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The boring Man City discussion


Jourdan

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3 hours ago, ripleyram88 said:

What was all that about not wanting to overspend on Alexis?

But £57m on a defender who has never played for his national side is okay?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42811597

Wasn't Alexis' extraordinary wage demands the problem for City and how it might force them to alter the wage structure at the club?

If so, then the fee that they might be willing to pay Athletic Bilbao for Laporte isn't really relevant.  What are Laporte's wages going to be? that's more the point.

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2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

The overspend was on his wages and agent fees. City’s top earner is on £220,000 (Aguero, Toure and now KDB I believe) yet Alexis is reportedly picking up north of £400k at United.

City need a new CB. They only have four senior first-teamers on their books, including Mangala who they are open to selling and Kompany who spends most the season out injured.

Laporte is widely regarded as one of the best CBs in Spain, and at 23 he is another who has years ahead of him.

 

If he's one of the best CB's in Spain, how come he's never been called up for France?

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12 minutes ago, Andicis said:

If he's one of the best CB's in Spain, how come he's never been called up for France?

After playing for the U21s, he made himself available to play for Spain, causing a rift.

It wasn't until earlier this season that he finally declared for France, and he was later called up to the squad for the World Cup qualifiers against Bulgaria and Holland. Though he didn't play.

He is behind Varane and Umtiti, two of the best CBs in the world right now. Koscielny seems to be the experienced 3rd choice too and Rami is an option too, so his path to regular football with France is extremely competitive.

 

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Just now, Bris Vegas said:

After playing for the U21s, he made himself available to play for Spain, causing a rift.

It wasn't until earlier this season that he finally declared for France, and he was later called up to the squad for the World Cup qualifiers against Bulgaria and Holland. Though he didn't play.

He is behind Varane and Umtiti, two of the best CBs in the world right now. Koscielny seems to be the experienced 3rd choice too and Rami is an option too, so his path to regular football with France is extremely competitive.

 

But it does show how much prices have inflated. 57 Million a few years back for a defender is getting an absolutely world class defender, now it's getting you France's 5th choice defender. He's certainly not a bad player, but a 57 million player? I question.

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21 minutes ago, Andicis said:

If he's one of the best CB's in Spain, how come he's never been called up for France?

To be fair, he has been touted as such for quite a while now. It was thought for a long time that Barcelona were interested too. He's played for France all through their junior ranks, but the senior squad is quite strong and he il only 23. He was in the French squad already, but not picked to play as far as i know.  Spain also wanted him to switch allegiance, so that he could play for them.  He's certainly seen as a player with a big future, whether that will be the case or not, who knows? 

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Just now, Andicis said:

But it does show how much prices have inflated. 57 Million a few years back for a defender is getting an absolutely world class defender, now it's getting you France's 5th choice defender. He's certainly not a bad player, but a 57 million player? I question.

Don't get me wrong the market is seriously inflated. But, if Laporte becomes a mainstay in City's side and helps them win numerous trophies over the next 10 years, £57m will soon look a reasonable amount.

For players that are under 25, I can understand the big transfer fees. Many are buying potential, and a player who should for that amount of money be at the club for at least 8 years and at a world class level for say 5 years.

Where the market has gone is when you see average players, who are over 27, leaving for £25m plus.

Leicester buying a 28-year-old Slimani for £28m or Everton buying a 28-year-old Sigurdsson for £40m is where the market has well and truely gone. 

Having watched Laporte play, I'm excited to see him at City. I'd much rather see Pep bring him in than spend £25m or so on Johnny Evans. I want to see if Pep can coach Laporte into being a world class CB.

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5 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Don't get me wrong the market is seriously inflated. But, if Laporte becomes a mainstay in City's side and helps them win numerous trophies over the next 10 years, £57m will soon look a reasonable amount.

For players that are under 25, I can understand the big transfer fees. Many are buying potential, and a player who should for that amount of money be at the club for at least 8 years and at a world class level for say 5 years.

Where the market has gone is when you see average players, who are over 27, leaving for £25m plus.

Leicester buying a 28-year-old Slimani for £28m or Everton buying a 28-year-old Sigurdsson for £40m is where the market has well and truely gone. 

Having watched Laporte play, I'm excited to see him at City. I'd much rather see Pep bring him in than spend £25m or so on Johnny Evans. I want to see if Pep can coach Laporte into being a world class CB.

It certainly begs the question how much a player like Harry Kane is worth in the current market. I understand buying potential, but surely this bubble has got to burst at some point? Players are becoming worth more than clubs, and that is crazy to me. 30 million used to be a fair wedge for a top quality player, and now that's considered a low fee for the top clubs.

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5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It certainly begs the question how much a player like Harry Kane is worth in the current market. I understand buying potential, but surely this bubble has got to burst at some point? Players are becoming worth more than clubs, and that is crazy to me. 30 million used to be a fair wedge for a top quality player, and now that's considered a low fee for the top clubs.

Harry Kane would probably go for about £150m. I mean, he's one of Europe's top goalscorers, and he's still what - 24? For a player that doesn't exactly rely on pace, he will probably be able to adapt well when he's around 30.

He doesn't quite reach a Neymar figure, don't think he's as talented or marketable. But he's probably up there in the top 10 in the world in terms of value due to his age. He's definitely got that over the likes of Ronaldo, Aguero, Lewandowski, Cavani and Lacazette et al.

Going back to City, how much of a bargain does Gabriel Jesus look now? He's only 20 and they got him for £27m. Not only can he be a world class striker for the best part of a decade, being Brazilian he's extremely marketable too.

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6 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Harry Kane would probably go for about £150m. I mean, he's one of Europe's top goalscorers, and he's still what - 24? For a player that doesn't exactly rely on pace, he will probably be able to adapt well when he's around 30.

He doesn't quite reach a Neymar figure, don't think he's as talented or marketable. But he's probably up there in the top 10 in the world in terms of value due to his age. He's definitely got that over the likes of Ronaldo, Aguero, Lewandowski, Cavani and Lacazette et al.

Going back to City, how much of a bargain does Gabriel Jesus look now? He's only 20 and they got him for £27m. Not only can he be a world class striker for the best part of a decade, being Brazilian he's extremely marketable too.

I don't actually think Tottenham would sell Kane for 150m. He's their talisman and probably England's only world class player, I think we're looking at world record prices to buy Kane, genuinely. 

Gabriel Jesus is certainly a bargain, but buying unknown players from Brazil certainly is high risk. They took a punt, and he came good, and is worth probably 5x that figure now. Although, I do worry for him if he gets an injury that affects his pace, seems quite pace reliant. I think the figures for a defender are crazy, I have to admit. Goal scorers have always been worth more, but to see defenders hitting such high prices is a touch alarming.

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I am not sure if this is a good move for Laporte.

I think he will encounter similar problems to Bernardo Silva.

The lynchpin at his previous club, but only a substitute at City.

I think he needed to join a club where there is a clear and specific place for him to slot in.

I think he will be rivalling John Stones for one position and not playing alongside him. Logically you can’t have two ‘kids’ playing at centre back - you need an experienced player to guide and mentor the younger one.

Stones, despite his inferior talent, has already got plenty of experience of Premier League football and has international caps for England, and is adjusted to the demands of the league, so he will surely be favoured over Laporte for the foreseeable future.

£57m for a third-choice centre back is indulgent. But this is Pep and this is City after all. Should we be surprised?

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29 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I am not sure if this is a good move for Laporte.

I think he will encounter similar problems to Bernardo Silva.

The lynchpin at his previous club, but only a substitute at City.

I think he needed to join a club where there is a clear and specific place for him to slot in.

I think he will be rivalling John Stones for one position and not playing alongside him. Logically you can’t have two ‘kids’ playing at centre back - you need an experienced player to guide and mentor the younger one.

Stones, despite his inferior talent, has already got plenty of experience of Premier League football and has international caps for England, and is adjusted to the demands of the league, so he will surely be favoured over Laporte for the foreseeable future.

£57m for a third-choice centre back is indulgent. But this is Pep and this is City after all. Should we be surprised?

3rd choice or not, he's no doubt being lined up for a long-term fit. Kompany is in his 30s and injury prone, Otamendi is 30 next month and may only have another two seasons left as a regular first-team CB.

Laporte will get plenty of games if he joins. City are likely to challenge on all fronts, so plenty of cup games available too.

I'd agree if he was perhaps 19. But as he's 23, he's at a good age to join City and establush himself as a first-team regular in the next couple of years.

As for Bernardo Silva, he's featured in 34 games (14 starts) in all competitions this season. Hardly a disaster for a 23-year-old who has the best part of another 8 years at the top of the game.

All the best teams need squad depth and top class players rotating. Put it this way, Bernardo Silva has had more playing time for City than Gareth Bale in each of his last three seasons at Real Madrid.

 

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Yes, this is obviously a long term signing, but Laporte has such a big reputation that he could sign for Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea or Man Utd and be an immediate starter. Why would you sit around kicking your heels?

Otamendi is having the best season of his career and centre halves can play on until well into their 30s, especially if they are not reliant on pace. Kompany still looms large, fit or not. Stones is a work in progress but he's gained Pep's trust and faith. So what benefit is there to be gained by Laporte sitting on the bench at City? Can you honestly say Bernardo Silva for example, looks a better player than this time last year?

How many games have City played in all competitions? 36. While Bernardo may have appeared in 34 games, it is a misleading figure as his actual playing time (according to Transfermarkt) only equates to 16 full games and less than 50%, and as it stands, it's only a third of the playing time he had at Monaco last season! 14 starts in 36 competitive games is less than 40% and some distance from 49 starts in all competitions last season.

When you consider they spent in excess of £40 million on the player, it's a massive waste of talent and stunting the progression of a player who for three seasons had been starting and playing in almost every game and integral to everything Monaco did well, particularly in Europe. 

When is he going to step out of the shadows of Silva and de Bruyne? David Silva could play at the highest level for another three years easily and he is as integral to City now as he was the day he signed.

Moving to Liverpool, Spurs or Arsenal would have been so much better for his development. The same will probably be said for Laporte in 12-18 months.

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21 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

The overspend was on his wages and agent fees. City’s top earner is on £220,000 (Aguero, Toure and now KDB I believe) yet Alexis is reportedly picking up north of £400k at United.

City need a new CB. They only have four senior first-teamers on their books, including Mangala who they are open to selling and Kompany who spends most the season out injured.

Laporte is widely regarded as one of the best CBs in Spain, and at 23 he is another who has years ahead of him.

 

I agree that they need another defender. Kompany can't be relied on anymore and I have question marks over Otamendi. But something I don't understand. City constantly keep breaking transfer records, but they won't break their own wage structure.

 

19 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Don't get me wrong the market is seriously inflated. But, if Laporte becomes a mainstay in City's side and helps them win numerous trophies over the next 10 years, £57m will soon look a reasonable amount.

For players that are under 25, I can understand the big transfer fees. Many are buying potential, and a player who should for that amount of money be at the club for at least 8 years and at a world class level for say 5 years.

Where the market has gone is when you see average players, who are over 27, leaving for £25m plus.

Leicester buying a 28-year-old Slimani for £28m or Everton buying a 28-year-old Sigurdsson for £40m is where the market has well and truely gone. 

Having watched Laporte play, I'm excited to see him at City. I'd much rather see Pep bring him in than spend £25m or so on Johnny Evans. I want to see if Pep can coach Laporte into being a world class CB.

Like Kyle Walker then?

And £57m only gets you a player with the potential to be coached into a world class CB? It's crazy. I know the prices have gone a bit silly, but that sort of money should be buying you an already world class defender.

If Guardiola is that great of a coach, why does he need to keep spending £35m+ on players? 

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Wouldnt it be nice... if rather than just inflate the prices of all players, if the clubs used the money responsonibly.

Pay none playing staff employers more, the ones who arent even on national living wage. Cheaper tickets for fans. Donations to the communities to make it a better place to live, where councils have no money to do anything!

I just think its a sick state of affairs that every other country or league in the world will continue to develop their own talent, and then the big boy premier league will continue to cherry pick them off, whilst not bothering to develop players of its own. The attitude and culture stinks in my opinion.

Its quite hard to stick to principles and be proud of your country in football, when not only the players are foreign, but the managers and owners are too.

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35 minutes ago, ripleyram88 said:

If Guardiola is that great of a coach, why does he need to keep spending £35m+ on players? 

By the time you’re a professional coaching is more about teaching a player how to use what they have and allowing them to flourish as opposed to actually improving what they are. 

You’re not going to teach a 23 year-old centre-half who’s uncomfortable on the ball to excel in possession 

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1 hour ago, ripleyram88 said:

I agree that they need another defender. Kompany can't be relied on anymore and I have question marks over Otamendi. But something I don't understand. City constantly keep breaking transfer records, but they won't break their own wage structure.

 

Like Kyle Walker then?

And £57m only gets you a player with the potential to be coached into a world class CB? It's crazy. I know the prices have gone a bit silly, but that sort of money should be buying you an already world class defender.

If Guardiola is that great of a coach, why does he need to keep spending £35m+ on players? 

Which transfer records have City broken? Neymar, M’Bappe, Coutinho, Dembele, Pogba, Ronaldo, Bale, Lukaku, Van Dijk...

All more expensive than anything City have paid on a single player.

Liverpool have the British record for a defender, United have the record for a midfielder and a forward.

Of all the players City have bought, Walker is the standout where you think they overpaid. £45m for a 27-year-old. I wouldn’t go as far as saying he is average though and he’s one of the reasons City are so much better this season.

 

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2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Which transfer records have City broken? Neymar, M’Bappe, Coutinho, Dembele, Pogba, Ronaldo, Bale, Lukaku, Van Dijk...

All more expensive than anything City have paid on a single player.

Liverpool have the British record for a defender, United have the record for a midfielder and a forward.

Of all the players City have bought, Walker is the standout where you think they overpaid. £45m for a 27-year-old. I wouldn’t go as far as saying he is average though and he’s one of the reasons City are so much better this season.

 

Wasn't John Stones the British record for a defender in 2016? Which city then smashed themselves with the world record defender fee for Kyle Walker? Wasn't Ederson a record transfer fee for a Goalkeeper?

£57m for Laporte would break City's own transfer record.

If Man City sign Laporte, then they will have the most expensive GK, and a defence comprising of 4 of the top 6 fees ever paid for defenders.

To be honest, I've never been a fan of Kyle Walker. I like Man City and the way they play. David Silva is probably one of the best footballers to be seen in the premier league. I have no doubt Guardiola is a good coach. He's just spending an awful lot of money for someone who is meant to be the best.

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34 minutes ago, ripleyram88 said:

Wasn't John Stones the British record for a defender in 2016? Which city then smashed themselves with the world record defender fee for Kyle Walker? Wasn't Ederson a record transfer fee for a Goalkeeper?

£57m for Laporte would break City's own transfer record.

If Man City sign Laporte, then they will have the most expensive GK, and a defence comprising of 4 of the top 6 fees ever paid for defenders.

To be honest, I've never been a fan of Kyle Walker. I like Man City and the way they play. David Silva is probably one of the best footballers to be seen in the premier league. I have no doubt Guardiola is a good coach. He's just spending an awful lot of money for someone who is meant to be the best.

John Stones was the record for a British player. He wasn't the outright record for a defender though, that was David Luiz who moved to PSG. If you take inflation into account, Rio Ferdinand was more expensive back in 2001.

Juan Sebastian Veron at £30m was another massive fee from United back in 2001.

Ederson isn't technically the most expensive goalkeeper, that would be Gigi Buffon again back in 2001 or something like that. But for a British club yeah Ederson is the most expensive (though at 23 he's worth it). I'd imagine that will get dwarfed soon when one of the big clubs pays Jan Oblak's £80m release clause.

Who are the four of the six highest fees for a defender? I've heard this stat before but I can only think of Mendy, Walker and Stones? 

While City have spent big, no doubt about that, they've done it by buying players who are early 20s and have the best part of eight years ahead of them. All these fees will be eclipsed in the next two seasons.

When you think about it, they've generally spent well during Pep's reign. They'd make a profit on most of their players should they sell them now with the exception of Bravo. 

 

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