Millwall F.C. v Derby County F.C.

[Mistaram]

35 minutes ago, ttkk said:

Not sure you could say the club are scum. Millwall FC pioneered community work in this country, way, way before it was seen as good for branding & public profile - starting in the early 1980s. For example, they opened a creche, ran (& still run), workshops to help young adults in the area apply for jobs & gain skills, have clubs for isolated members of the local community (such as the elderly or disabled), visit schools and run even more workshops for educating young people about knife and gun crime, open the club facilities up to local charities for free, run a food-bank for local people, have taken part and pioneered so many anti-racism initiatives that they are the highest ranked club in the Kick-Out rankings & have made the fact that Millwall have the highest ratio of ethnic minority season ticket holders outside PL possible.  Millwall also pioneered the promotion of women and girl's football in the UK, starting (again) way back before it was seen as 'good' for the brand, by becoming the first professional football club in UK to affiliate with a female team (Millwall Lionesses) in 1985 and the first to open and run a centre of excellence for female players. The club has also pioneered the sugar tax in the last year or so, donating all profits (the tax) from sugary items to local schools and education projects. 

People scoffed when Millwall won the EFL'Family club of the year' award, but without realising that Millwall put more into their community in terms of ratio of actual income than any other football club in the country. Lewisham council said that Millwall save them over £7m a year, by stepping in and providing these workshops, projects and facilities. 

 

As for us fans, yes, we do some have some bad apples - the club is based in inner-city London, so hardly a surprise. However, we have many diamonds. Currently Sunderland, West Ham and Leeds United fans will attest to this; as Millwall fans raised £2,800 for Bradley Lowery Foundation with an independent fund raiser; have got the club to promote the cause of Isla Caton, a 3yr old girl West Ham fan with neuroblastoma in the matchday programme and raised funds for her treatment at home games; and in the last week the 1,400 fans who went to Elland Road have decided to donate their refunds (Leeds broke rules in charging us more that the top price home end ticket) to the fund set up for Leeds fan Toby Nye, a 4 year old also fighting neuroblastoma. Furthermore, the club turned a very good offer from a pay-day loan company a few years back to sponsor us; instead listening to fans in choosing to donate the equivalent fee to the Prostate Cancer charity, adorning our shirts with their logo and fan groups raising thousands at home games. Millwall also raised thousands for Headley Court - a special rehabilitation centre for injured servicemen and servicewomen, plus produced a special kit to raise awareness and more money. The British Legion also wrote to Millwall thanking fans for their huge contribution at a home game collection, saying that the 12,000 Millwall fans in attendance raised more money than at any other club in the country, including the 75,000 at Old Trafford. 

I would argue that the good far outweighs the bad at Millwall. I see us as a kind of rough school on a council estate, where the staff really care & the majority of kids are decent - but it's always the few bad ones that make the headlines and keep the bad reputation going for outsiders. 

trick.  Think you forgot to mention 1985 Millwall fans riot after being beaten by Luton 81 serious injury's plus 31 police 

1994 Millwall riot in play off semi final defeat to Derby storming the field of play to attack Derby players 

[Dimmu]

Hard days these. You have Millwall spin doctor giving fake news and trolling our nice & gullible members here...

Just kidding, @ttkk. Thanks for the input!

 

I remember going to Millwall - Coventry match years ago and managed to get into a fight... I know I must take some of the blame as I was neutral and walking. That's my fond memories of those bad apples.

Hope we beat them properly.

[ttkk]

55 minutes ago, Mistaram said:

trick.  Think you forgot to mention 1985 Millwall fans riot after being beaten by Luton 81 serious injury's plus 31 police 

1994 Millwall riot in play off semi final defeat to Derby storming the field of play to attack Derby players 

Crikey, the world was a very different place back then.

I was 5 in 1985. My granddad and uncle went to that Luton game. They (and Danny Baker) say the overcrowding in the away end was horrific that night. That's no excuse for the violence that erupted, as it was brewing anyway (this was the height of football hooliganism after all), but they are glad the hooligans did smash down the gates, as it was very much a Hillsborough (pre Hillsborough)  disaster in waiting. 

1994 was awful, remember it well. But, it was nearly a quarter of a century ago now.

Do you remind young Germans of what their forefathers did when you meet them? I mean where is the cut off point? As it's interesting that the tabloid press have been reduced to labelling us 'scum' for simply going onto a pitch in celebration these days! Perhaps showing how much times have changed. 

Look, I can see you won't be convinved whatever I say. That's fine. I don't define myself by the football club I happen to support through family and basic geography (a mile further west I could be a Chelsea fan / 2 or 3 miles further south a Palace fan!), it' just one facet of my personality. It's just a bit sad (in every sense of the word) that you judge me & about 45,000 other people on it.

I must admit football forums can be quite depressing really - for all the good, interesting people, there is always a few difficult personalities shall we politely say.

[Rab a dab doo]

Its a case of don't shoot the messenger. 

[ColonelBlimp]

Well done @ttkk very interesting, very informative, very well written and might just help to change a few minds.

 

Personally, even though i was born near Ilford and Leyton Orient were my closest club, I've always suspected Millwall get a bum deal from the media for historical reasons. 

It's a shame some people will never change their minds, even when presented with evidence.

 

I don't remember any Leeds fans coming on here with the same attitude you have so fair play.

[Doodle]

8 hours ago, ttkk said:

Hello again.

 

Just a few things... 'New' Den? Never, ever been called that. It was given the name New London Stadium when it was a building project, but became officially The Den when we moved in & the old place was knocked down. Besides, the place is 25 years old now & rusting to ****! 

 

As for the East End v south London thing. Millwall have a foot in both camps. Millwall’s roots are in the very heart of the old East End, amongst the hustle and bustle of Victorian London’s docks.  Founded as Millwall Rovers by tin-smiths working at the J.T. Morton cannery and preserve factory near Millwall Dock in 1885 - despite what Eastenders try to imp;y, Millwall are the original & only professional football club to play in what most people would classify as the 'proper' East End. West Ham United have always played in east London.

When space ran out on the Isle of Dogs we moved just over the river to New Cross in 1910. However, this was still considered 'docklands' London, what with the Surrey Commercial Docks just down the road. In fact, on moving Millwall began to attract support from the docker communities on both sides of the river; the Football League even agreed to allow Millwall games to kick-off at 3:15pm to allow dockers to finish their Saturday shifts and make the games on time right into the 1960s. Millwall have always been considered the team of 'docklands' London & when the docks were thriving Millwall were actually one of the best supported clubs in the country between the wars, with crowds of 25-35,000 for 2nd and 3rd tier football, and 40-50,000 for derbies and big cup matches.

Because of our appalling reputation and lack of any sustained success Millwall's support is pretty 'pure' - ie passed down through the generations, and through local neighbourhoods - we don't really attract the new breed of football fans, they tend to go to Palace, Chelsea or Charlton. Therefore, if you speak to Millwall fans you can see that about 70% of our support has roots in SE London and 30% in the old East End (such as Bob Crow, Darren Purse). Or, like Danny Baker in both - his dad was from Millwall E14, mum from just over the river, where he grew up. 

In essence, I would say a more accurate description of Millwall's character is a London docklands club - rather than south London (we are very different to Palace & Charlton) or pure East End. 

Puts boycies piss poor effort to shame. 

[Doodle]

28 minutes ago, ttkk said:

Crikey, the world was a very different place back then.

I was 5 in 1985. My granddad and uncle went to that Luton game. They (and Danny Baker) say the overcrowding in the away end was horrific that night. That's no excuse for the violence that erupted, as it was brewing anyway (this was the height of football hooliganism after all), but they are glad the hooligans did smash down the gates, as it was very much a Hillsborough (pre Hillsborough)  disaster in waiting. 

1994 was awful, remember it well. But, it was nearly a quarter of a century ago now.

Do you remind young Germans of what their forefathers did when you meet them? I mean where is the cut off point? As it's interesting that the tabloid press have been reduced to labelling us 'scum' for simply going onto a pitch in celebration these days! Perhaps showing how much times have changed. 

Look, I can see you won't be convinved whatever I say. That's fine. I don't define myself by the football club I happen to support through family and basic geography (a mile further west I could be a Chelsea fan / 2 or 3 miles further south a Palace fan!), it' just one facet of my personality. It's just a bit sad (in every sense of the word) that you judge me & about 45,000 other people on it.

I must admit football forums can be quite depressing really - for all the good, interesting people, there is always a few difficult personalities shall we politely say.

I’ve found your posts very insightful and thanks for taking the time to write them. You will never escape the past reputation unfortunately, any newspaper will tell you bad news sells better than good.  I do think you may be slightly underestimating the bad a little. A very good friend of mine sent me a video of your fans at Rotherham last year. Climbing over the netting to invade the family stand. Ok only about an 100 or so. But that’s good enough for your entire fan base to damned again for another decade. It’s never going to leave you I’m afraid 

[SKRam]

1 hour ago, ttkk said:

Crikey, the world was a very different place back then.

I was 5 in 1985. My granddad and uncle went to that Luton game. They (and Danny Baker) say the overcrowding in the away end was horrific that night. That's no excuse for the violence that erupted, as it was brewing anyway (this was the height of football hooliganism after all), but they are glad the hooligans did smash down the gates, as it was very much a Hillsborough (pre Hillsborough)  disaster in waiting. 

1994 was awful, remember it well. But, it was nearly a quarter of a century ago now.

Do you remind young Germans of what their forefathers did when you meet them? I mean where is the cut off point? As it's interesting that the tabloid press have been reduced to labelling us 'scum' for simply going onto a pitch in celebration these days! Perhaps showing how much times have changed. 

Look, I can see you won't be convinved whatever I say. That's fine. I don't define myself by the football club I happen to support through family and basic geography (a mile further west I could be a Chelsea fan / 2 or 3 miles further south a Palace fan!), it' just one facet of my personality. It's just a bit sad (in every sense of the word) that you judge me & about 45,000 other people on it.

I must admit football forums can be quite depressing really - for all the good, interesting people, there is always a few difficult personalities shall we politely say.

At least on another note.... you now have Mr Shackell on your books for the rest of the season 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, Doodle said:

Puts boycies piss poor effort to shame. 

Might have been longer but was basically backing him up! 

[Mistaram]

2 hours ago, ttkk said:

Crikey, the world was a very different place back then.

I was 5 in 1985. My granddad and uncle went to that Luton game. They (and Danny Baker) say the overcrowding in the away end was horrific that night. That's no excuse for the violence that erupted, as it was brewing anyway (this was the height of football hooliganism after all), but they are glad the hooligans did smash down the gates, as it was very much a Hillsborough (pre Hillsborough)  disaster in waiting. 

1994 was awful, remember it well. But, it was nearly a quarter of a century ago now.

Do you remind young Germans of what their forefathers did when you meet them? I mean where is the cut off point? As it's interesting that the tabloid press have been reduced to labelling us 'scum' for simply going onto a pitch in celebration these days! Perhaps showing how much times have changed. 

Look, I can see you won't be convinved whatever I say. That's fine. I don't define myself by the football club I happen to support through family and basic geography (a mile further west I could be a Chelsea fan / 2 or 3 miles further south a Palace fan!), it' just one facet of my personality. It's just a bit sad (in every sense of the word) that you judge me & about 45,000 other people on it.

I must admit football forums can be quite depressing really - for all the good, interesting people, there is always a few difficult personalities shall we politely say.

I've not judge you at all just pointed out that you've only written the positive things about your club You certainly don't need to go years to see how some of your fans behave just nip on Y/tube and you will see it still happening in 2017  But if you want to ignore its thats your prerogative 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

3 hours ago, ttkk said:

I was 5 in 1985. My granddad and uncle went to that Luton game. They (and Danny Baker) say the overcrowding in the away end was horrific that night. That's no excuse for the violence that erupted, as it was brewing anyway (this was the height of football hooliganism after all), but they are glad the hooligans did smash down the gates, as it was very much a Hillsborough (pre Hillsborough)  disaster in waiting.

I was 8 years old in 1968.

That was the only time I have actually been involved in football violence, when I was sitting in my own front room and some Millwall fans decided to throw a milk bottle through our window. We lived just up the road from the old Baseball Ground at the time. It scared me stiff, but it could have been a lot worse. Flying glass is dangerous.

I justcan't understand why grown adults would ever want to do something like that, and that includes our own pillocks from the DLF, etc.

[Gypsy Ram]

3 hours ago, ttkk said:

Crikey, the world was a very different place back then.

I was 5 in 1985. My granddad and uncle went to that Luton game. They (and Danny Baker) say the overcrowding in the away end was horrific that night. That's no excuse for the violence that erupted, as it was brewing anyway (this was the height of football hooliganism after all), but they are glad the hooligans did smash down the gates, as it was very much a Hillsborough (pre Hillsborough)  disaster in waiting. 

1994 was awful, remember it well. But, it was nearly a quarter of a century ago now.

Do you remind young Germans of what their forefathers did when you meet them? I mean where is the cut off point? As it's interesting that the tabloid press have been reduced to labelling us 'scum' for simply going onto a pitch in celebration these days! Perhaps showing how much times have changed. 

Look, I can see you won't be convinved whatever I say. That's fine. I don't define myself by the football club I happen to support through family and basic geography (a mile further west I could be a Chelsea fan / 2 or 3 miles further south a Palace fan!), it' just one facet of my personality. It's just a bit sad (in every sense of the word) that you judge me & about 45,000 other people on it.

I must admit football forums can be quite depressing really - for all the good, interesting people, there is always a few difficult personalities shall we politely say.

Give me Charlton anyday instead of Millwall. Only set of fans that cause trouble everywhere in South East London. More interested in heckling the away fans instead of watching the game.

This inner city malarkey doesn't wash. Never seen Charlton or Palace fans destroy local pubs like your lot. 

[WharfedaleRam]

Remember being in Skiathos in a pub watching us beat Brighton in the play offs second leg. Decent enough Lions-supporting bloke watching with his two Lions-supporting lads (early 20's I think). They growled at us throughout the conversation with dad. Really lived up (or down) to their stereotype.  Football supporters from the dark ages.

[ariotofmyown]

14 hours ago, ttkk said:

Btw, if anybody wants ideas on parking, where to drink etc. then just ask...

Really interesting posts @ttkk, we seem to have had some decent 'foreign' posters on here recently.

I was probably gonna get train to match but is there anywhere easy to park?

[ariotofmyown]

14 hours ago, ttkk said:

Btw, if anybody wants ideas on parking, where to drink etc. then just ask...

Actually don't worry about it. Drive there will be a nightmare!

[Alan Ramage 4 EVA]

Millwall "The Den" facts taken from"The football grounds of England and Wales by Siom Inglis"

The highest ever crowd at The Den was versus Derby County F.A Cup 5th round Feb 20th 1937.

The Den held two distinctions it would prefer not to have.

(1) It has been closed by the F.A following crowd disturbances more frequently than any other ground,in 1920(their first league season),1934,1947,1950,and 1978.

(2) It is also the only league venue in London not to have staged first division football

(At time of print 1984)

[Alan Ramage 4 EVA]

16 minutes ago, Alan Ramage 4 EVA said:

Millwall "The Den" facts taken from"The football grounds of England and Wales by Siom Inglis"

The highest ever crowd at The Den 48,672  was versus Derby County F.A Cup 5th round Feb 20th 1937.

The Den held two distinctions it would prefer not to have.

(1) It has been closed by the F.A following crowd disturbances more frequently than any other ground,in 1920(their first league season),1934,1947,1950,and 1978.

(2) It is also the only league venue in London not to have staged first division football

(At time of print 1984)

 

[admira]

Getting on for 1,300 tickets sold for a Tuesday night is mighty impressive.

See you there

[jagerbob]

4 hours ago, Alan Ramage 4 EVA said:

Millwall "The Den" facts taken from"The football grounds of England and Wales by Siom Inglis"

The highest ever crowd at The Den was versus Derby County F.A Cup 5th round Feb 20th 1937.

The Den held two distinctions it would prefer not to have.

(1) It has been closed by the F.A following crowd disturbances more frequently than any other ground,in 1920(their first league season),1934,1947,1950,and 1978.

(2) It is also the only league venue in London not to have staged first division football

(At time of print 1984)

They were first division by 1987 when derby returned right? Cascarino, Sherringham upfront

[jagerbob]

I was there in 1994, quite scary.
But in 2002 had another playoff semi, against Birmingham, and the Millwall crew were more obsessed with the prearranged scrap with blues fans, than the game.
I remember hearing reports fans had gathered outside before the final whistle (when millwall still had a great chance to get to wembley).

Birmingham only won the tie in the 90th minute.... when your more obsessed with a scrap than the actual football... then that describes millwall down to a tee.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/1962328.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1967510.stm