? A convenient place to park an excuse.. The bloody fans again!! What are they not doing their jobs? The squads are big enough to accomodate an U23 here and there and give them some playing time in certain games.. We don't even do that, so Gary must think that they are not ready. Why are they not? We have players out on loan who seem to be nearly there. Is he saying putting them in our first team will mean mid table boredom? 

Talk is cheap Gary/Mel, someone should have challenged you on that..

Would have thought so yes, not sure how you have seen my comments as admitted the academy is a failure though, couldn't be further than the truth.

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On the social media thing.. Again is this another place to park an excuse.. Look at all you fans putting too much pressure on the players. Well reality check, social media is part of life now. Do they think it is any different at any other club? We are not unique as a fan base, in fact I would argue that we are probably one of the most foregiving.. Players get Twitter accounts, presmably so they can see all the posts saying how great they are. I don't like Twitter, can't get on with it and there are no excuses when it is used poorly.. But THEY let people into their lives via the medium.. They should do that fully in the knowledge that there is a down side to that as well. They always have the opportunity to shut it down.

We all take critism sometimes whether that be at work or at home.. These people arnt that special to be treated differently from you and me. Saying that, nobody should have to put up with what social media has turned into. 

Funny thing is though Angry, it seems like we are above any criticism as fans, we can give but can't take it and go all super defensive, it's the club making up excuses. It was never used last night as an excuse, not sure how you have taken that from anything in this thread, really think you should watch the full event when it goes live for the full context.

I simply jotted down a few points and was never intended as a minutes from the night. A lot more was covered which I didn't bring up. 

I would agree with you though that we are one of the more forgiving fanbases, having seen the likes of West Ham, Arsenal, Liverpool fans using social media, that's not to say we can't do better as a fanbase though, improve how we interact online.

Targeting players wives, we also quickly saw off a few after the Wembley defeat with the likes of Johnny Russell closing his account. Yes the players subject themselves to it, there is no pressure to be part of the circus but social media is a big part of life now, these are young men (mostly), they shouldn't have to distance themselves from what can be and should be an excellent tool to interact with fans. 

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1 minute ago, Ewe Ram said:

I heard him say that they have discussed at length the atmosphere, had meetings about it. Also that some players are affected by the tense atmosphere. 

I don't believe that Derby is different to any other club. The best thing to lift the mood is the slight of the ball hitting the back of the net.

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5 minutes ago, Ewe Ram said:

I heard him say that they have discussed at length the atmosphere, had meetings about it. Also that some players are affected by the tense atmosphere. 

Well these definitely aren’t the type of players you want in your team during the playoffs then.  

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13 minutes ago, David said:

Would have thought so yes, not sure how you have seen my comments as admitted the academy is a failure though, couldn't be further than the truth. Thats why I said I was interested in the context and how it was said. It does read from your post that they don't trust the academy players coming through. I saw @rynny comments and am now even more confused :o

The whole academy thing is a strange one as I posted in the Supporters Charter Meeting thread.

Funny thing is though Angry, it seems like we are above any criticism as fans, we can give but can't take it and go all super defensive, it's the club making up excuses. It was never used last night as an excuse, not sure how you have taken that from anything in this thread, really think you should watch the full event when it goes live for the full context. I get what you are saying and in some cases I would agree fully. However, we have a right to question, they have a right of reply. They open the door more times than not and should expect some backlash to contridictions that they put out there.

 

I simply jotted down a few points and was never intended as a minutes from the night. A lot more was covered which I didn't bring up.  I know, that was why I stated I wanted to see the whole thing. Thaks for putting your comments up by the way.

I would agree with you though that we are one of the more forgiving fanbases, having seen the likes of West Ham, Arsenal, Liverpool fans using social media, that's not to say we can't do better as a fanbase though, improve how we interact online. Agreed but football and sport is immotive and it is difficult to see how things change. As @RamNut posted earlier, it has always been this way.

Targeting players wives, we also quickly saw off a few after the Wembley defeat with the likes of Johnny Russell closing his account. Yes the players subject themselves to it, there is no pressure to be part of the circus but social media is a big part of life now, these are young men (mostly), they shouldn't have to distance themselves from what can be and should be an excellent tool to interact with fans. Like you I have never tweeted a player directly, not sure why I would really. I know it happens and it's horrible but social media has opened this door and online abuse is everywhere. I wish there was an answer but it is difficult for me to see it. We have opened the door to pandora's box and how you close it I have no idea.

I must learn how to use the quote button properly.. :angry:

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20 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

 I get what you are saying and in some cases I would agree fully. However, we have a right to question, they have a right of reply. They open the door more times than not and should expect some backlash to contridictions that they put out there.

We do, not for a second suggesting players are immune from criticism, nor would I want to see social media used as an echo chamber of back slaps, at least you tried eh, far from it. Social media and in particular forums are a great way to give feedback to clubs and if you're not happy with what you see, let them know, but in a constructive manner.

The thing that amuses me with this is you say players have a right to reply, I don't see that, if they was to reply on social media in a similar fashion the FA would likely fine them. If they respond on the pitch cupping their ears, finger to the lips or even sticking the middle finger up they get criticised even more, professionals shouldn't behave like that, we pay our money they should take it.

The money argument might hold weight inside the ground where you are reacting on the spot to a game filled with emotion, but online, I can't agree.

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Like you I have never tweeted a player directly, not sure why I would really. I know it happens and it's horrible but social media has opened this door and online abuse is everywhere. I wish there was an answer but it is difficult for me to see it. We have opened the door to pandora's box and how you close it I have no idea.

This is the sad part about it, I don't see what the answer is, as we have seen in this topic already we're not ready to accept it may effect players, it's brushed off, they need to toughen up and we're not the only club. Rather than be the example, we're happy to just float along being sheep, excuse the pun.

Anyhow, there was a lot said on the night, I don't want to bore everyone with my social media gripe, many topics raised which probably deserve more airtime than this one, the academy players being a more interesting point that should be discussed more.

Once it's up I'll stick the link at the top of the topic.

 

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It’s totally right to say that not one academy player at the moment is ready for a start in the Championship with Derby if Derby want promotion.If Rowett said as much I would agree with him as it’s bad enough when we lose or draw with the present experienced players.   I’ve banged on about this and the only one I thought would come through this season was Elsnik. 

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If you want anyone to succeed you’ve got to get behind them and support them.

Of course you’ve got to be honest,but I don’t tell my kids they’re crap,I might make some suggestions but I’m going to put my arm round them and try and drag them up.

It’s pretty clear that some of the players need an arm round them from us.

As a supporter of the club surely we’ve got to help them out,they’re doing it for us as well as themselves.

Our attitude changed a bit when we met JR last year,I’m not going into it again but it give us an insight into how affected the players were by the game and their performance.

Nuge was virtually suicidal because he’d missed a chance(which Messi wouldn’t have scored).

We made a point of giving JR and Nuge a standing ovation ever since(well Nuge☹️)

And yes I might come on and take the piss out of them sometimes but it’s always balanced.

Just get behind the team FFS!

No problem with fair balanced criticism or banter.

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2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well the point might be that they have to be good enough to be given leeway for being young. Don't think it's owt to do with homegrown tbh.

Edit: it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the choice is between gambling on youngsters being good enough or buying success then for most it will come down to wanting success. Even Hughes and Hendrick came in for stick and they've gone on to better things.

And as GR said last night that you have to give them a run of games to see if they are good enough. When have Hanson or Bennett had a decent run of games? Doesn't stop people declaring they aren't good enough for league 1/2 nevermind a team looking to get into the top 6 and promoted to the championship. And that is the point Mel and GR were making, either we give the youth players a run of games and give them some slack if we lose a couple of games or do we carry on the as we are, loaning our better youth players out to get some game time? They opened it up to the floor but no one said what they would prefer.

Did you watch the event? If not I recommend that you do. 

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2 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

I heard him say that they have discussed at length the atmosphere, had meetings about it. Also that some players are affected by the tense atmosphere. 

These players should be given psychological help or swiftly moved on.

The crowd feels tense because we've been here so many times and it hurts that no matter what we do we just can't seem to make it.

The players train for their jobs all week and know what to do. It's in their own mindset whether they can or can't do it. The best out there believe they are in control of their own destiny and make it happen.

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6 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

These players should be given psychological help or swiftly moved on.

The crowd feels tense because we've been here so many times and it hurts that no matter what we do we just can't seem to make it.

The players train for their jobs all week and know what to do. It's in their own mindset whether they can or can't do it. The best out there believe they are in control of their own destiny and make it happen.

There’s an interesting part on this weeks @Steve Bloomer's Washing where they talk to former club psychologist about what they went through under Wassall/Pearson/Mac 2. 

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44 minutes ago, rynny said:

...And that is the point Mel and GR were making, either we give the youth players a run of games and give them some slack if we lose a couple of games or do we carry on the as we are, loaning our better youth players out to get some game time? They opened it up to the floor but no one said what they would prefer.

It's a combination of both. If they're thought to be good enough but can't get lots of game time (in front of, say Vydra) then they need to go out on loan. But surely that choice is down to the manager?

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23 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said:

There’s an interesting part on this weeks @Steve Bloomer's Washing where they talk to former club psychologist about what they went through under Wassall/Pearson/Mac 2. 

Cheers for this @ThePrisoner - we did indeed have a chat with Derby's consultant psychologist, who was recruited by Mel Morris two years ago. The chat is in the podcast below - from 16mins 25 onwards:
 

 

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48 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

These players should be given psychological help or swiftly moved on.

The crowd feels tense because we've been here so many times and it hurts that no matter what we do we just can't seem to make it.

The players train for their jobs all week and know what to do. It's in their own mindset whether they can or can't do it. The best out there believe they are in control of their own destiny and make it happen.

The thing is, if you’re in that camp you won’t switch to the other camp. I trained, qualified and worked in my chosen career path, paid reasonably well for it too. But if someone complained about my efforts when I’d put everything into my work it put a downer on my day or week. I’m human. 

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A snippet from SBW 19:

The psychologist: "The closer you get to that promotion/relegation crunch time, the easier it is to play back foot rather than front foot, the easier it is to play with fear rather than with freedom. The easier it is to strive not to lose rather than to win.

You know those two phrases "striving to win / striving not to lose"  really do open up a different catalogue of pictures in a players mind, open up a set of different behaviours on the pitch and that's what every club has to strive to deal with. The difference it makes when players are playing with fear are they start to play with tunnel vision, so their awareness lessens they don't see the 360 degree view around them. and so they don't see the runs of their team-mates. They don't see the movements of the opposition as sharply as quickly. Their anticipation slows, their decision making suffers.

So it makes an enormous difference to the quality of a players football when they start to play with that edge of fear, when they start to play back foot football. And right now around mid-March that's what starts to happen..."

 

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