Free Agents

[Thierry Ennui]

3 minutes ago, curtains said:

Why include unfit players .

Thorne not ready yet and Hanson injured for we don't know how long  

 

Thorne will be in the first-team squad on Tuesday or at the weekend, he's more or less back.

I wasn't actually aware that Hanson was out. In that case we 100% need another CM, it's not even an argument!

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

Thorne will be in the first-team squad on Tuesday or at the weekend, he's more or less back.

I wasn't actually aware that Hanson was out. In that case we 100% need another CM, it's not even an argument!

Hanson got injured at Grimsby in the abandoned game and last time I saw him he had a boot type thing on his leg and not heard any updates on his fitness . Thorne might play tonight for the U23s at Swansea maybe if not you may be right about Tuesday mate. 

I just think we are still a bit short in CM but Callum Guy and Thorne have returned to training. 

[HectorsHouse]

. No reference made to Anya, so you could argue that he could be seen as full back cover in the unlikely event that Baird had to drop into a CDM role

[cheron85]

33 minutes ago, curtains said:

Wrong 

Ah so you're in the "let's sign this dude from league one when no-one else from our level not even the bottom end want to pick him up" camp?

30 minutes ago, curtains said:

Why include unfit players .

Thorne not ready yet and Hanson injured for we don't know how long  

Thorne is due to start tomorrow night

Hanson they've said 5 weeks

[Thierry Ennui]

7 minutes ago, HectorsHouse said:

. No reference made to Anya, so you could argue that he could be seen as full back cover in the unlikely event that Baird had to drop into a CDM role

Baird has never played well in that position for us. He shouldn't be our main backup there.

[Curtains]

22 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Ah so you're in the "let's sign this dude from league one when no-one else from our level not even the bottom end want to pick him up" camp?

Thorne is due to start tomorrow night

Hanson they've said 5 weeks

I don't want him I don't want anyone else until January. Thorne is due to start tomorrow!  Where have you seen this .  5 weeks for Hanson that's a lot of games .

[cheron85]

4 minutes ago, curtains said:

I don't want him I don't want anyone else until January. Thorne is due to start tomorrow!  Where have you seen this .  5 weeks for Hanson that's a lot of games .

DET said today that Rowett had already said Thorne and Shackell would start against Barnsley 

[Alex W]

43 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

Baird has never played well in that position for us. He shouldn't be our main backup there.

In a 4-3-3 he has always looked exposed, a 4-2-3-1 is different, I'd certainly trust him enough to do a job, though this doesn't negate the need for actual cover in there.

[nogbad van 50]

5 hours ago, RamNut said:

 

Any slightly more constructive comments to make?

do we need another midfielder?

any other ideas?

I think it's up to Gary Rowett to come up with ideas,that's what he gets paid for!

[brady1993]

27 minutes ago, Alex W said:

In a 4-3-3 he has always looked exposed, a 4-2-3-1 is different, I'd certainly trust him enough to do a job, though this doesn't negate the need for actual cover in there.

I'm not entirely sure I follow your argument here. Surely in a 433 your defensive midfielder is less exposed because they are purely tasked with sit ting in that zone just infront of the centres backs. Whereas as in a two you need them to press a bit more and to be able to shuffle across, essentially be more actively engaged in defensive work. 

[Alex W]

13 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I'm not entirely sure I follow your argument here. Surely in a 433 your defensive midfielder is less exposed because they are purely tasked with sit ting in that zone just infront of the centres backs. Whereas as in a two you need them to press a bit more and to be able to shuffle across, essentially be more actively engaged in defensive work. 

In a 2 you have twice the cover, a break beyond the offensive line is a ? v 6 situation, not a ? v 5. A 4-3-3 leaves you much more exposed as there's the potential for both midfielders in front of you to be taken out of the game. Although there may be more pressing there's always the extension of cover behind you, at the expense of an extra attacking man that a 4-3-3 can deliver.

The CDM in a 4-3-3 can be easily dragged out wide if a break takes place further towards the flank, in a 2 you obviously have the extra body there. It also allows Baird to play on his favoured side of the pitch, Johnson is left footed and Huddlestone tends to drift left and ping balls on occasion too so it would not affect their game. I think in this scenario he could easily be looked at as a utility option, though preferably with Huddlestone/Thorne, we'd suffer badly without either one playing the ball out.

[cheron85]

21 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I'm not entirely sure I follow your argument here. Surely in a 433 your defensive midfielder is less exposed because they are purely tasked with sit ting in that zone just infront of the centres backs. Whereas as in a two you need them to press a bit more and to be able to shuffle across, essentially be more actively engaged in defensive work. 

Depends - Normally you'd expect your 2 in the 4-2-3-1 to sit around the same position as the DM in a 4-3-3

There's an understanding in the 4-2-3-1 I think that if you're in the 2 your role is primarily defensive with an option to attack when you have the time and space - In the 4-3-3 you only usually have 1 player who sits deep and 2 who are a little freer... But it's not always like that - Depends on player selection and style of play etc

[richinspain]

4 hours ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

Baird has never played well in that position for us. He shouldn't be our main backup there.

Didn't he play most of his football for WBA in the prem in midfield? Genuine question, how many games has he played for us in midfield and when? Under Clement he had a rough time in every position he played according to people on here.

[t'oldu]

He is going to look at Max Bird too  and then make a decision re whether he needs to get in a Free Agent.

[Thierry Ennui]

23 minutes ago, richinspain said:

Didn't he play most of his football for WBA in the prem in midfield? Genuine question, how many games has he played for us in midfield and when? Under Clement he had a rough time in every position he played according to people on here.

You could argue that due to his defensive qualities and his decent long balls he could slot in where Huddlestone is playing, but surely he isn't mobile enough to play the Johnson/Kieftenbeld (RIP) box to box role.

[rustylee]

Hasn't Rowett said we are morally obliged to complete the Kieftenbield transfer in Jan? If we sign a free agent as well we are back to bloating the squad. With our best midfielder on his way back and Baird as cover we should be ok.

[Anag Ram]

Didn't Forsyth play in midfield for Watford? 

[cheron85]

30 minutes ago, rustylee said:

Hasn't Rowett said we are morally obliged to complete the Kieftenbield transfer in Jan? If we sign a free agent as well we are back to bloating the squad. With our best midfielder on his way back and Baird as cover we should be ok.

I would imagine we'll be back in for him unless he forces his way into the Birmingham team on a regular basis

14 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Didn't Forsyth play in midfield for Watford? 

LM though I think

[cannable]

Kirchoff's gonna be a coup for somebody should he remain fit. Bit too samey samey for us though I feel

[cannable]

3 hours ago, Alex W said:

In a 2 you have twice the cover, a break beyond the offensive line is a ? v 6 situation, not a ? v 5. A 4-3-3 leaves you much more exposed as there's the potential for both midfielders in front of you to be taken out of the game. Although there may be more pressing there's always the extension of cover behind you, at the expense of an extra attacking man that a 4-3-3 can deliver.

The CDM in a 4-3-3 can be easily dragged out wide if a break takes place further towards the flank, in a 2 you obviously have the extra body there. It also allows Baird to play on his favoured side of the pitch, Johnson is left footed and Huddlestone tends to drift left and ping balls on occasion too so it would not affect their game. I think in this scenario he could easily be looked at as a utility option, though preferably with Huddlestone/Thorne, we'd suffer badly without either one playing the ball out.

It's all just numbers on a page. 

Pirlo was the deep midfielder but he had two energetic tacklers ahead of him. 

Leicester were 4-4-2 on paper put had an energetic tackler and somebody who would sit and spray, and Okazaki would drop in the hole - ergo a 4-2-3-1 in practise. 

Whereas Viera and Petit would act as pistons for Arsenal, Bergkamp being the Okazaki. 

Huddersfield's 4-2-3-1 sees Mooy backing up play with Hogg/Billing sitting. Effectively leaving them in the sand position post turnover as you allude happens in a 4-3-3.