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Derby City Centre


G STAR RAM

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Ventured in during the day time with the kids today and all I can say is what a complete and utter disgrace. A complete embarrassment and the council should hang their heads in shame.

Parked by the hippodrome, or what is left of it, why have they let the building get in such a poor state of repair? I know it's privately owned but they must have been able to do something about it!

Next was a walk along Gower Street past 3 or 4 men out of their faces, very intimidating for my kids.

Next up to the top of St Peters Street. What on earth are the metal ring things there? Is it symbolic of the gateway to hell?  Who authorised wasting money on these things at a time when public services are being cut back on?

Down St Peters Street towards McDonald's, which was supposed to be a treat for the kids, boarded up shops and scroungers central.

I'm sure Intu is great for shoppers but the detriment it has had on the city centre is obvious and maybe the council should put pressure on Intu to help address this.

I remember when St Peters Street was pedestrianised and you no longer had to risk choking to death on bus exhaust fumes, it was great for the city centre, unfortunately it's taken major backward steps since then.

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6 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Feel dirty saying this... but Nottingham has a much better city centre - probably due to the shopping centres not taking all the custom and being part of the city centre rather than trying to be all of it.

Nottingham city center is nice must admit.

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1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Ventured in during the day time with the kids today and all I can say is what a complete and utter disgrace. A complete embarrassment and the council should hang their heads in shame.

Parked by the hippodrome, or what is left of it, why have they let the building get in such a poor state of repair? I know it's privately owned but they must have been able to do something about it!

Next was a walk along Gower Street past 3 or 4 men out of their faces, very intimidating for my kids.

Next up to the top of St Peters Street. What on earth are the metal ring things there? Is it symbolic of the gateway to hell?  Who authorised wasting money on these things at a time when public services are being cut back on?

Down St Peters Street towards McDonald's, which was supposed to be a treat for the kids, boarded up shops and scroungers central.

I'm sure Intu is great for shoppers but the detriment it has had on the city centre is obvious and maybe the council should put pressure on Intu to help address this.

I remember when St Peters Street was pedestrianised and you no longer had to risk choking to death on bus exhaust fumes, it was great for the city centre, unfortunately it's taken major backward steps since then.

That area is truly shocking ... Zombie apocalypse . Combination of things that new drug what's it called, and the selling off the hippodrome to some cowboy. Plus the becketwell area being left to rot. The whole area needs sorting. 

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22 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Feel dirty saying this... but Nottingham has a much better city centre - probably due to the shopping centres not taking all the custom and being part of the city centre rather than trying to be all of it.

There's problems too in Nottingham though. 

But they seem to have a plan, Vic Centre for big stores, Clumber Street as an extension down to the Market Sq, Hockley for the independent shops, Lace Market for food and drink, etc.

Broadmarsh is an even bigger eyesore than Duckworth Square though, and once it's redeveloped it may be like Intu, and suck the life out of the surrounding area.

Born and bred Derby, but have lived in Nottingham half my life now, so have a fair view of the strong and weak points of both cities.

No cohesion to Derby atm, once you leave the Intu you have to walk for ages, through a depressing landscape of boarded up shops/bargain outlets to get to the Cathedral area, where things improve again.

Encourage the independent shops and artisan providers into St Peter's street area, and likewise encourage pubs/clubs and restaurants to fill the Cathedral area, and at least the cityscape would make sense.

Derby is far smaller than Nottm, yet the way it's laid out currently makes it seem far larger.

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I went because I had to in order to do something at that rare establishment- a branch of my bank. I’d not been for a number of years. 

I couldn’t find the post office, it’s now a pub. The actual post office when I found it had a meet and greet bloke.  The whole city centre was awful, there were drunks, smack heads and beggars in plain sight. It’s scruffy, dirty and feels unsafe. Someone needs to be held to account for it, as people have said, Nottingham isn’t like that so it’s not inevitable that the city centre will go derelict 

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13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Rental income can't be much from empty shops though!!!

And the rents in Intu are far from cheap!

Yes that would make sense if you were a small landlord with one or two properties. These funds have hundreds or thousands. They can afford to have empty shops if it fits their strategy. Let's say they own a block of five or six shops together in one town. Combined rent is 250k per year. But if they keep them empty for a couple of years they can persuade council to invest regeneration funds, knock the lot down, rebuild shiny new flats at a subsidised rate, with 5 shiny new shopfronts, then get rent from anything up to 200 flats, depending on size of the build. Rental income is now around 2million a year. 

There are other factors at play too. If three or four landlords manage most retail property in a town it's easy to see how a cartel can evolve that collides to keep rents high. They calculate its better to do that than truly compete as it would cause all rents to drop. 

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Agreed. It is more shocking when you live away and come back after several years, as I did on Monday morning. I'm in Derby all week. Not been in the city centre (besides the pubs near the train station) for a long while and it has clearly deteriorated badly. The town looks scruffy and the people (on Mon AM) even scruffier. I am a proud Derbarian and have always sung its praises wherever I have laid my hat but I would not recommend anyone visit Derby now, the city looks very tired and neglected.

P.S if anyone is wondering why the boarded up shops won't drop rents to find a tenant - that would be a writedown on the asset value for the portfolio/pension fund (which is determined by rental price). They're locked in, just another manifestation of our perverse rentier economy, all land and housing is bought up and can't be allowed to drop in price...even to stimulate REAL economic activity.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Yes that would make sense if you were a small landlord with one or two properties. These funds have hundreds or thousands. They can afford to have empty shops if it fits their strategy. Let's say they own a block of five or six shops together in one town. Combined rent is 250k per year. But if they keep them empty for a couple of years they can persuade council to invest regeneration funds, knock the lot down, rebuild shiny new flats at a subsidised rate, with 5 shiny new shopfronts, then get rent from anything up to 200 flats, depending on size of the build. Rental income is now around 2million a year. 

There are other factors at play too. If three or four landlords manage most retail property in a town it's easy to see how a cartel can evolve that collides to keep rents high. They calculate its better to do that than truly compete as it would cause all rents to drop. 

And in such situations don't councils have the option of compulsory purchase orders?

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2 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Yes that would make sense if you were a small landlord with one or two properties. These funds have hundreds or thousands. They can afford to have empty shops if it fits their strategy. Let's say they own a block of five or six shops together in one town. Combined rent is 250k per year. But if they keep them empty for a couple of years they can persuade council to invest regeneration funds, knock the lot down, rebuild shiny new flats at a subsidised rate, with 5 shiny new shopfronts, then get rent from anything up to 200 flats, depending on size of the build. Rental income is now around 2million a year. 

There are other factors at play too. If three or four landlords manage most retail property in a town it's easy to see how a cartel can evolve that collides to keep rents high. They calculate its better to do that than truly compete as it would cause all rents to drop. 

+1These funds will have debt repayments and minimum yields across the portfolio etc. - that won't allow them to drop rent on an individual basis. Far better to suck up a few empties and keep the rest of the portfolio intact and value high - even if the rent does bankrupt tenants.

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6 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

Agreed. It is more shocking when you live away and come back after several years, as I did on Monday morning. I'm in Derby all week. Not been in the city centre (besides the pubs near the train station) for a long while and it has clearly deteriorated badly. The town looks scruffy and the people (on Mon AM) even scruffier. I am a proud Derbarian and have always sung its praises wherever I have laid my hat but I would not recommend anyone visit Derby now, the city looks very tired and neglected.

P.S if anyone is wondering the boarded up shops won't drop rents to find a tenant - that would be a writedown on the asset value for the portfolio/pension fund (which is determined by rental price). They're locked in, just another manifestation of our perverse rentier economy, all land and housing is bought up and can't be allowed to drop in price...even to stimulate REAL economic activity.

Good points I had not really considered.

If properties are determined by rental prices then surely an empty property has no value?!

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25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Good points I had not really considered.

If properties are determined by rental prices then surely an empty property has no value?!

No, an empty property simply has no tenant at that moment in time ;), its "booked" value remains high so long as the rental price it can fetch remains high. Dropping the rental price creates problems. It sets a precedent in the locality, possibly where other properties are also owned, this could affect their value in the medium and long term. Consider also that asset value appreciation is frequently where the real money is for a lot of domestic and commerical landlords. I.e. your interest only mortgaged dosmetic landlord who uses the rent to cover the interest payments but relies on the appreciation of the asset price to make his gains. 200-500%+ gains have been had in asset price appreciation over the last couple of decades and even more spectacular returns in the capital. The rentier economy doesn't make economic sense, it relies on smoke-and-mirrors and basically sucks productive capital out of the economy. The fact rents aren't dropped to keep the paper price high tells you everything you need to know.

 

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4 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

No, an empty property simply has no tenant at that moment in time ;), its "booked" value remains high so long as the rental price it can fetch remains high. Dropping the rental price creates problems. It sets a precedent in the locality, possibly where other properties are also owned, this could affect their value in the medium and long term. Consider also that asset value appreciation is frequently where the real money is for a lot of domestic and commerical landlords. I.e. your interest only mortgaged dosmetic landlord who uses the rent to cover the interest payments but relies on the appreciation of the asset price to make his gains. 200-500%+ gains have been had in asset price appreciation over the last couple of decades and even more spectacular returns in the capital. The rentier economy doesn't make economic sense, it relies on smoke-and-mirrors and basically sucks productive capital out of the economy. The fact rents aren't dropped to keep the paper price high tells you everything you need to know.

 

Never really looked into pensions.

Surely it is yields that makes them attractive to investors though?

Wouldn't artificially inflating property values lead to lower yields?

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