archied Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Ok.... Lawrence...hard to tell what kind of player he is at the moment...it's just not working out,whether that's him or the management of him,I don't know.....he's certainly the only flair type player gr has brought in whilst we have shipped three out....and not for younger,keener models either. Leeds were certainly a cynical side which lit cloughs blue paper didn't it....but their game play wasn't the Clough way either...successful as it was under revie,Clough was determined to change it to his view of how football should be played. Hard work ethic....nothing wrong with that but easy to disguise a poor performance with that old chestnut...you hear it on the rd moan in every week,"the players don't want it enough" etc...load of bull,the players just don't know what they should be doing or are uncomfortable with their role.....round pegs for round holes is what Clough was getting at. And I would say your view of mine on Martin seems to be the more narrow minded.....I'm a massive fan of Nugent and coming round to vydra.i like to see all three of them utilised.Clearly Martin is my favourite for his clever play and the way he can build an attack around him...what frustrates me is the way that GR doesn't see that..the same applies to his non use of thorne despite his influence on a game.....as far as I can see GR just doesn't want their type of play in a game on a regular basis,it's just not his chosen way of setting up the team...maddeningly as they give us the control that we clearly lack. Huddleston workmanlike trier? Nope another that is regarded throughout the game as a superb passer of the ball and if truth be told his weakness is that he is not mobile and workmanlike enough for a midfielder ? The Thorne issue is again very unfair at this point given his current status returning from serious injury and rowett will have had very limited time with him in full training to find where he fits and will also be in much much better position to judge whether he is ready to be thrown in as a starter ? i have been very clear in my opinion of martin being a decent player but not a must start player where as if your honest you have made it clear ( in a post) that rowett is not up to the job because he doesn't see martin as an automatic starter ?surely you can see why from that I believe you have a very unbalanced view of martin that goes a long way to creating an unbalanced view on rowett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, archied said: Huddleston workmanlike trier? Nope another that is regarded throughout the game as a superb passer of the ball and if truth be told his weakness is that he is not mobile and workmanlike enough for a midfielder ? The Thorne issue is again very unfair at this point given his current status returning from serious injury and rowett will have had very limited time with him in full training to find where he fits and will also be in much much better position to judge whether he is ready to be thrown in as a starter ? i have been very clear in my opinion of martin being a decent player but not a must start player where as if your honest you have made it clear ( in a post) that rowett is not up to the job because he doesn't see martin as an automatic starter ?surely you can see why from that I believe you have a very unbalanced view of martin that goes a long way to creating an unbalanced view on rowett If we were playing good football without Martin,Thorne or any other of my favourites (Russell,Bryson) I would be praising rowett as much as the next man (through gritted teeth if he's not using my favourites) but nevertheless,if I was entertained, I'd be enjoying it. But we don't and part of the reason in my opinion is his misuse of his resources together with the way he sets the team up to play..... And Huddleston? workmanlike?...depends on your definition of workmanlike. Ponderous?....extremely. But another example of a player whose strengths are being wasted at the moment. A superb passer of the ball but who desperately needs the support of a agile quick thinking midfielder such as Bryson who was drafted out ridiculously by GR before ensuring a replacement and or Thorne,who will never gain fitness if he's never used. Again square pegs in round holes. So not really about just Martin is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: If we were playing good football without Martin,Thorne or any other of my favourites (Russell,Bryson) I would be praising rowett as much as the next man (through gritted teeth if he's not using my favourites) but nevertheless,if I was entertained, I'd be enjoying it. But we don't and part of the reason in my opinion is his misuse of his resources together with the way he sets the team up to play..... And Huddleston? workmanlike?...depends on your definition of workmanlike. Ponderous?....extremely. But another example of a player whose strengths are being wasted at the moment. A superb passer of the ball but who desperately needs the support of a agile quick thinking midfielder such as Bryson who was drafted out ridiculously by GR before ensuring a replacement and or Thorne,who will never gain fitness if he's never used. Again square pegs in round holes. So not really about just Martin is it? For me no ,, it's not just about martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 GREAT MAN?? Yes he certain was a genius a one of could his methods be successfully replicated in modern day football? To me the answers a big NO.if was that easy to copy the formula surely theres nobody in a better placed person to do so that his son Nigel!Also on the subject of Dirty leeds or should we say damned united it was the way they achieved it that offended not the success it bought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 If Brian was around now he wouldn’t last 2 minutes as a manager with the players of the modern era. None of them would stand for his methods. I am currently reading Stuart Webb’s book...really interesting about Brian and definitely shows another side to him that’s for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 14 hours ago, archied said: For me no ,, it's not just about martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 23 hours ago, Leicester Ram said: This is what bothers me when people talk about heart and desire. It's so easy to put everything down to we wanted more than them but it's so much more than that. Of course you want your team to be passionate and hard working but it doesn't matter how passionate you are when the Reading back five are mugging you off. Doesn't matter how passionate you are if you're constantly 20 yards away from the ball. EDIT: that's not a dig at Rowett, I think he's not spectacular tactically but he's versatile which can be just as good. But when people say 'finally a Derby team playing with grit' I struggle to see how that translates into promotion. It didn't do too badly for King Billy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owd miner Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 This is what ive got to say about Leeds 2017-11-09-VIDEO-00000463.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owd miner Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=i'm+a+race+car+fart&&view=detail&mid=4243AA516266445B414D4243AA516266445B414D&&FORM=VDRVRV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnstile Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 3 hours ago, MuespachRam said: If Brian was around now he wouldn’t last 2 minutes as a manager with the players of the modern era. None of them would stand for his methods. I am currently reading Stuart Webb’s book...really interesting about Brian and definitely shows another side to him that’s for sure. Don't believe all webb says,he put nothing down in writing until cloughie had past away. Cloughie was not a nice bloke,some forest and derby players didn't like him,but they all played their best for him. he inspired a type of loyalty which cant be measured.Larry Lloyd could not stand him but at cloughies funeral, he was in tatters,crying his heart out as were others.He was a football man management genius,better than most,on a par with the best.Any player of any era would jump at the chance to work for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 3 hours ago, MuespachRam said: If Brian was around now he wouldn’t last 2 minutes as a manager with the players of the modern era. None of them would stand for his methods. I am currently reading Stuart Webb’s book...really interesting about Brian and definitely shows another side to him that’s for sure. Spot on. And let's not forget he walked out on us, not the other way round. He was brilliant for this club, and the reason I supported Derby, but that was in the 1970s and the game has move on. Considering some of the OP's original points: Style - yes of course we all want to win playing beautiful football but I supposed everyone would say that. There's a reason why very, very few teams can achieve it. Formations, I agree can often be too over-thought. Being arrogant enough to get away with not bothering with the opposition (and I'm never sure whether I believed that anyway), why would you even think of taking that view now with all the advantages of research and analytics we have at our fingertips? Zonal marking? Always hated it. Speed - perhaps not so important in those days, absolutely critical now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 38 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: It didn't do too badly for King Billy.... 11 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Leicester Ram said: 11 points Promotion paul jewel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 14:47, Leicester Ram said: 11 points Why even bite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Tombo said: Why even bite? name a better manager we have had in the last 16 years...? exactly, you cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: name a better manager we have had in the last 16 years...? exactly, you cant. George Burley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, cannable said: George Burley remind me, did he get us promoted?....and who was it that knocked him out of the pay offs....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: remind me, did he get us promoted?....and who was it that knocked him out of the pay offs....? If only it were as black and white as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 On 09/11/2017 at 14:28, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Really? I would say that a lot of the principles that Clough held dear still apply today and particularly to derby.. Discipline,freedom to express their football,attention to detail,not kicking a ball endlessly in the air when it should be to the feet,playing with style and entertainment...these things aren't exclusive to the 1970's or one manager in the premiership. Similarly,his statement that......."The game is full of bluffers, banging on about 'rolling your sleeves up‘, having the right attitude‘ and 'taking some pride in the shirt you‘re wearing".....is still applicable to the manager who uses these hackneyed phrases today to cover up a host of managerial errors. No,I think that his ideas are still useful transferable to modern football and the best teams and managers are still adherent to them in some form of another..... Sadly,I don't believe we do at the moment and in some ways we are playing in the exact fashion that Clough despised....we are much more of the archetypical Leeds side of that era than a derby one... So we kick lumps out of the opposition and cheat all the way to the end, do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Tombo said: Why even bite? Didn't even clock he was a troll. Looks like yer da's got hold of a forum account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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