Malta v England

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

sterling wouldnt get in our team and we need a winger

Apparently Pep has worked wonders with him.

[Curtains]

Harry Kane has hit back at fans after Malta game 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/09/02/harry-kane-hits-back-boo-boys-plea-england-fans-stay-patient/

[eddie]

6 minutes ago, curtains said:

Harry Kane has hit back at fans after Malta game 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/09/02/harry-kane-hits-back-boo-boys-plea-england-fans-stay-patient/

It's the old 'entitlement mentality' again.

[Gaspode]

"Anyone who says that, I don’t think they understand what it takes and it’s probably why they’re sitting at home watching and we’re out there playing" - what a great way to get the fans on your side.....

[blackNwhites]

Is it entitlement? Or is it the feeling of boredom when it comes to watching England. Most of us have seen poor England teams in the past, but you could at least see some effort.

When we were beaten by Iceland, we were second best throughout the game. It was so pathetic a performance by these extremely rich footballers against the so called part timers. There's way too much money in the English game, they've already made it before they even get a call up for England.

I like Harry Kane, but his performance against Iceland that day was poor. 

The last time I really enjoyed watching England was when we beat Switzerland away 0-2. Before that it was probably when we got beat by Germany 4-1 in South Africa. 

England are boring on the pitch and lack lustre when it matters. That's an observation, not a sense of entitlement.

[Bris Vegas]

England will always be boring to watch, as they just don't have the technical ability of the Germans, Spanish, Italians, French, Portuguese or Dutch of present or past.

The Premier League is littered with so much foreign talent, the English players basically become the water carriers for their more illustrious and frankly better foreign teammates.

It means when they all get thrown together for England matches, they don't have anyone who can take responsibility. I don't mean in a captain's sense, I mean take responsibility of getting on the ball and making things happen.

You look at players like Isco and England could never produce a talent like that. We can produce driving midfielders like Lampard or Gerrard, but not gifted, technical players who manoevre space and timing.

England will always look rubbish trying to break down inferior teams. We actually look our best when we are the inferior side, and we hold the opposition in the deep, compact defensive shape and look to counter.

The best display I've ever seen England put in was against Portugal with 10 men in 2006. We were so inferior technically, yet we defended like heroes with Owen Hargreaves in particular leaving it all out there. So much pride there.

Unfortunately, whether it's psychological or ultimtely just a lack of ability, we always (well in my lifetime anyway) find ourselves on the wrong end of a result against Germany, Italy, Portugal etc be it penalties or whatever.

The best we can hope for is to do a Greece. But the added pressure, mainly due to the riches these average players earn in the PL, prevents us from having that underdog mindset. Fans, media and even the players alike think we have this divine right to put the opposition to the sword as most think their overinflated wages and fees reflects their actual ability.

Truth be told, if someone like Isco was English, he would be worth £200 million at least in today's market.

[VulcanRam]

8 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

England will always be boring to watch, as they just don't have the technical ability of the Germans, Spanish, Italians, French, Portuguese or Dutch of present or past.

The Premier League is littered with so much foreign talent, the English players basically become the water carriers for their more illustrious and frankly better foreign teammates.

It means when they all get thrown together for England matches, they don't have anyone who can take responsibility. I don't mean in a captain's sense, I mean take responsibility of getting on the ball and making things happen.

You look at players like Isco and England could never produce a talent like that. We can produce driving midfielders like Lampard or Gerrard, but not gifted, technical players who manoevre space and timing.

England will always look rubbish trying to break down inferior teams. We actually look our best when we are the inferior side, and we hold the opposition in the deep, compact defensive shape and look to counter.

The best display I've ever seen England put in was against Portugal with 10 men in 2006. We were so inferior technically, yet we defended like heroes with Owen Hargreaves in particular leaving it all out there. So much pride there.

Unfortunately, whether it's psychological or ultimtely just a lack of ability, we always (well in my lifetime anyway) find ourselves on the wrong end of a result against Germany, Italy, Portugal etc be it penalties or whatever.

The best we can hope for is to do a Greece. But the added pressure, mainly due to the riches these average players earn in the PL, prevents us from having that underdog mindset. Fans, media and even the players alike think we have this divine right to put the opposition to the sword as most think their overinflated wages and fees reflects their actual ability.

Truth be told, if someone like Isco was English, he would be worth £200 million at least in today's market.

Great post, particularly about the underdog mindset, which we should have but seem to have the entire opposite.

[WhiteHorseRam]

Friday night's game marked a new low for me watching England. I remember being so excited watching pre 2010 England I had to stand up.

Friday night was abject. We got those late goals because the Maltese boys tired out.

If we had played anyone half decent (Wales, Iceland, titans like that) we would have lost. Holland, Portugal - don't make me laugh.

I just heard on the radio yesterday - so can't confirm - that Southgate is getting an All Blacks coach to talk to the team about 'identity.' 

WTF.

Sorry, I mean WTF?

You are playing for a team called England.If you need a seminar about identity take the shirt off and go forth and multiply.

[Leon the ram 2009]

I don't think I've enjoyed An England game since beating Germany 5-1in 2001, I was on an operational tour in Macedonia at the time, unfortunately I was also there watching the Sept 11th attack on the twin towers on the same TV, the day the world changed forever ?

[1of4]

I don't want to watch players strolling around the pitch who expect to win the match with moment of magic, be they highly paid, over paid, under paid or even playing for no pay. I want to watch players giving their full comment, showing effort and determination in wanting to win the game, be it the world cup, championship or local park.

[Bris Vegas]

I think the commitment and determination card gets thrown around by fans who fail to recognise just how average our players are.

I don't for a minute think the players aren't trying to win a game.

They look slow and sluggish because they are slow and sluggish. It's not a case of them not trying.

I remember when loads of fans always questioned why Gerrard couldn't bring his Liverpool form to England. Simple really, at Liverpool he had quality players like Mascherano and Xabi Alonso doing the work around him and Suarez or Torres making the runs infront of him. For England he never had that luxury so when the burden was on him, he was shown up for what he really is, technically insufficient.

[needles]

I didn't watch the Malta game, so don't really get to comment. They did win 4-0 though, lets not forget.

Contrast that with France last night, a game I did watch some of having witnessed 10 minutes of the Netherlands game where the French wonder kids were scintillating. I thought I was watching the next world champions and I might have been. Fast forward to Luxembourg however and they slowly ran out of ideas and ended up looking ordinary. Amazing what a packed and drilled defence can do.

I guess like Malta's?

Bris's quote above about slow and sluggish...I don't think that applies to Marcus Rashford, or Kyle Walker, or Dele Alli, or Ale Oxlade-Chamberlain, or Theo Walcott, or Harry Kane....so why don't they do it for England?

Well, it's your fault. And yours. And mine. We fund a media that is so toxic that in my opinion the England players are either too terrified to make a mistake or too pissed off to properly engage.

Contrast with the Welsh team. Individually not quite so good...but driven and together with a nation behind them. Encapsulated by the goal the young lad scored, I'm told, coming right after a rousing rendition of the Welsh anthem.

We have a society that sneers at the English anthem (which is in fact the British anthem), as a part racist and part colonial embarrassment, and a press that sells more by moaning than praising, and more still the harsher it moans...the origins of that impulse have been debated quite well on here recently in the context of our own club.

Who can inspire us above that? Who can make us, and the team, believe and be proud to be English.

Gareth Southgate? Doubt it. Decent man. Decent coach.

Any of the squad? Can't see a stand out leader in there and John Terry couldn't manage it.

The fans? Yeah, OK.

We'll keep on getting to finals (hopefully), and one day it'll click. Hopefully. And that's all you're left with. Hope rather than logical expectation. The football supporting equivalent of belt it into the channel and run after it.

 

 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

I think the commitment and determination card gets thrown around by fans who fail to recognise just how average our players are.

I don't for a minute think the players aren't trying to win a game.

They look slow and sluggish because they are slow and sluggish. It's not a case of them not trying.

I remember when loads of fans always questioned why Gerrard couldn't bring his Liverpool form to England. Simple really, at Liverpool he had quality players like Mascherano and Xabi Alonso doing the work around him and Suarez or Torres making the runs infront of him. For England he never had that luxury so when the burden was on him, he was shown up for what he really is, technically insufficient.

If his name was Stephano Gerrardo you would be all over it.

[Bris Vegas]

45 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

If his name was Stephano Gerrardo you would be all over it.

All over what? The full-blooded tackles and occasional wonder strike from 30 yards?

If Steven Gerrard was Spanish, Italian, German, Portuguese or French, he would have finished his career with a maximum of 20 caps - most being substitute appearances.