Griezmann

[TroyDyer]

33 minutes ago, sage said:

I would agree that is was careless/ignorant mistake rather than anything intentionally racist. However if people find offence then it is by definition offensive.  

By that definition in 2017, saying "Hi" to a short person is offensive. 

[Sith Happens]

41 minutes ago, Moist One said:

I'd like to think this misguided rather that racially motivated, but yeah, someone will find offence in it.

agree

[Guest]

1 hour ago, sage said:

There is a long history of segregation, prejudice and apartheid. There is specific history of black people not being allowed to appear in films, theatre or other performances. They were replaced by white people who blacked up. Therefore a white person for amusement could be seen as representing a time when black people were so prejudiced against that they were allowed to portray themselves in culture.  

More contentiously it could be argued that basketball is seen as one of the few areas that white people admit black people excel in therefore this could be viewed as stereotyping and suggesting that this is all black people are good for.

 

That last paragraph is absolutely bizarre.

You honestly think Griezmann thought he would dress up as a Harlem Globetrotter because it would show that is all black people are good for?

How about my alternative view that this is being blown out of proportion because it is automatically assumed that all white men are racists?

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, Moist One said:

but the Harlem Globetrotters? weren't they black?

Some of them were, probably most of them - but not all of them. In fact Paul Sturgess played for them. He's white and from flippin' Loughborough! He didn't feel the need to black up for the games either.

So we can now return to my point - if dressing as a basketball player is funny, then he didn't need to black himself up.

And for the record, I'm not offended by it. I just think it's a really ignorant thing to do (as is trying to defend him)

[sage]

49 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

That last paragraph is absolutely bizarre.

You honestly think Griezmann thought he would dress up as a Harlem Globetrotter because it would show that is all black people are good for?

How about my alternative view that this is being blown out of proportion because it is automatically assumed that all white men are racists?

Sounds more like an alt right view rather than an alt view. Us poor whites being oppressed by these uppity blacks.  

[Bob Gnarly]

1 hour ago, TroyDyer said:

It's racist because twitter said it's racist. So therefore it must be. The eternal victims come out to play their violins at each other. Then when "What about white chicks?" or "What about when Sol Campbell was whited up as part of an ad campaign?" are put forward, you get the generic "You can't be racist to white people because they are the oppressor" line. 

 

You Sir are too smart for this forum.

[TroyDyer]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

That last paragraph is absolutely bizarre.

You honestly think Griezmann thought he would dress up as a Harlem Globetrotter because it would show that is all black people are good for?

How about my alternative view that this is being blown out of proportion because it is automatically assumed that all white men are racists?

He follows two accounts on Twitter. Athletico Madrid, and the NBA. That would suggest that he is a fan of basketball and was doing it out of humour and love of the sport, rather than racism. This is the joke of group think. No one ever looks at a situation, or a person on individual merit. It's always black and white (No pun intended) and no one ever looks at the grey area. 

If a white guy blacks up and pretends to be hanged at a KKK rally, it's very different intent to a fella that dresses up as a basketball player. If it genuinely causes harm to people, they need to spend a few days in Syria or Myanmar to see what real harm is. 

 

[Stive Pesley]

4 minutes ago, Mr Giggles said:

You Sir are too smart for this forum.

What is smart about playing into the narrative of pitting everyone against each other?

[Bob Gnarly]

2 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

What is smart about playing into the narrative of pitting everyone against each other?

Apologies - That was the joke - Little troublemaker

[TroyDyer]

8 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

What is smart about playing into the narrative of pitting everyone against each other?

How am I pitting anyone against anyone exactly?

[Norman]

36 minutes ago, sage said:

Sounds more like an alt right view rather than an alt view. Us poor whites being oppressed by these uppity blacks.  

It was a weird thing to say, though. He had said he's a big fan of the Harlem Trotters and basketball in general. Imitation is flattery. We don't know who he was actually dressed up as. It could have been a specific player who is his sporting idol. 

But you can't start arguing it's black stereotypying as a reason for it, or say it's because it's the only thing white people say they are good at - from a picture. Maybe the connection here is successful black people playing a sport a lot of black people are successful at?  So the chances of a black basketball player being someone's idol is vastly greater than other sports.

You're making leaps of thought that I consider to be strange.

It was imitation by way of flattery. Unfortunately you can't do that.

I'm all for people dressing up however they want, as whoever they want. As long as it's not a negative caricature. I know the history to do with 'blacking up', and it was horrific. This to me signals nothing more than someone showing their passion.

[ronnieronalde]

8 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

I don’t get that either, to be honest. If I me and my mates want to go to a fancy dress party as the a-team, have we got to go out and find a token black guy to be ba baracas?

Or is it a case that I could where a Mohawk wig, and a bunch of fake gold chains, but it isn’t necessary for me to black up to complete the effect. 

I suppose if a black guy wanted to dress as where’s wally for a fancy dress party, I wouldn’t say it’s not appropriate for them to ‘white up’ in that situation. 

But then I’ve seen that happen, and the guy’s had to describe himself as ‘I’m the black where’s wally’. Why do you have to be the black where’s wally, why can’t you just be where’s wally?

i painted my face green to be the Incredible Hulk once. I’m not sure if I should be ashamed now. 

I was once painted blue, put in a nappy with a pillow case for a hat to look like the smurfs. It wasn't for a fancy dress party just a bunch of lads bullying a skinny kid. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, even at the time it was happening it was funny.

I once painted my own face to look like an Indian Chief cos I fancied a girl at school who wore moccasins.

How could you not laugh? A bloke/kid showing up looking like that, you'd have to be pretty stupid to get offended over a bit of paint on someone's face.

The world has gone too far with this political correctness, huge leaps have been made in the right direction. Antoine Griezmann painting his face black isn't going to kick start racial hatred.

People having a go at him, now they might have the opposite effect.

[TigerTedd]

I get the bad history of blacking up, but at what point does that become history and we can put it behind and black up all in good fun without it bringing up all the horrible connotations. 

If I’m going to dress up as a basketball player, bearing in mind I know nothing about basketball, I’m going to dress as someone I’ve heard of, like Micheal Jordan or Magic Johnson, not as one of those really famous white basketballers I’ve never heard of. 

[ronnieronalde]

4 hours ago, sage said:

There is a long history of segregation, prejudice and apartheid. There is specific history of black people not being allowed to appear in films, theatre or other performances. They were replaced by white people who blacked up. Therefore a white person for amusement could be seen as representing a time when black people were so prejudiced against that they were allowed to portray themselves in culture.  

More contentiously it could be argued that basketball is seen as one of the few areas that white people admit black people excel in therefore this could be viewed as stereotyping and suggesting that this is all black people are good for.

 

There is a long HISTORY of it.

It's time to recognise the fact it's gone, it's in the past and has nothing to do with this generation (or at least the huge majority of decent folk, there'll always be idiots)

It's the same when I go to Ireland and am faced with the black and tan insults, it had nowt to do with me, nowt to do with anyone connected to me, nowt to do with you but you still want to fight about it?

Give over. We can't change the past, we can only change the future.

It happened 100 years ago fella and if I could have influenced it in anway I would have done so, positively. There are times when I look back and am not proud of our English/British way of doing things, I feel a bit guilty but there's bugger all I can do about it other than show you I'm not the same as they were.

It's the same as expecting the German's of this generation to be held responsible for what happened 70 years ago. Not on at all.

We can't keep holding this generation responsible for the behaviour of it's ancestors.

i'm not talking to you directly here sage, hope you know that pal, more a general observation.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, sage said:

Sounds more like an alt right view rather than an alt view. Us poor whites being oppressed by these uppity blacks.  

And there you have a major part of your problem. 

You're so willing and able to be offended on other people's behalf and cast aspersions about people's intent but as soon as anyone challenges that view we get a response like that....us poor whites. How do you even know what colour I am?

 

[Bris Vegas]

5 hours ago, StivePesley said:

It's an easy one really. As @Paul71 says - you don't have to be black to be a basketball player. So he could have just gone as a basketball player and not blacked up.

 

 

But what if his sporting idol was a black basketball player?

Or let's say Samuel L Jackson got the lead role of Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean. If I then wanted to go as Captian Jack in fancydress, am I not allowed to paint my face black? 

What if I wanted to emulate my favourite Derby player from the Jim Smith era and opted for Taribo West. Dreadlocks are OK by facepaint isn't? 

[sage]

14 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

There is a long HISTORY of it.

It's time to recognise the fact it's gone, it's in the past and has nothing to do with this generation (or at least the huge majority of decent folk, there'll always be idiots)

It's the same when I go to Ireland and am faced with the black and tan insults, it had nowt to do with me, nowt to do with anyone connected to me, nowt to do with you but you still want to fight about it?

Give over. We can't change the past, we can only change the future.

It happened 100 years ago fella and if I could have influenced it in anway I would have done so, positively. There are times when I look back and am not proud of our English/British way of doing things, I feel a bit guilty but there's bugger all I can do about it other than show you I'm not the same as they were.

It's the same as expecting the German's of this generation to be held responsible for what happened 70 years ago. Not on at all.

We can't keep holding this generation responsible for the behaviour of it's ancestors.

i'm not talking to you directly here sage, hope you know that pal, more a general observation.

As I stated earlier we are a much less racist country than we were a generation or two ago. However I think it's naive to suggest there isn't any racism in England. I don't expect English people to feel guilty about the slave trade or the prejudice shown by more recent generations. However I fail to see how that is linked to the Griezmann  photo. Greizmann wasn't accused of racially insensitive behaviour until HE dragged up the past with his actions.

I know you weren't being personal and I am not offended  

[ronnieronalde]

17 hours ago, needles said:

I don't get it. Asked my asian workmate about it when he was upset about some similar story a while back and couldn't get a coherent answer. If a black fella wants to 'white up' it wouldn't cause me as a white bloke any concern whatsoever. Is drag offensive to women? 

 

Depends if he's got great charlies or not 

[AdamRam]

For me you have to look at the context and the costume.  The most famous players in basketball are black, therefore you praise black peoples for their athletic skills, yet you are now implying a corresponding lack of ability in other realms, such as the intellectual and the moral etc....

Has political correctness got to the point where people not only pounce when you insult, they now pounce when you praise, and therefore trying to imply thoughts that aren’t there in the first place ?

So when we come to the film White Men Can’t Jump, what do the PC brigade do with that one ?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

For me you have to look at the context and the costume.  The most famous players in basketball are black, therefore you praise black peoples for their athletic skills, yet you are now implying a corresponding lack of ability in other realms, such as the intellectual and the moral etc....

Has political correctness got to the point where people not only pounce when you insult, they now pounce when you praise, and therefore trying to imply thoughts that aren’t there in the first place ?

So when we come to the film White Men Can’t Jump, what do the PC brigade do with that one ?

Just say something about 'ooh us poor whites can't jump' and then turn the conversation to slavery or American policing. 

Either that or sit there praying for a sequel called Black Men Can't Swim so they can have something else to be offended about.