RoyMac5 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, Mr Giggles said: How much do you reckon players like Martin, Blackman, Butterfield, Bryson, Shackell and Bent are on? Granted that we may be paying a fraction of Bent's and Shackell's wages. He has shipped out high wage players... And brought IN high wage players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: And brought IN high wage players! Yes, whilst not continuously improving the wage Bill, balancing it out. i am sure we will never agree on anything you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, 1977 Ram Raider said: No rush on renewing, haven’t got a cat in hells chance of promotion this season. Still cheaper to renew early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, RamNut said: Did that actually happen? Or is it just a myth. By a few... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 IMO he's no different than any other manager. Does good things and does bad things. Misses things that are glaringly obvious and makes calls nobody expected and pays off. It's always a balancing act and I think he has been naive on some aspects of his interviews and what he plans to do. theres been some scratching head moments on some of his decissions but you can't argue with our league position and with what he started with he's done alright. He could have done better no doubt, missed out on some good cheaper signings that have had a better return than some of his acquisitions. But I have no doubt it could have been a lot worse in some respects. ive seen some of the most boring games of football since he arrived(says something after Clement)? But I've also seen some very good exciting counter attacking football. we need an identity as in we need a strategic plan on what we want to do with the club. We seem to have a very short term view without the balls to back it up. January being the prime example of blowing it when in such a strong position. Signing so many players over 30 has both taken up financial resources and places in the first team squad blocking some of our more developed under 23 players. I thought Mel's vision was to have 3 U23 players in the match day squad? we will never extract any value out of the academy without giving them the opportunities to play. Case in point being playing Anya and allegedly having to pay an extra payment when Luke Thomas could have been in the squad. The frustrating thing is that if you'd asked the question in December of what we need to improve the squad position wise 99% would have said the same 4 positions and none were improved on. Imo we weakened our options in the striker department and on the wings, how did we manage that!! anyway my non negative post that probably comes across as negative is at an end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 24 minutes ago, curtains said: People should remember the hand Rowett was dealt . He is doing very well considering and to keep criticising him over the age of the squad and not introducing the U23s is unfair as he has tried his best to integrate some of them into the first team environment . I didn’t agree with Elsnik going on loan to Swindon but in retrospect he has done well and that can only benefit him in the long run. I don't agree with all Rowetts decisions but I’m mighty glad he is Derby County’s Manager. We are 5th and I hope we get playoffs and I believe we will. I would say some of the older players have a few more seasons in them yet if we are still in the Champioship next season which is not all doom and gloom . Again great, but you are missing the point so you can make it ‘a fan of Rowett’ vs anyone with a criticism. ‘Age’ was bought up not because of the aging squad (although it is a right concern with injuries etc) but because this was meant to be a transitional season to clear a few out and bring in fresh faces. What it turned into was boom or bust, older players who will be on big contracts. That’s not a slight on those players, who are all top champ players, but it’s not what we were really sold and this summer feels like it’ll be a lot of work, no matter the league, to keep getting these players moved on. It’s not if the players can perform, it’s about how long before they pick up injuries and the wage bill that are bigger concerns. Whats the evidence of integrating the u23’s aside putting them on the bench now we have a injury crisis? Again the thought is of a transitional squad, how much first team experience have they had? Rowett’s fine, I don’t think we could get anyone better at the moment and the vast majority support him. It’s just I’m not quite sure he’s given us what we were sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Some people like it,some don’t. Some don’t give a toss.I 99% guarantee everyone supports Derby and 99% of people will not know GR personally. What’s the problem? I think it’s a bit harsh on his trainers mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, TuffLuff said: Again great, but you are missing the point so you can make it ‘a fan of Rowett’ vs anyone with a criticism. ‘Age’ was bought up not because of the aging squad (although it is a right concern with injuries etc) but because this was meant to be a transitional season to clear a few out and bring in fresh faces. What it turned into was boom or bust, older players who will be on big contracts. That’s not a slight on those players, who are all top champ players, but it’s not what we were really sold and this summer feels like it’ll be a lot of work, no matter the league, to keep getting these players moved on. It’s not if the players can perform, it’s about how long before they pick up injuries and the wage bill that are bigger concerns. Whats the evidence of integrating the u23’s aside putting them on the bench now we have a injury crisis? Again the thought is of a transitional squad, how much first team experience have they had? Rowett’s fine, I don’t think we could get anyone better at the moment and the vast majority support him. It’s just I’m not quite sure he’s given us what we were sold. U23 players as any other players need to put themselves in a position where it is impossible not to play them ie they need to stand out in training and U23 games to make the manager think my goodness he’s really got to start in the first team. We don’t have any at the moment as the likes of Thomas etc need a bit more time for that if time is what it takes but like Bennett has found out it isn’t easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: And brought IN high wage players! Indeed, but difference is they’re actually playing. Say both Blackman and Huddlestone have been on big contracts worth 30k (just guesswork), then who’s been more worth the money? Think that’s the difference with the wage bill atm, at least the players are worth it compared to clement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, EnigmaRam said: IMO he's no different than any other manager. Does good things and does bad things. Misses things that are glaringly obvious and makes calls nobody expected and pays off. It's always a balancing act and I think he has been naive on some aspects of his interviews and what he plans to do. theres been some scratching head moments on some of his decissions but you can't argue with our league position and with what he started with he's done alright. He could have done better no doubt, missed out on some good cheaper signings that have had a better return than some of his acquisitions. But I have no doubt it could have been a lot worse in some respects. ive seen some of the most boring games of football since he arrived(says something after Clement)? But I've also seen some very good exciting counter attacking football. we need an identity as in we need a strategic plan on what we want to do with the club. We seem to have a very short term view without the balls to back it up. January being the prime example of blowing it when in such a strong position. Signing so many players over 30 has both taken up financial resources and places in the first team squad blocking some of our more developed under 23 players. I thought Mel's vision was to have 3 U23 players in the match day squad? we will never extract any value out of the academy without giving them the opportunities to play. Case in point being playing Anya and allegedly having to pay an extra payment when Luke Thomas could have been in the squad. The frustrating thing is that if you'd asked the question in December of what we need to improve the squad position wise 99% would have said the same 4 positions and none were improved on. Imo we weakened our options in the striker department and on the wings, how did we manage that!! anyway my non negative post that probably comes across as negative is at an end! What’s the point of playing U23 players just for the sake of it. This really gets my goat. Mel said at the fans forum if we played U23 players at the expense of experienced 1st team players then fans need to lower expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, curtains said: What’s the point of playing U23 players just for the sake of it. This really gets my goat. Mel said at the fans forum if we played U23 players at the expense of experienced 1st team players then fans need to lower expectations Expectations were lowish (according to a site poll). He played Bennett until injured. Is he really the only one of the U23s that could have played a part? It isn't for the sake of it, its to see if they're good enough to step up. He made a choice to buy in experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Expectations were lowish (according to a site poll). He played Bennett until injured. Is he really the only one of the U23s that could have played a part? It isn't for the sake of it, its to see if they're good enough to step up. He made a choice to buy in experience. But you can see if they are good enough in training. Do you think they sit on their hands all day. Bennett isn’t good enough really is he I mean he had to go out on loan before he got injured at Notts County. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 48 minutes ago, curtains said: U23 players as any other players need to put themselves in a position where it is impossible not to play them ie they need to stand out in training and U23 games to make the manager think my goodness he’s really got to start in the first team. We don’t have any at the moment as the likes of Thomas etc need a bit more time for that if time is what it takes but like Bennett has found out it isn’t easy. Ok but it goes back to my original post to you ( as we are going round in circles), how do you as a fan ‘define’ who is/isn’t ready? Even if you are going to games it’s hard as a fan to know what a manager/club is looking for because it’s about much more than standing out over 90 minutes on a pitch. Players like Callum Ball scored plenty in the reserves but never quite made it as a professional. Also Zanzala hasn’t quite progressed as we’d hope despite scoring a lot. All players are different and progress differently, some will respond to having to make that step up but they need to know thy channel is alive so they have a goal to achieve in your set up. Hanson hasn’t signed a contract yet, do you think that might be because his path to first team football has been cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, TuffLuff said: Ok but it goes back to my original post to you ( as we are going round in circles), how do you as a fan ‘define’ who is/isn’t ready? Even if you are going to games it’s hard as a fan to know what a manager/club is looking for because it’s about much more than standing out over 90 minutes on a pitch. Players like Callum Ball scored plenty in the reserves but never quite made it as a professional. Also Zanzala hasn’t quite progressed as we’d hope despite scoring a lot. All players are different and progress differently, some will respond to having to make that step up but they need to know thy channel is alive so they have a goal to achieve in your set up. Hanson hasn’t signed a contract yet, do you think that might be because his path to first team football has been cut? But Hanson has had first team chances and not taken them and he is supposed to be about the best of the crop. I’m not dissing our U23 players far from it and going out on loan is a good development path for them. I wanted Elsnik to have a go in the first team and that’s on record but Gary thought going to Swindon was best for him and who can argue with that particularly if he comes back and gets his chance at Derby next season in the first team squad. Vernam has gone to Grimsby and Lowe went somewhere on loan for experience and they have done ok bu Derby are going for the playoffs with the likes of Vydra etc If Hanson wants to move on well so be it but I’d stay at Derby with Gary Rowett where he can improve as he might just fade away elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, curtains said: But you can see if they are good enough in training. Do you think they sit on their hands all day. Bennett isn’t good enough really is he I mean he had to go out on loan before he got injured at Notts County. Bennett was playing really well at Brentford when he went off injured. He only appeared once since, a little cameo against Manchester United where he didn't look out of place. If we had four wingers tearing up this league then I would be fine with a loan move but there have been matches since New Year when he would have been a great option off the bench, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, curtains said: But Hanson has had first team chances and not taken them and he is supposed to be about the best of the crop. I’m not dissing our U23 players far from it and going out on loan is a good development path for them. I wanted Elsnik to have a go in the first team and that’s on record but Gary thought going to Swindon was best for him and who can argue with that particularly if he comes back and gets his chance at Derby next season in the first team squad. Vernam has gone to Grimsby and Lowe went somewhere on loan for experience and they have done ok bu Derby are going for the playoffs with the likes of Vydra etc If Hanson wants to move on well so be it but I’d stay at Derby with Gary Rowett where he can improve as he might just fade away elsewhere Personally I don't believe Hanson has been given a chance. He has only has 2 consecutive starts, and played less than 30 games for the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, angieram said: Bennett was playing really well at Brentford when he went off injured. He only appeared once since, a little cameo against Manchester United where he didn't look out of place. If we had four wingers tearing up this league then I would be fine with a loan move but there have been matches since New Year when he would have been a great option off the bench, in my opinion. Trust me I’ve seen enough him and I mean an awful lot of him to know he’s nowhere near the level of the likes of Lawrence etc. But everybody is entitled an opinion and Bennett is a strange one for me and his career has never taken off. Good luck to the lad but I’m happy with the first team selections that Gary Rowett makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, rynny said: Personally I don't believe Hanson has been given a chance. He has only has 2 consecutive starts, and played less than 30 games for the first team. Hanson always looks like he could make it but of course Neil Warnock thought he would be a step down from Huddlestone lol. Am I being facetious mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, curtains said: But Hanson has had first team chances and not taken them and he is supposed to be about the best of the crop. I’m not dissing our U23 players far from it and going out on loan is a good development path for them. I wanted Elsnik to have a go in the first team and that’s on record but Gary thought going to Swindon was best for him and who can argue with that particularly if he comes back and gets his chance at Derby next season in the first team squad. Vernam has gone to Grimsby and Lowe went somewhere on loan for experience and they have done ok bu Derby are going for the playoffs with the likes of Vydra etc If Hanson wants to move on well so be it but I’d stay at Derby with Gary Rowett where he can improve as he might just fade away elsewhere You are evading...how do you as a fan define who’s good enough and who isn’t? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: You are evading...how do you as a fan define who’s good enough and who isn’t? I watch them play. Been to more U23 games than you have had hot dinners lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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