Fans Forum 13th March

[Ram8]

Point taken re questions only from ‘ticketed audience’, but my question would not in any way have constituted “slamming the manager and demanding he thinks the way I think” Millenniumram ! 

Should a professional football manager need to be protected from valid questions about his tactical philosophy and recent ‘wavering’ (to put it kindly) performance, where a team, deliberately ‘trimmed’ (with possibly two exceptions) of its creativity and flair, flatters only to deceive at the sharp end of the season ? 

Is a forum (both ‘live’, as last night, or online) merely a managerial ‘love fest’ where supporters exist merely to confirm their blind faith in the manager’s (in GR’s case both unimaginative and inflexible) policy via psychophantic confirmation of his actions ? 

I think not Millenniumram, and if so, then what is the future of constructive criticism, constructive journalism, free speech even ? 

[DRBee]

Really surprised that anybody takes these events seriously. Not watched it yet but the answers given at the last one re transfers etc didn't give informative answers. Of course they are limited as to what information they make public e.g. on FFP , hence the whole pretence these events are more than they are. It's not like Rowett takes responsibility for things anyway, he is an excuses man.

[ColonelBlimp]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Not seen the stream but from the sounds of it we have waived the white flag..

That comment about lowering expectations if we play youth players is complete bollx and exactly what I would expect them to say.

3 mil not enough it’s Derby... Hmmmm probably a bit of poetic license there. Might have been the case but I doubt that was actually said.

Absolutely agree with expectation part. In fact, not only would playing more youth players lower expectations, the negativity would be less as well.

Youth players coming through the system will get more time and be given more leeway and support by the fans as they are 'home grown'

[G STAR RAM]

13 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

Point taken re questions only from ‘ticketed audience’, but my question would not in any way have constituted “slamming the manager and demanding he thinks the way I think” Millenniumram ! 

Should a professional football manager need to be protected from valid questions about his tactical philosophy and recent ‘wavering’ (to put it kindly) performance, where a team, deliberately ‘trimmed’ (with possibly two exceptions) of its creativity and flair, flatters only to deceive at the sharp end of the season ? 

Is a forum (both ‘live’, as last night, or online) merely a managerial ‘love fest’ where supporters exist merely to confirm their blind faith in the manager’s (in GR’s case both unimaginative and inflexible) policy via psychophantic confirmation of his actions ? 

I think not Millenniumram, and if so, then what is the future of constructive criticism, constructive journalism, free speech even ? 

Playing devils advocate here though can you honestly not think what the answers to your questions would be?

I think I can:-

Hughes wanted a shot at the Premier League and we needed money for ins 

Martin doesn't really suit our style of play, has hardly scored in about 18 months and helped free up some room on the wage bill

Bryson went to free up room for the Kieftenbeld transfer that fell through

Elsnik is a young lad who may not be ready for this level yet and we wanted to get a full season experience at a lower level

I'm pretty sure the answers would have been along these lines

Pretty sure that your question was not constructive but more you wanting the manager to know that your philosophy is different to his

 

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, ColonelBlimp said:

Absolutely agree with expectation part. In fact, not only would playing more youth players lower expectations, the negativity would be less as well.

Youth players coming through the system will get more time and be given more leeway and support by the fans as they are 'home grown'

Same can be said for the manager and owner, they're hoping.

[rynny]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Not seen the stream but from the sounds of it we have waived the white flag..

That comment about lowering expectations if we play youth players is complete bollx and exactly what I would expect them to say.

3 mil not enough it’s Derby... Hmmmm probably a bit of poetic license there. Might have been the case but I doubt that was actually said.

 

16 minutes ago, ColonelBlimp said:

Absolutely agree with expectation part. In fact, not only would playing more youth players lower expectations, the negativity would be less as well.

Youth players coming through the system will get more time and be given more leeway and support by the fans as they are 'home grown'

 

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Same can be said for the manager and owner, they're hoping.

The part about the youth players and lowering expectations was more than just playing some, Mel said something along g the lines of if we played a team full of youth players then we as fans need to lower expectations slightly and give leeway to the club when mistakes happen or we lose, but that is not to say we wouldn't want to be challenging for promotion or it wouldn't happen. 

[Ewe Ram]

10 hours ago, RamNut said:

Sorry but i don't accept that.

internet postings prevented us from beating forest? Or Reading? Etc The absense of johnny russell or kacey palmer or vydra etc etc seems a more likely factor.

have nugent's goals dried up because of something posted on the internet? No.

 

 

Then you are part of the problem. If you believe that results happen from simple things then you’re wrong. There’s dozens of things that occur or don’t occur to bring about a result. The fans are a cog in the machine and the negativity is palpable in the ground most games. How do you enjoy performing your work in that kind of environment? Fans need to stop this stupid attitude and start supporting, encouraging and giving the team a push. 

[Millenniumram]

39 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

Point taken re questions only from ‘ticketed audience’, but my question would not in any way have constituted “slamming the manager and demanding he thinks the way I think” Millenniumram ! 

Should a professional football manager need to be protected from valid questions about his tactical philosophy and recent ‘wavering’ (to put it kindly) performance, where a team, deliberately ‘trimmed’ (with possibly two exceptions) of its creativity and flair, flatters only to deceive at the sharp end of the season ? 

Is a forum (both ‘live’, as last night, or online) merely a managerial ‘love fest’ where supporters exist merely to confirm their blind faith in the manager’s (in GR’s case both unimaginative and inflexible) policy via psychophantic confirmation of his actions ? 

I think not Millenniumram, and if so, then what is the future of constructive criticism, constructive journalism, free speech even ? 

The manager isn’t protected from such questions, they were asked last night! I heard lots of questions about different formation, sitting too deep etc. But questions have to be constructive, the question you put forward was leading and strikes me as you trying to get across your annoyance to Rowett, rather than asking how he’s going to about improving the issues you raised, which would be fair enough.

[rynny]

34 minutes ago, ColonelBlimp said:

Absolutely agree with expectation part. In fact, not only would playing more youth players lower expectations, the negativity would be less as well.

Youth players coming through the system will get more time and be given more leeway and support by the fans as they are 'home grown'

Some of the comments on Hanson and Bennett would say that they wouldn't. 

[RamNut]

1 minute ago, Ewe Ram said:

Then you are part of the problem. If you believe that results happen from simple things then you’re wrong. There’s dozens of things that occur or don’t occur to bring about a result. The fans are a cog in the machine and the negativity is palpable in the ground most games. How do you enjoy performing your work in that kind of environment? Fans need to stop this stupid attitude and start supporting, encouraging and giving the team a push. 

I'm not part of the problem madam, because i don't slag the players off. I don't post marks out of ten for each and every player after each match, and subject every one to individual analysis and criticism.

We all have our favourites and our less favoured players. Twas ever thus.

Players get comments from the crowd. We've seen keogh and baird react. I once saw deon burton give the Derby fans the finger. but haranging the players from the sidelines isn't something i do. I tend to agree with craig ramage that players just have to rise above it. Many of the best players i have met have huge egos, and are incredibly conceited. Like brian clough was. They don't give a monkeys what the fans say. I doubt whether Rowett gives a monkeys. Mel does because he isn't so thick skinned, but it didn't stop him marching into the changing rooms to "tear a strip off everyone" after a 0-0 draw. 

 

[David]

19 minutes ago, rynny said:

Some of the comments on Hanson and Bennett would say that they wouldn't. 

Exactly. Hanson a player which we may need to use v Cardiff on Sunday has already come under fire this week on the forum, that's just 1 player where our hand maybe forced.

Instead of getting behind the lad, it's why did we loan out Bryson, why didn't we sign X player in January, this is what Rowett get's for wanting a small squad.

The small squad is what allows the pathway from the academy to the first team, it's what gave Thomas and Bogle the opportunity of being part of the team on Sunday. 

It's a valid question put out there by the club last night and will require some self reflection, myself included, if we want to see more academy players we need to dial it back a bit, allow them the game time to show what they can do as it's all a bit fairy tale land at the minute, throw Timi Max in and watch us go up. A lot of pressure to put on young players shoulders. 

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, rynny said:

Some of the comments on Hanson and Bennett would say that they wouldn't. 

Well the point might be that they have to be good enough to be given leeway for being young. Don't think it's owt to do with homegrown tbh.

Edit: it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the choice is between gambling on youngsters being good enough or buying success then for most it will come down to wanting success. Even Hughes and Hendrick came in for stick and they've gone on to better things.

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

11 hours ago, Pearl Ram said:

But B4 has slated Baird consistently, yet in my mind it hasn’t affected him, he’s been a true pro and his performances have been a credit to him. 

Maybe he’s made of sterner stuff that some of our sensitive souls. 

Yeah, but B4 always called him Bird, so Chris probably hasn't noticed.

[Ewe Ram]

9 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I'm not part of the problem madam, because i don't slag the players off. I don't post marks out of ten for each and every player after each match, and subject every one to individual analysis and criticism.

We all have our favourites and our less favoured players. Twas ever thus.

Players get comments from the crowd. We've seen keogh and baird react. I once saw deon burton give the Derby fans the finger. but haranging the players from the sidelines isn't something i do. I tend to agree with craig ramage that players just have to rise above it. Many of the best players i have met have huge egos, and are incredibly conceited. Like brian clough was. They don't give a monkeys what the fans say. I doubt whether Rowett gives a monkeys. Mel does because he isn't so thick skinned, but it didn't stop him marching into the changing rooms to "tear a strip off everyone" after a 0-0 draw. 

 

Don’t call me ‘madam’ thanks, my gender has nothing to do with my opinions on this and you pointing it out does you no credit, just makes you look like a Neanderthal  

I don’t recall a player massively improving his game because of abuse shouted at him or written about him. But I have seen with my own eyes teams achieve more with the crowd behind them. 

I know GR does care but carry on doubting if it makes you happy  

 

[Angry Ram]

11 hours ago, David said:

Interesting fans forum tonight, no catering questions unfortunately, but one of the best, if not the best to date.

Questions were also asked of us as a fanbase, are we ready to lower expectations if we was to bring through academy players? They don't believe we are, hard to disagree with them to be honest, when you look at the players being suggested we should sign (Ashley Young earlier today) and the reactions to other clubs signings, for example Mitrovic.

 

 

 

One that may ruffle some feathers is both social media and the media over the past couple of months, bottlers, wheels falling off, say it enough times you start to believe it, all it takes is a couple of players to read it and gets in their head.

I have argued this on many occasions, footballer's have the internet, to think what we say online behind keyboards goes unnoticed is very naive. That's not to say we shouldn't be critical ever, just be mindful that it does get seen.

Do you know if they are putting the whole thing up on the website? I am really interested in the context these comments on the academy were made.

If they are as they read in your post, then  what the hell is going on? Are they now admitting that the academy is a failure? Is this another massive u-turn by the club? They have been banging on about 'pathways' and their massive investment in the youth set up.. What are they saying now, it's not working?

Did anyone challenge them on this at the forum? Why does it have to be a compromise? A convenient place to park an excuse.. The bloody fans again!! What are they not doing their jobs? The squads are big enough to accomodate an U23 here and there and give them some playing time in certain games.. We don't even do that, so Gary must think that they are not ready. Why are they not? We have players out on loan who seem to be nearly there. Is he saying putting them in our first team will mean mid table boredom? 

Talk is cheap Gary/Mel, someone should have challenged you on that..

On the social media thing.. Again is this another place to park an excuse.. Look at all you fans putting too much pressure on the players. Well reality check, social media is part of life now. Do they think it is any different at any other club? We are not unique as a fan base, in fact I would argue that we are probably one of the most foregiving.. Players get Twitter accounts, presmably so they can see all the posts saying how great they are. I don't like Twitter, can't get on with it and there are no excuses when it is used poorly.. But THEY let people into their lives via the medium.. They should do that fully in the knowledge that there is a down side to that as well. They always have the opportunity to shut it down.

We all take critism sometimes whether that be at work or at home.. These people arnt that special to be treated differently from you and me. Saying that, nobody should have to put up with what social media has turned into. 

Anyone know why those invites went out so late? I am guessing the uptake was not that great from the initial invites and then just drip fed out after that. 

[RamNut]

In pre-season i posted that it was time to build a new young team around Will Hughes, but if we did then we wouldn't finish in the top 6 and fans would need to accept that.

i think most would. In the event the club signed veterens and went for immediate success.

the club i noted we should watch was Barnsley because they have consciously tried to build a team of young players. But they have struggled. So too norwich. They looked good against us, but are stuck,in mid-table. Nonetheless their fans seem generally supportive because they recognise its a rebuild. 

 

 

[Angry Ram]

41 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

 

The part about the youth players and lowering expectations was more than just playing some, Mel said something along g the lines of if we played a team full of youth players then we as fans need to lower expectations slightly and give leeway to the club when mistakes happen or we lose, but that is not to say we wouldn't want to be challenging for promotion or it wouldn't happen. 

What a strange thing to say, in a history of strange things to say from Morris. He is a man of contradictions..

Who is saying play a team full of youth players? Did he lower expectations and give leeway to other managers we have had for losses or mistakes? Okay to ask us I suppose.

Generally as a club, we cut them a lot of slack if we lose playing decent football. The poo hits the fan when it is absolute dross and we have rolled over. Same at every club. 

[duncanjwitham]

10 minutes ago, David said:

Instead of getting behind the lad, it's why did we loan out Bryson, why didn't we sign X player in January, this is what Rowett get's for wanting a small squad.

The small squad is what allows the pathway from the academy to the first team, it's what gave Thomas and Bogle the opportunity of being part of the team on Sunday. 

For me, the problem is more that we jump on these things (like let's have a small squad) without ever seeming to understand what we need to do to actually make them work.  If we want a small squad then fine, but you can't load up a key area of your team with very old or very injury prone players. And you can't fill your squad with players that are so specialised that they can only perform in one specific position/role/style of play etc. With the squad we have, we are basically locked into playing 4231, and we are utterly reliant on having 2 of Huddlestone, Thorne and Ledley available at all times, and that's a crazy position to put ourselves in.

[RamNut]

9 minutes ago, Ewe Ram said:

Don’t call me ‘madam’ thanks, my gender has nothing to do with my opinions on this and you pointing it out does you no credit, just makes you look like a Neanderthal  

I don’t recall a player massively improving his game because of abuse shouted at him or written about him. But I have seen with my own eyes teams achieve more with the crowd behind them. 

I know GR does care but carry on doubting if it makes you happy  

 

Gary actually explained it but you obviously missed it. In the end you do what you think is right, what you believe in, regardless. 

[Ewe Ram]

6 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Gary actually explained it but you obviously missed it. In the end you do what you think is right, what you believe in, regardless. 

I heard him say that they have discussed at length the atmosphere, had meetings about it. Also that some players are affected by the tense atmosphere.