The derby way equals the Brian Clough way.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Not such a new concept....

Start to adhere to these guidelines and principles Gary for a happy group of footballers,chairman and fans who just might start coming back to pride park on mass.

All from the man who knew that football had to entertaining to be good.

The epitome of the derby way,some might say.

Six Coaching Points from Brian Clough.....

CLOUGH ON STYLE

Any idiot can coach a group of players to kick the ball as hard and high as possible and then gallop after it. Given time I could train a monkey to do it

His philosophy about how the game ought to be approached was refreshing:

style mattered…it wasn‘t enough to win- he wanted to win playing beautiful football. He wanted the ball passed elegantly as if it were on a thread, from player to player, preferring creative intuition to brute force. He demanded style as well as discipline. As Clough saw it teams who played the long ball were horned devils

 

CLOUGH ON FORMATIONS

I‘m not sure how important the formation is. What I do know is that players need to feel comfortable with the job you‘re asking them to carry out...I never considered the opposition or changed the way his team played to try and stop the opposition. Brian Clough, Walking on Water

 

CLOUGH ON PLAYERS, ON DETAIL

Clough would spot it. A seemingly innocuous mistake that resulted in a goal conceded three or four minutes later, a tackle missed, or a failure to make the right run, or pass, would be correctly identified as the cause of the goal. It was no use pointing the finger at someone else – which is second nature to most players. He knew, you knew he knew  Roy Keane, Keane

 

CLOUGH ON COACHING

Every football match consists of a thousand little things which, added together, amount to the final score. The manager who can‘t spot the details in the forensic matter that Clough could is simply bluffing. The game is full of bluffers, banging on about 'rolling your sleeves up‘, having the right attitude‘ and 'taking some pride in the shirt you‘re wearing‘. A manager or coach who trades in those clichéd generalizations – and there are many of them – is missing the point. Brian Clough dealt in detail, facts, specific incidents, and invariably he got it right. Playing for him was demanding. I loved it  Roy Keane, Keane

 

CLOUGH ON DEFENDING - ZONAL MARKING

I didn‘t ask any of my players to mark an opponent out of the game, not once. I would give them the instruction ‗you look after your own patch no matter who comes into it. ‗You couldn‘t get to him on the near post because he‘s quicker than you‘. So you stand in your patch and if he comes into your patch you deal with it … if he goes hold your position …The ball will come across at some stage and if you‘re not around it will be the one they put in the net  Brian Clough, Walking on Water

 

 CLOUGH ON PACE

He wasn‘t that quick but it didn‘t matter that much, it never does. I‘ve worked with players who could do 100 yards in 10 seconds (ish) … real pace is only an asset to players who are prepared to use it when it matters most. 

 

[SKRam]

I genuinely miss him 

[SKRam]

When Forest went down and the camera zoomed in I was brought to tears. For the man. Not the team 

[cannable]

One thing I never understood was if we always wanted to be the protagonists and okay good football why did we flood the pitch before European Cup games?

[rynny]

28 minutes ago, cannable said:

One thing I never understood was if we always wanted to be the protagonists and okay good football why did we flood the pitch before European Cup games?

My understanding is that we were used to playing on it, knew when where to play. Foreign teams were used to their bowling green pitches and couldn't get used to ours.

[North East Ram]

Clough, I've had enough

[loweman2]

The Clough Way !

[Chester40]

I'm not seeing how this works... basically you're saying let's follow a one-off.

He used force of personality, reverse psychology, man management...his own innate feel/touch for what he saw and what worked. He made players want to run through brick walls for him and didn't really 'coach' that much. He built them up and let them go.

You can't replicate that. Maybe Mourinho is the closest modern equivalent. But even he has a clear strategy in big games. Clough MAY have worked in the modern game where players aren't as frightened or as in awe of managers ..but you can't manufacture what he had.. without his charisma and ability to connect/drive players....you've not even got Paul Clement. A nice guy...who likes to play the ball...and has also coached at the top level.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

7 hours ago, Chester40 said:

I'm not seeing how this works... basically you're saying let's follow a one-off.

He used force of personality, reverse psychology, man management...his own innate feel/touch for what he saw and what worked. He made players want to run through brick walls for him and didn't really 'coach' that much. He built them up and let them go.

You can't replicate that. Maybe Mourinho is the closest modern equivalent. But even he has a clear strategy in big games. Clough MAY have worked in the modern game where players aren't as frightened or as in awe of managers ..but you can't manufacture what he had.. without his charisma and ability to connect/drive players....you've not even got Paul Clement. A nice guy...who likes to play the ball...and has also coached at the top level.

Really?

I would say that a lot of the principles that Clough held dear still apply today and particularly to derby..

Discipline,freedom to express their football,attention to detail,not kicking a ball endlessly in the air when it should be to the feet,playing with style and entertainment...these things aren't exclusive to the 1970's or one manager in the premiership.

Similarly,his statement that......."The game is full of bluffers, banging on about 'rolling your sleeves up‘, having the right attitude‘ and 'taking some pride in the shirt you‘re wearing".....is still applicable to the manager who uses these hackneyed phrases today to cover up a host of managerial errors.

No,I think that his ideas are still useful transferable to modern football and the best teams and managers are still adherent to them in some form of another.....

Sadly,I don't believe we do at the moment and in some ways we are playing in the exact fashion that Clough despised....we are much more of the archetypical Leeds side of that era than a derby one...

[Leicester Ram]

This is what bothers me when people talk about heart and desire. It's so easy to put everything down to we wanted more than them but it's so much more than that.

Of course you want your team to be passionate and hard working but it doesn't matter how passionate you are when the Reading back five are mugging you off. Doesn't matter how passionate you are if you're constantly 20 yards away from the ball.

EDIT: that's not a dig at Rowett, I think he's not spectacular tactically but he's versatile which can be just as good. But when people say 'finally a Derby team playing with grit' I struggle to see how that translates into promotion.

[G STAR RAM]

There is no such thing as the Derby Way.

It's just a notion that appeared in MMs head but there has never been any prolonged period of time where our club has implemented it.

In the past 30 years we have had 17 permanent managers and only Arthur Cox and Jim Smith had long enough to give us any sort of identity.

The only managerial change during that time which showed any sort of continuation  was when McFarland took over from Cox.

Moving on specifically to Brian Clough, isn't his way the same as about 90% of managers out there? Just that he was more successful at executing it?

Let's not also forget that he was a manager that broke the British transfer record on more than one occasion, so hardly comparable to this supposed vision of the Derby Way!

[i-Ram]

Glad to see this thread has not kicked on. No doubt many see it as another thinly veiled attack of our manager.

[Rev]

I'm not sure the Brian Clough way always kept the chairman happy, either.

[archied]

3 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Really?

I would say that a lot of the principles that Clough held dear still apply today and particularly to derby..

Discipline,freedom to express their football,attention to detail,not kicking a ball endlessly in the air when it should be to the feet,playing with style and entertainment...these things aren't exclusive to the 1970's or one manager in the premiership.

Similarly,his statement that......."The game is full of bluffers, banging on about 'rolling your sleeves up‘, having the right attitude‘ and 'taking some pride in the shirt you‘re wearing".....is still applicable to the manager who uses these hackneyed phrases today to cover up a host of managerial errors.

No,I think that his ideas are still useful transferable to modern football and the best teams and managers are still adherent to them in some form of another.....

Sadly,I don't believe we do at the moment and in some ways we are playing in the exact fashion that Clough despised....we are much more of the archetypical Leeds side of that era than a derby one...

Really ?..?

clough despised Leeds because they were dirty ,cynical,sneaky and sailed as close to cheating as possible and you compare rowett Derby county to that??????? Extremely unfair ,

hard work is stupidly being twisted by some to mean anti football ,,, total b******* ,,, it is the totally vital first basic that has to be in place to even consider going on to playing good football ,

if you think for one minute that Brian clough accepted anything less than total hard work ethic from his players then you are a fool , if you think for one minute that in building his teams clough did not start first and foremost by building from the back and being hard to beat then you are a fool ,if you think that any manager that does not have hard work ethic ingrained into his team as a first and vital ingredient can progress to anything better in terms of consistency and playing good football then you are a fool ,,, hard work is not just defending,,hard work is movement off the ball,making runs ,giving your teammates options ,pulling the opposition out of position,

sorry mate but thinly veiling a comparison as rowett being the kind of thing clough despised is disgraceful 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

I'm.quite sure that the Leeds side of the day didn't see themselves as cheating so and so's....they were a hard grafting lot,extremely physical and a close knit team....but they didn't play the type of football that Clough loved and wanted in his team's for the reasons explained in my first post.

Rowett doesn't want to play football like Clough and you are the fool if you think he does.....his style forgoes the crafty skilful player in favour of the workhorse and trier....nothing wrong with that,Birmingham played exactly the same way under his stewardship and no doubt Burton too and did ok.

It doesn't mean that I have to like it or have the same opinion as others on here....

I've been to several of gr's matches at home this season and last and have seen performances ranging from the adequate to the mainly disappointing.No player seems to know their role and passing on the floor in some sort of pattern is non existent.

Sometimes the results have been there but the performances I've seen have been far from convincing and we have certainly rode our luck over this 7 game period.

Some,perhaps many on here,are happy with our progress and performance but I doubt that quite so many would be if the bosses name wasn't rowett.

I'm hoping that,in the end,GR will come good...that players like thorne,vydra and Martin get the game time they deserve and that we get a midfield in to replace the skilled players we have sold or loaned out.....we may see some fluidity at last.

Perhaps then I'll finally get to like the football that I haven't since the end of last season....

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, reveldevil said:

I'm not sure the Brian Clough way always kept the chairman happy, either.

It clearly didn't,more the shame!?

[archied]

12 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I'm.quite sure that the Leeds side of the day didn't see themselves as cheating so and so's....they were a hard grafting lot,extremely physical and a close knit team....but they didn't play the type of football that Clough loved and wanted in his team's for the reasons explained in my first post.

Rowett doesn't want to play football like Clough and you are the fool if you think he does.....his style forgoes the crafty skilful player in favour of the workhorse and trier....nothing wrong with that,Birmingham played exactly the same way under his stewardship and no doubt Burton too and did ok.

It doesn't mean that I have to like it or have the same opinion as others on here....

I've been to several of gr's matches at home this season and last and have seen performances ranging from the adequate to the mainly disappointing.No player seems to know their role and passing on the floor in some sort of pattern is non existent.

Sometimes the results have been there but the performances I've seen have been far from convincing and we have certainly rode our luck over this 7 game period.

Some,perhaps many on here,are happy with our progress and performance but I doubt that quite so many would be if the bosses name wasn't rowett.

I'm hoping that,in the end,GR will come good...that players like thorne,vydra and Martin get the game time they deserve and that we get a midfield in to replace the skilled players we have sold or loaned out.....we may see some fluidity at last.

Perhaps then I'll finally get to like the football that I haven't since the end of last season....

 

 

 

Out of interest would you class Lawrence as the workhorse trier type of purchase ??? I'm not sure there are too many that would label him that type of player yet he is rowett biggest outlay?

again clever twisting on the Leeds thing ,,, don't matter what Leeds thought they were it's what clough thought they were you were using and it's well documented that clough classed them as dirty ,cynical and cheats ,as did most football fans hence they are still widely known today as dirty Leeds ,,,, can you tell me rowett Derby are a dirty fouling cynical side ,, cause I don't see that 

you have also declined to address the point that clough also saw hard work ethic and building from the back as the building blocks that have to be put in place first and foremost ,,, still if I don't fit the picture leave it out?. 

With the greatest respect your posts have been very clear in the view that rowett is judged on whether your fav Chris martin is rowett fav too as he was with Mac 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

24 minutes ago, archied said:

Out of interest would you class Lawrence as the workhorse trier type of purchase ??? I'm not sure there are too many that would label him that type of player yet he is rowett biggest outlay?

again clever twisting on the Leeds thing ,,, don't matter what Leeds thought they were it's what clough thought they were you were using and it's well documented that clough classed them as dirty ,cynical and cheats ,as did most football fans hence they are still widely known today as dirty Leeds ,,,, can you tell me rowett Derby are a dirty fouling cynical side ,, cause I don't see that 

you have also declined to address the point that clough also saw hard work ethic and building from the back as the building blocks that have to be put in place first and foremost ,,, still if I don't fit the picture leave it out?. 

With the greatest respect your posts have been very clear in the view that rowett is judged on whether your fav Chris martin is rowett fav too as he was with Mac 

Ok....

Lawrence...hard to tell what kind of player he is at the moment...it's just not working out,whether that's him or the management of him,I don't know.....he's certainly the only flair type player gr has brought in whilst we have shipped three out....and not for younger,keener models either.

Leeds were certainly a cynical side which lit cloughs blue paper didn't it....but their game play wasn't the Clough way either...successful as it was under revie,Clough was determined to change it to his view of how football should be played.

Hard work ethic....nothing wrong with that but easy to disguise a poor performance with that old chestnut...you hear it on the rd moan in every week,"the players don't want it enough" etc...load of bull,the players just don't know what they should be doing or are uncomfortable with their role.....round pegs for round holes is what Clough was getting at.

And I would say your view of mine on Martin seems to be the more narrow minded.....I'm a massive fan of Nugent and coming round to vydra.i like to see all three of them utilised.Clearly Martin is my favourite for his clever play and the way he can build an attack around him...what frustrates me is the way that GR doesn't see that..the same applies to his non use of thorne despite his influence on a game.....as far as I can see GR just doesn't want their type of play in a game on a regular basis,it's just not his chosen way of setting up the team...maddeningly as they give us the control that we clearly lack.

[David]

35 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

the same applies to his non use of thorne despite his influence on a game.....as far as I can see GR just doesn't want their type of play in a game on a regular basis

Rowett’s non use of Thorne maybe fitness related, he’s spent a lot of time out the game, no pre season and the odd 90 minutes with the U23’s isn’t the same as the first team.

Being protective and easing him back gently is sensible. Sure we all want to see him, but no need to rush the guy if he’s not ready.

I say all this and he could be fully fit and raring to go, but it’s a possibility worth considering.

[King Kevin]

21 hours ago, cannable said:

One thing I never understood was if we always wanted to be the protagonists and okay good football why did we flood the pitch before European Cup games?

Before on of the big European games Cloughy caame down to the BBG during the day and turned the sprinklers on and then fell asleep .When he woke up the pitch was well and truely water logged .

That night at the match the sports minister [I think it was Denis Howell] remarked to BC that it had been a lovely day so how come the pitch is like a mud bath .

Quick as a flash BC replied that the weather in very localised in Derbyshire and ther had been a downpour over the BBG. 

True story.