Norman Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said: I suspect some of it may be an unconscious bias. How often do we see black footballers described as "powerful", "pacey" and "athletic"?Rarely are they described as being "intelligent" or having superb mental reading of the game. If you are an ex-player looking to become a coach I imagine it could be difficult to overcome the impression people have of you as a player. And what do clubs look for in their coaches? Intelligence and a good mental reading of thee game. It's not an large leap of faith to imagine some board members at clubs going "oh he wasn't really an intelligent player was he? Relied on his physical ability didn't he?" This could lead to them discounting a black ex-player who has the qualifications without meeting them. Wow. Lol. Stefano E-ranioooo Stefano E-ranioooo Stefano E-ranioooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: They are such rubbish examples. How are examples of discrimination against white men rubbish examples of discrimination against white men pray tell? 16 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: One of the white men involved didn't even have any empathy for himself! Yes. He’s a cuck. 41 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: There is a trend of coaches not been black. You are arguing against this I’m against coaches being black? Citation needed. 43 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: You are arguing against this by citing a change of DJ on a bbc radio show! I’m arguing against coaches being black by citing BBC discrimination against whites? No I’m not. I argued against the Rooney rule by arguing that the FA now discriminated against the white people who are not part of the old boys network, which was the reason the researcher who gathered the data used to justify the Rooney rule stated was the cause of the underrepresentation of BAME coaches in the first place. The BBC discrimination was brought up to argue against you and your racist lack of empathy towards individual white men, a trait you’ve demonstrated on numerous occasions. 14 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Read @CaverRam's beautiful post on this subject. Can't you just imagine there may be good intentions in what people do sometimes? I’ve read it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 36 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Can't you just imagine there may be good intentions in what people do sometimes? Where did I say the FA were malicious? 27 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: At least the Daily Mail are using their anger in an attempt to shift papers so they can sell adverts. What have the Daily Mail got to do with the price of fish? 29 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: What are you trying to sell? What are you trying to change? I’m trying to maintain liberal values in the face of increasingly illiberal people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Norman said: Wow. Lol. Stefano E-ranioooo Stefano E-ranioooo Stefano E-ranioooo eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, StringerBell said: Yes. He’s a cuck. I think you can tell a lot about a person by the insults they use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Highgate said: I think it's closer to 3% in the 2011 census, including mixed backgrounds I'm guessing. Given that coaching roles are predominantly given to ex-footballers, just focusing on a community's overall percentage of the population is not really the relevant data figure to consider. How many coaching roles are given to ex-footballers? How many of these are given to BAME ex-footballers? Does the number of BAME ex-footballing coaches accurately reflect the number of BAME footballers?. Given that the answer to the last question is 'obviously not', then the next questions are, why is that the case and what can be done about it? Those are the relevant questions to ask in my opinion. What's the average age of a football manager in the top 4 leagues? Take the average age of that manager and ask what was the % of BAME players then. Because if there's an increase in BAME players since say Sam Allardyce or Alan Pardew played then that matters hugely. Like Arsenal and Chelsea have both fielded majority black teams. Take this back to when Moyes, Allardyce, McClaren etc were going into coaching and I bet neither side had ever fielded a majority black side. In the future with the increase of black players we should see an increase in black coaches without any Rooney Rule. I mean what percentage of white footballers go into coaching in the UK? You say the answer is "obviously not" but it's not obvious to me. If 1% of white players from the championship go into coaching and 1% of black players from the championship go into coaching then in 3 years time when they're all fully qualified the number still wont be equal. Never mind going back 10 years or whatever it takes to get the average age of a football manager in the top 4 leagues. I mean even racial breakdown of Europe needs to be considered as we recruit heavily from the continent? Or the make up of the "advanced football nations" How many BAME players will stay in this country to coach? How many black players are non Brits that will leave the country when they retire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, PodgeyRam said: I think you can tell a lot about a person by the insults they use. Yep. Using the word cuck paints me as the die-hard anti-SJW I am normie. Praise kek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Norman said: I disagree with the percentage. It's closer to 2, lolz. Are the majority of black players in the PL foreign? Do they go back home when they retire? Do they coach in their native country? Is the amount of money they earn so good here, that when they go home (or even their roots) they get involved in charities etc instead of looking for something else to fill their time with. Like coaching? Give me the numbers. If you can't, I suggest not stating your opinion as a fact. It's more annoying than the poster who used the word 'cishet' earlier. I think the rule is aimed at Asians. It would make more sense. There is a problem there. Nobody can deny that. Only a tit would claim it is racism, though. According to wiki, the 'Black or Black British' population in the 2011 census was 1.9 million out of a total population of 63.2 million which works out at 3%. And there are another 2% that are listed as 'multiple races'. Whether or not the BAME players are foreign and likely to return home when they retire is a valid point. Although i'd suggest that many might consider coaching roles in the UK, it's probably a good idea when assessing whether discrimination may or may not exist to limit the discussion to BAME footballers from the UK. Either way, minorities will still be under represented in coaching roles. What numbers are you talking about? As far as i know I've stated my opinion as just that, my opinion. Which opinions do you feel I was presenting as objective facts? Surely you are not going to dispute that there are less British minorities in coaching positions than playing the game, that would be an alarming position to try and defend. I had to look cishet up, to be honest. That's ok, I'm not sure I'll make an effort to remember it though. I don't know why you are bringing up Asians. The hasn't been a lot of Asian footballers in Britain, why do you think there would be a lot of Asian coaches? If someone doesn't know what is causing the lack of BAME coaches, only the most foolhardy would rule racism out as a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Alpha said: I don't understand why people think it's not a level playing field. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, Alpha said: What's the average age of a football manager in the top 4 leagues? Take the average age of that manager and ask what was the % of BAME players then. Because if there's an increase in BAME players since say Sam Allardyce or Alan Pardew played then that matters hugely. Good point, But just look at the British managers and coaches appointed in the last 5 years lets say, those been given their first jobs in the game that is Do you think it accurately reflects the ethnic breakdown of British footballers in the same time period. I'm pretty confident that it doesn't, but I'll let someone research the figures if they are that interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Highgate said: According to wiki, the 'Black or Black British' population in the 2011 census was 1.9 million out of a total population of 63.2 million which works out at 3%. And there are another 2% that are listed as 'multiple races'. Whether or not the BAME players are foreign and likely to return home when they retire is a valid point. Although i'd suggest that many might consider coaching roles in the UK, it's probably a good idea when assessing whether discrimination may or may not exist to limit the discussion to BAME footballers from the UK. Either way, minorities will still be under represented in coaching roles. What numbers are you talking about? As far as i know I've stated my opinion as just that, my opinion. Which opinions do you feel I was presenting as objective facts? Surely you are not going to dispute that there are less British minorities in coaching positions than playing the game, that would be an alarming position to try and defend. I had to look cishet up, to be honest. That's ok, I'm not sure I'll make an effort to remember it though. I don't know why you are bringing up Asians. The hasn't been a lot of Asian footballers in Britain, why do you think there would be a lot of Asian coaches? If someone doesn't know what is causing the lack of BAME coaches, only the most foolhardy would rule racism out as a possibility. 2.5% are male then. I round down. Do we have 2 black or mixed race managers in the league? Are they under represented? Give me the statistics. I'm not defending anything. I used my brain. It tells me that there wasn't many professional black footballers 20 years a go...in fact, just read @Alpha's post. I mention Asians, because they are under represented. In the whole sport. Thought that was the point? I'd say genetics play a part in that. But i wouldn't say that it would stop Asians being good coaches. Is there a problem with oppurtunities there? I'd say so. Does something need to be done? I don't know, i don't have the stats, but i would presume so. So I am presuming this is why the Rooney Rule has come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, Lambchop said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Highgate said: Good point, But just look at the British managers and coaches appointed in the last 5 years lets say, those been given their first jobs in the game that is Do you think it accurately reflects the ethnic breakdown of British footballers in the same time period. I'm pretty confident that it doesn't, but I'll let someone research the figures if they are that interested. 22 of the 428 senior coaching positions in English football was held by a Black or ethnic minority male. That is over representation as a population. But not in the sport. But that is coming. Did you know that since 2016 all Championship, league 1 and league 2 teams have interviewed at least one BAME candidate for an academy role or similar? Did you know that all those teams already do this for first team coaching too. I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Norman said: 2.5% are male then. I round down. Do we have 2 black or mixed race managers in the league? Are they under represented? Give me the statistics. I'm not defending anything. I used my brain. It tells me that there wasn't many professional black footballers 20 years a go...in fact, just read @Alpha's post. I mention Asians, because they are under represented. In the whole sport. Thought that was the point? I'd say genetics play a part in that. But i wouldn't say that it would stop Asians being good coaches. Is there a problem with oppurtunities there? I'd say so. Does something need to be done? I don't know, i don't have the stats, but i would presume so. So I am presuming this is why the Rooney Rule has come in. It's not the point. The point was that BAME are under represented in coaching roles. Notable and problematic given their considerable presence on the pitch. If you are suggesting that club owners and associations should be looking beyond footballers for coaches then that's a different debate entirely. I've no idea what you are doing with 2.5%, how you got it, or why you've assigned it a gender. But again, it's not the population as a whole you should be looking at, but the population of footballers, as it's from the latter population that most coaches are appointed. I agree that age is a factor to consider but even so I feel that first time coaches being appointed in recent years are 'whiter' than the average British footballer in the same period. I'm not interested in supporting that with the relevant stats at the moment, if you are determined to debunk the need for a Rooney Rule, then feel free to garner the appropriate data to support your viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 39 minutes ago, StringerBell said: Yep. Using the word cuck paints me as the die-hard anti-SJW I am normie. Praise kek. That wasn't what I was getting at. I was thinking that you see the word cuck as an insult so maybe you see cuckholding as something bad/to be frowned at. I'm not a fan of disparaging other people based on their sexual kinks (as long as they're legal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Lambchop said: A rather telling remark. White cishet middle class males don’t see the need for anti discrimination measures shocker. Complaining about racism in football, when you insinuate things about white middle class males, yet you refuse to quantify when I asked you the first time, how is it right for you to make this comment, when plug in any other race/background, and you'd be accused of all sort of things, so how is this an acceptable comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said: That wasn't what I was getting at. I was thinking that you see the word cuck as an insult so maybe you see cuckholding as something bad/to be frowned at. I'm not a fan of disparaging other people based on their sexual kinks (as long as they're legal). No kink shaming here. It’s been extrapolated to mean emasculated men with no backbone. Although letting someone bonk your wife probably isn’t the best idea tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, Norman said: 22 of the 428 senior coaching positions in English football was held by a Black or ethnic minority male. That is over representation as a population. But not in the sport. But that is coming. Did you know that since 2016 all Championship, league 1 and league 2 teams have interviewed at least one BAME candidate for an academy role or similar? Did you know that all those teams already do this for first team coaching too. I didn't. Ahh...you did get some data. Well done Again the population as a whole is not really the relevant figure. Are you saying that all Championship, League 1 and League 2 teams deliberately interview BAME candidates for coaching roles, a sort of voluntary Rooney Rule, or it just happened without any planning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Highgate said: Ahh...you did get some data. Well done Again the population as a whole is not really the relevant figure. Are you saying that all Championship, League 1 and League 2 teams deliberately interview BAME candidates for coaching roles, a sort of voluntary Rooney Rule, or it just happened without any planning? I have more data. 17% of Premier League players were British BAME 20 years ago. It is now 35%. It's been on a sharp increase since 30 years a go. British BAME hold 4.1% of the top coaching jobs of last year. And it's rising. Funny that. It was done with planning. It is voluntary. Wolves have declined to do it twice, but now have a BAME manager. Funny that. Thanks for the condescending well done. I like compliments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, PodgeyRam said: I think you can tell a lot about a person by the insults they use. He's become a pussycat. Hasn't accused me of murder in months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, eddie said: He's become a pussycat. Hasn't accused me of murder in months. You've not been on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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