GB SPORTS Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: Took about 7/8 posts of this thread to realise just how many Neanderthals support our club. The same people who (rightly) won’t let you forget about those who lost their lives for us to live in a free country are the same who jump on anyone who dares exercise that freedom! The guy would be an excellent addition if we get him in on the right deal... offers something different to what we have on the wings at the moment. Ilson you miss the point, I don't disagree that he has the right to say what he says. I just vehemently disagree with his take on Anglo/Irish history. This guy just doesn't fit with the Club's culture and traditions. As Voltaire was originally misquoted " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," The employment of McClean would make me seriously question my 50 year old support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sat Atwal Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, SuperDerbySuperRams said: FYI, loan offer supposedly rejected, and John Percy (ever reliable) stated that West Brom wanted 8m from Burnley earlier in the window. Have we got anywhere near that? Hello mate. So they willing to do a deal, but only a perm deal and for around the 8m figure? No deal for me then if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 20 minutes ago, ONEPIEGON said: Sorry mafia, This is very personal to some of us and the support of any terrorist organisation that has killed and maimed your friends and in the Derby support, their family is still unacceptable. To be honest I don't really give a stuff that he won't wear a poppy, i'd rather he wouldn't if he doesn't believe in it. What I absolutely object to is the hate and vitriol he spouts and because he is in the public eye it gets listened to. The army were sent into Ulster in 1969 to protect McClean types and their beliefs. They were repaid for their protection by being shot at and blown to pieces. If this story is remotely true then our great football club which traditionally has had close links to the army will have gone backwards in my eyes. I have 50 year love of Derby County and this will be greatly diminished by employing the person we are talking about. Not read or heard the "hate and vitriol he spouts" so any examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Posh Ram said: The Kaiser wanted to greatly expand the German Empire, we fought him to restrain the growth of said empire. Just because they weren't evil like the Nazis doesn't mean they didn't pose a threat to freedom of speech and a desire to conquer other peoples. Hmmm, so empires are bad then? Now who else had a much larger empire at that time, containing far more conquered nations? As for McClean, I've seen him play many times and he's a frustrating player most of the time to be honest, but he is always a nuisance for the opposition and he can deliver a quality cross. He would probably do well in the Championship. Redefines 100% effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanoakaram4life Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, SuperDerbySuperRams said: FYI, loan offer supposedly rejected, and John Percy (ever reliable) stated that West Brom wanted 8m from Burnley earlier in the window. Have we got anywhere near that? Players fall out of favour, he's not had the best of years at WBA I can see him coming to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I don't have an issue with his political beliefs; that's up to him. He hasn't committed a crime or done anything wrong other than to state his beliefs. Some of the stuff here I've read is garbage. He hasn't to my knowledge - as some on here have made very poor comparisons to - actively wished murder and death on people, or attacked anyone's family. He has gone on record saying that his refusal to wear a poppy is not about the two World Wars, and that if the poppy commemorated just them, he would wear it. Too much misinformation and hypocrisy on here. But I guess that's social media for you. Anyway, if the manager thinks he will improve us and will strengthen our case for promotion, then go for it. I'd be happy to see him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 A no from me ! Better options out there both footballing wise and human being wise. I think it's hypocritical how someone can be against certain religious/political views yet still lives in the country and takes the wealth from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I don't particularly want him at Derby, simply cos of his lack of consistent performances over the years. Couldn't careless about his political views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Gypsy Ram said: We are all forgetting the crucial question here! Is he over 33 and for the first team, or one for the future and the U23s? Why the hate @Charlie Dram couldn't give a fraak who he bows down to, as long as its not isis or the Nazis. And I'm a poppy supporter. Can we actually talk about his football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, SuperDerbySuperRams said: FYI, loan offer supposedly rejected, and John Percy (ever reliable) stated that West Brom wanted 8m from Burnley earlier in the window. Have we got anywhere near that? Eight million feels a lot, he was signed for £1.5 million and hasn't really set the PL alight. I can see why they wanted to charge Burnley that, a fellow PL rival. But what a club wants and what it gets are normally some way apart. I guess we would be pinning our hopes on a new manager coming in, WBA starting to play well and him not being in Pardew's immediate plans. The last three PL games he's either started (once) or been on the bench (coming on in one of those two), which suggests he's wanted. Unused sub at Liverpool yesterday. Hard one to call if he feels he wants regular first team football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnstile Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Not interestred in his views,just don't think he's good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB SPORTS Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 19 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Not read or heard the "hate and vitriol he spouts" so any examples? Standing shoulder to shoulder with Martin McGuiness calling for a united Ireland for a start. No problem with him saying it himself just standing next to a convicted terrorist and saying it. And don't give me the McGuiness man of peace statement it is easy to start the peace when you started the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said: Err...please explain?????????? In a roundabout way they did. You have to understand the pre-WW1 Europe of competing empires, of which Austria was one and Russia another. They had competing interests in the Balkans, which were mostly in the hands of the Austro-Hungarian empire. One of Russia's tactics was to support nationalist agitators in the region who wanted to free their countries. One such group assassinated Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand (of the ruling Hapsburg dynasty). What followed was a round a round of politics, diplomacy, and power seeking - Europe at that point was a tinder box, the assassination was the spark - so in that sense the Russian's started WW1. Although it's probably the case that the war would have happened on another diplomatic spark at some point if it hadn't been that one. However, there was a strong alliance between the Austro-Hungarian Empire and newly nationalised Germany. Germany being surrounded by France on one side and Russian spheres of influence on the other but with the worlds best army and leading industry saw a way to improve her position through aggression, and decided to take her chance (through this political turmoil started by the assassination). For an interesting perspective on how the first world war started, you could do a lot worse than have a look at the game Diplomacy (link below) where the players get to run one of Europe's empires in 1901. http://www.playdiplomacy.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: In a roundabout way they did. You have to understand the pre-WW1 Europe of competing empires, of which Austria was one and Russia another. They had competing interests in the Balkans, which were mostly in the hands of the Austro-Hungarian empire. One of Russia's tactics was to support nationalist agitators in the region who wanted to free their countries. One such group assassinated Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand (of the ruling Hapsburg dynasty). What followed was a round a round of politics, diplomacy, and power seeking - Europe at that point was a tinder box, the assassination was the spark - so in that sense the Russian's started WW1. Although it's probably the case that the war would have happened on another diplomatic spark at some point if it hadn't been that one. However, there was a strong alliance between the Austro-Hungarian Empire and newly nationalised Germany. Germany being surrounded by France on one side and Russian spheres of influence on the other but with the worlds best army and leading industry saw a way to improve her position through aggression, and decided to take her chance (through this political turmoil started by the assassination). For an interesting perspective on how the first world war started, you could do a lot worse than have a look at the game Diplomacy (link below) where the players get to run one of Europe's empires in 1901. http://www.playdiplomacy.com/ Have a read of this from 10 leading historians, might make it a bit clearer for you. None of them really blame Russia. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26048324 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said: Have a read of this from 10 leading historians, might make it a bit clearer for you. None of them really blame Russia. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26048324 Neither did I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 26 minutes ago, ONEPIEGON said: Ilson you miss the point, I don't disagree that he has the right to say what he says. I just vehemently disagree with his take on Anglo/Irish history. This guy just doesn't fit with the Club's culture and traditions. As Voltaire was originally misquoted " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," The employment of McClean would make me seriously question my 50 year old support. I don’t miss the point because for every one of you who may disagree for intelligent reasons (reasons I’d disagree with mind) there’s 10 more mindless individuals who want blood just because of this false patriotism. The fact of the matter is that i know I’d feel the same disdain towards the forces if I’d grown up where innocent civilians had been killed by them and I’d hazard a guess that most people condemning him would too if they’d been brought up in his home town... even if they won’t admit it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68 Guns Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, Gypsy Ram said: Why the hate @Charlie Dram couldn't give a fraak who he bows down to, as long as its not isis or the Nazis. And I'm a poppy supporter. Can we actually talk about his football? Err. Sorry. What hate is that. You been on the sauce fella? Think you've confused your self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philc130 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 After serving 20 years in the military I can see people’s point from a patriotic stance . However I served in the military to protect freedom and its James Mclean’s Freedom to choose if he wants to wear a poppy or want a United Ireland . It’s his point of view fair play to him I say to have the courage to speak out . I wouldn’t probably speak to him if I met him in the street and I would suggest he would not speak to me if he knew my back ground . The most important thing I have learnt his let people live by what they believe do not exclude anybody until they have gone from a peaceful path then let the dogs loose. if Gary Rowett believes James McLean will get us promoted who am I to try to exclude him from playing for the Rams when all he has done is peacefully protest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan O'Meara Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 7 hours ago, Nuwtfly said: Nixon tweeting that, then a couple of hours suddenly tweeting all the updates about the move like he's itk. Definite fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB SPORTS Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: I don’t miss the point because for every one of you who may disagree for intelligent reasons (reasons I’d disagree with mind) there’s 10 more mindless individuals who want blood just because of this false patriotism. The fact of the matter is that i know I’d feel the same disdain towards the forces if I’d grown up where innocent civilians had been killed by them and I’d hazard a guess that most people condemning him would too if they’d been brought up in his home town... even if they won’t admit it! Ilson, Who wants blood? I have not seen anyone on here who has said that. I agree that some opinions on both sides of the argument(s) are less thought through. But you immediately insulted those by calling them Neanderthal. My issue is that he supports an organisation who in my lifetime tried to kill my family and friends who were sent to protect his family and friends and repaid them in that way. I understand probably more than most that Bloody Sunday was a travesty and blight on the British Army, but that is no reason to forget Warrenpoint or the Birmingham pub bombings or Woolwich Barracks or Omagh or Eniskillen or even the killing of Michael Newman in 1992 in our own great city. I don't see McClean as the enemy I just see him as very undesirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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