Rowett

[archied]

39 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I think we have seen little evidence of a real change in tactics from Gary...it's essentially the same format each week with alterations of staff...

This is the way he organised his team's at Birmingham and Burton so I can't see why he's going to change it anything soon....that's the way Gary likes to play.

If football improved and we played better,I'd be onboard the rowett fun bus but not just because he used to play for us and and gets wound up at forest matches.

 

That’s fair enough kash but the burton and Birmingham jobs were very much having to over achieve with very limited finances and results were everything ,he’s been at derby for one year now with the remit to rebuild clearly with the onus being on getting the finances under control with ffp clearly an issue so reduced wage bill ,made a profit on transfers and got us as high as 2nd with a real shot at play offs , I think it’s also clear that he is now experiencing very different pressures / expectations in terms of not only getting results but pressure to play a certain way too , we had players who had been given very big wages to keep them at the club to gain promotion but it had not happened and brought in players on big wages too , my bet is the priority at the club is now very much to get promotion for prem money windfall but on the smallest outlay/ financial risk possible so for me I will wait till he has either had time to build his team on a shoe string or been given big bucks to spend before I make a full judgement on him 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

6 minutes ago, archied said:

That’s fair enough kash but the burton and Birmingham jobs were very much having to over achieve with very limited finances and results were everything ,he’s been at derby for one year now with the remit to rebuild clearly with the onus being on getting the finances under control with ffp clearly an issue so reduced wage bill ,made a profit on transfers and got us as high as 2nd with a real shot at play offs , I think it’s also clear that he is now experiencing very different pressures / expectations in terms of not only getting results but pressure to play a certain way too , we had players who had been given very big wages to keep them at the club to gain promotion but it had not happened and brought in players on big wages too , my bet is the priority at the club is now very much to get promotion for prem money windfall but on the smallest outlay/ financial risk possible so for me I will wait till he has either had time to build his team on a shoe string or been given big bucks to spend before I make a full judgement on him 

I'm not sure why we are suddenly using ffp to explain our current woes....

I haven't seen any concrete evidence of anything actually from the club to substantiate that we needed to make big sales of our team to meet it.....

It's more likely that Gary wanted rid of players so he could bring in his own preferences....sadly,esp in the forward areas,this hasn't been entirely successful and if you look at Lawrence's case,we spent big for little return to date......

Gary spent the money from a prolific striker in ince on what has been anything but.

He then spent Martin's loan money on jerome who has been arguably even less effective.

I don't think we need to make excuses for Gary this season...he has in fact had a season and a half to make the changes he saw fit,more than many other managers in the championship.

 

[Carnero]

20 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

he has in fact had a season and a half to make the changes he saw fit,more than many other managers in the championship.

46 games = "a season and a half"?

Righto.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

14 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said:

46 games = "a season and a half"?

Righto.

[Carnero]

16 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Well if we're happy to just post fake news to suit our argument then us "Rowett fanboys" will point you to the 3 premier league trophy's that we've won in Rowett's "season and a half" in charge.

Suck on that 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

19 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said:

Well if we're happy to just post fake news to suit our argument then us "Rowett fanboys" will point you to the 3 premier league trophy's that we've won in Rowett's "season and a half" in charge.

Suck on that 

They are the only ones we will win under rowett,imaginary or otherwise ?

[archied]

1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I'm not sure why we are suddenly using ffp to explain our current woes....

I haven't seen any concrete evidence of anything actually from the club to substantiate that we needed to make big sales of our team to meet it.....

It's more likely that Gary wanted rid of players so he could bring in his own preferences....sadly,esp in the forward areas,this hasn't been entirely successful and if you look at Lawrence's case,we spent big for little return to date......

Gary spent the money from a prolific striker in ince on what has been anything but.

He then spent Martin's loan money on jerome who has been arguably even less effective.

I don't think we need to make excuses for Gary this season...he has in fact had a season and a half to make the changes he saw fit,more than many other managers in the championship.

 

There’s lots of noises comming from the club that ffp is an issue now and moving forward next season ,they say we are inside it but its been clear outs have to happen before ins and we have a fair few players on big wages that we can’t shift , player ins and outs we can argue about all day as it’s opinions but surely you must accept that apart from 46 games at derby the yardstick your using to make a permanent judgement on rowett and his style is from burton and Brum where the job was over achieve on underspend ?

Not really fair kash, it’s like judging Mac only on his time at forest or england

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

5 minutes ago, archied said:

There’s lots of noises comming from the club that ffp is an issue now and moving forward next season ,they say we are inside it but its been clear outs have to happen before ins and we have a fair few players on big wages that we can’t shift , player ins and outs we can argue about all day as it’s opinions but surely you must accept that apart from 46 games at derby the yardstick your using to make a permanent judgement on rowett and his style is from burton and Brum where the job was over achieve on underspend ?

Not really fair kash, it’s like judging Mac only on his time at forest or england

I don't think there is anything to judge a football manager on other than their past and present managing?????

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I don't think there is anything to judge a football manager on other than their past and present managing?????

True.

There is no way money is too tight to mention if Rowett chose to sign Jerome, paying a transfer fee and high wages! I imagine it's much more to do with the 'pyramidal' wages structure and only having a limited number of high earners. Plus getting rid of the players Rowett so obviously doesn't want. Not to mention being allowed to splash a large quantity of cash on Lawrence. Nothing to do with FFP.

[archied]

1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I don't think there is anything to judge a football manager on other than their past and present managing?????

Spot on but there’s factors that have to be taken into account surely ? Also there has to be some store put in the amount of time they have been doing the job? Good managers can learn,change and evolve , rowett may turn out to be one of those ,, he may turn out not to be ,my problem is people pegging him at this stage when that’s impossible to do with the slightest degree of certainty,

i just really don’t understand it ,other than he replaced Mac and moved on / allowed to move on some fan favs and will not ever be accepted or judged fairly by some no matter what he does

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, archied said:

i just really don’t understand it ,other than he replaced Mac and moved on / allowed to move on some fan favs and will not ever be accepted or judged fairly by some no matter what he does

So it's not possible to judge him on the football he gets Derby to play, the players he buys, the things he says and doesn't do?

[archied]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So it's not possible to judge him on the football he gets Derby to play, the players he buys, the things he says and doesn't do?

No point me trying to talk football with you Roy ,you’ve already told me that even if rowett got us promoted he s not good enough for the prem and all I see is a bloke so obsessed with rowett that it positively cheers him up if derby don’t win 

[Sparkle]

3 minutes ago, archied said:

No point me trying to talk football with you Roy ,you’ve already told me that even if rowett got us promoted he s not good enough for the prem and all I see is a bloke so obsessed with rowett that it positively cheers him up if derby don’t win 

Half the managers in the premiership are not good enough for the premiership- but then they get sacked and then given another premiership job ! Bizarre 

[RoyMac5]

21 minutes ago, archied said:

No point me trying to talk football with you Roy ,you’ve already told me that even if rowett got us promoted he s not good enough for the prem and all I see is a bloke so obsessed with rowett that it positively cheers him up if derby don’t win 

Then if that's all you see you need to take your blinkers off! How is my opinion on Rowett if he got us to the Prem affecting the way he manages the team? Is it some sort of negative telepathy I'm beaming towards him, cos us fans are to blame?! You really crack me up archied.

[Carnero]

19 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Half the managers in the premiership are not good enough for the premiership- but then they get sacked and then given another premiership job ! Bizarre 

Ahh but they have "premier league experience" you see. It's vital to appoint a manager with experience of losing in the premier league if you're a club that loses a lot in the premier league. So they say.

[archied]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Then if that's all you see you need to take your blinkers off! How is my opinion on Rowett if he got us to the Prem affecting the way he manages the team? Is it some sort of negative telepathy I'm beaming towards him, cos us fans are to blame?! You really crack me up archied.

Don’t use up all those smiley imogis Roy ,chances are we may lose or not win some games before the season is over

[Sparkle]

15 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said:

Ahh but they have "premier league experience" you see. It's vital to appoint a manager with experience of losing in the premier league if you're a club that loses a lot in the premier league. So they say.

All true - I just can’t work out why nobody gave Billy Davies and Paul Jewell a job again in the premiership after they helped us 

[superfit]

Extract from an interview with Gary in the Guardian newspaper at the beginning of the season.

'At Birmingham his style of play was the biggest criticism of his tenure but he (Gary) maintains that it was a necessity' 

''We had Demarai Gray, Clayton Donaldson and David Cotterill as our front 3. Loads of pace, loads of energy, we decided to give them as much space as possible so we could counterattack. We were physical but we had to get results.'' 

'At Derby it's possesion based but we want to speed that up a bit.' 

I've always felt I want to be flexible, you want to access things and make different decisions rather than thinking you've got to do this every place you ever go. One size doesn't fit all, it's about playing in a way that gets the best from players at your disposal.'' 

 

So despite giving a good interview and talking a good game it seems that Gary hasn't really changed? 

Style of play is still a criticism

Many supporters think there is too much space between midfield and forwards.

So has Gary become more ''flexible'' and realised ''one size doesn't fit all'' ? 

And did Gary try and get the best out of players at his ''disposal'' like Martin, Bryson, Christie and Hughes?   

 

     

      

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, archied said:

Spot on but there’s factors that have to be taken into account surely ? Also there has to be some store put in the amount of time they have been doing the job? Good managers can learn,change and evolve , rowett may turn out to be one of those ,, he may turn out not to be ,my problem is people pegging him at this stage when that’s impossible to do with the slightest degree of certainty,

i just really don’t understand it ,other than he replaced Mac and moved on / allowed to move on some fan favs and will not ever be accepted or judged fairly by some no matter what he does

Not liking rowett goes against my grain.

He is a past semi hero of Derby,he has Derby roots and still lives here.

But...I really,really dislike the football we play.

I've been to more matches than usual this year purely due to my shift pattern aligning better than normal but almost everything I've seen has been pretty painful to watch with rare glimpses of genuine talent like vydra and Palmer(plus Nugent earlier in the season) to slightly brighten things up.

I just don't see any progress in the squad....in fact,Gary seems to have made some players worse(Nugent, Lawrence...both of whom I admire for their skills normally).Our tactics in matches lately are all over the shop.

So that's pretty much why I don't have much time for GR at the minute,it's not the players,they do as they are told and Mel is genuinely trying to do what's best for the club...(he must be inwardly wondering what he had to do to get us up).

Gary just doesn't seem to be learning or adapting.

If all of this changes,he finds a better way to play and we come good then great,I'll hold my hands up but it's taking a very long time for it to happen....wassell was given about 3 games before everyone was calling for his head but with some old sage advice quickly learnt and adapted.

Why should Gary get so much slack?

(Plus,he really does talk a load of b*******)

 

 

 

 

[archied]

2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Not liking rowett goes against my grain.

He is a past semi hero of Derby,he has Derby roots and still lives here.

But...I really,really dislike the football we play.

I've been to more matches than usual this year purely due to my shift pattern aligning better than normal but almost everything I've seen has been pretty painful to watch with rare glimpses of genuine talent like vydra and Palmer(plus Nugent earlier in the season) to slightly brighten things up.

I just don't see any progress in the squad....in fact,Gary seems to have made some players worse(Nugent, Lawrence...both of whom I admire for their skills normally).Our tactics in matches lately are all over the shop.

So that's pretty much why I don't have much time for GR at the minute,it's not the players,they do as they are told and Mel is genuinely trying to do what's best for the club...(he must be inwardly wondering what he had to do to get us up).

Gary just doesn't seem to be learning or adapting.

If all of this changes,he finds a better way to play and we come good then great,I'll hold my hands up but it's taking a very long time for it to happen....wassell was given about 3 games before everyone was calling for his head but with some old sage advice quickly learnt and adapted.

Why should Gary get so much slack?

 

 

 

 

Good enough for me kash ,your post is your opinion at this time but also shows that opinion is open to change if you thought things were changing more to your liking under rowett ,, i don’t personally think things are as bad under rowett at this stage in his tenure and am ok giving him a bit more slack than you at this point ,truth is I reckon we both don’t really care who’s in charge as long as derby succeed ,, reckon we have a bit more bickering/ debating to go before the end of rowetts time with us?