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The boring Man City discussion

Jourdan

By Jourdan
in Football Forum

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Smyth_18

Smyth_18

Posted
Posted

City deserve far more credit for me.

They have won all but one of their games which can be put down to finding their feet in their first home game.

It's not even a case of an unbeaten run, they are winning every game which regardless of how much money you have spent, is absolutely outstanding.

 

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uttoxram75

uttoxram75

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I get its unfair to compare Pep to Big Sam or the like but he should be compared to Mourinho, both have unlimited funds at their disposal.

Its not just a case of buying the best players, what Pep does is make them work harder than the opposition.

I don't see the same hunger in United's big money men, Lukaku, Pogba and Ibra were signed for their physique as much as their talent, a lot of Pep's signings are smaller and rely on teamwork to be a stronger side. 

Its the difference between Jose and Pep imo which makes Pep a far better manager as the football is both better to watch and more successful.

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ramsbottom

ramsbottom

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56 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I never said they weren't a good side. I just said they weren't anything special. And to me, they aren't. Will they be remembered in the same way Arsenal's Invincibles are? Will they be remembered in the same way Ranieri's Leicester are? In the same way Fergie's dominant United are?

Of course, it was arrogant. Were they celebrating a rare victory against their biggest rivals? No. Because they have beaten Manchester United before and in much more devastating fashion. They were celebrating the title race being over in their minds. After 16 games. That is arrogant.

While I agree United were poor, were City that much better? Again, it was a very poor advert for the Premier League and could have easily finished 0-0.

What is embarrassing by allowing things to play out? Sure, of course, if come May, they are title winners and they have gone unbeaten all season, you give credit where it's due and admit you were wrong.

But right now, I stand by my opinion and I'm merely contributing to the debate. The hyperbole is too strong where City are concerned. But come May, if they have continued to dominate the league in the same vein, yes I will give them all the credit they deserve and admit that Bris was right and I was wrong.

I don't care for being right. There have been numerous times where I've come out and held my hands up to that fact. I'm sure in the case of Pep, it won't be too far away if they continue to perform like this.

The current Cit-eh side have played 17 league games together, so you can hardly compare them to past great teams.  Comparing them so soon to a side that went a whole season without loosing a game, one that won the league at a canter despite huge financial advantage, and one that dominated the domestic game for a decade is a little narrow minded and suits your point of view.  If this team progresses and wins trophies this season and the next, I think it's wholly fair to compare them to those other teams.

How do you know they were celebrating winning the league already on Sunday night???  I haven't read any report of the incident that highlights Raheem Stirling doing a samba dance outside the United dressing room, in his boxers, singing "CHAMPI-OOO-NEES", whilst smoking a big cigar...  

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Highgate

Highgate

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15 hours ago, Jourdan said:

For me, they couldn't lay a glove on the Arsenal team of the early 2000s

I think the Premier League was generally of a lower standard then, than it is now., and less financially dominant when compared to the other leagues  Looking across Europe today, the top 6 in the Premier League look really strong, whereas in the early 2000s, Arsenal (even their 'invincible' team) managed nothing at all in Europe.  For me, it would take a higher quality team to go unbeaten in the 2017-2018 league than it did the 2003-2004 season.

It's very difficult to compare teams from different eras, but right at this moment, I really think Man City look like the real deal.

 

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Bris Vegas

Bris Vegas

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14 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Arsenal won the title in 2003-04 with 90 points. 26 x 3 = 78, 12 x 1 = 12, 78 + 12 = 90. Quick maths, as the kids say.

How can this City side be mentioned in the same breath? For me, it's not even close.

When Wenger managed the Invincibles, they achieved it at a time when Ferguson and United were still very much at large, a United team that typically dwarfed everyone in performance and spending power. They achieved it at a time when they weren't overwhelming favourites or the biggest spenders. Chelsea and United were far more prominent in that sense. 

With players like Henry, Pires, Ljungberg, Bergkamp and Vieira and Wenger at the helm - it was a team underlined by its class, humility, charm and above all, its mesmerising technical football. Arsenal's team were impossible not to like and a triumph for football and for football fans.

Ticker tape in the dressing room after the 16th game of the season? For me, Pep's City just seem a bit crass and reek of arrogance and cynics will quite rightly point out that all their success underlines nothing more than if you throw enough £50 notes and Tactics for Dummies manuals at it, something will eventually stick.

The league is not rubbish. It's more a case of many teams not performing to their potential and again, like I said, everything seemingly going City's way.

It doesn’t matter how much money you throw at it, it takes a genius to direct the way City are playing right now.

We saw it before with Barcelona playing the greatest brand of football the world has ever seen, one which will be remembered in years to come.

And now Pep is putting in the pieces for City to accomplish something similar.

They’ve already broken the all-time winning streak, a record start to the season and goals scored. They’re on course for a record points tally too, all while playing an extremely enjoyable brand of football.

Of course fans and pundits alike are going to crow over them. They deserve it right now.

Things could soon change, but you can’t compare this current side to one which is viewed upon over a 5-year period.

Right now though, the level in which City are playing I certainly haven’t seen a better PL side. City’s best performances this season IMO have been better than the Arsenal’s invincibles or the United treble sides’ best performances.

 

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David

David

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8 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

I can see (but disagree with) the argument for Ronaldo being the better player as a whole. But he is in no way technically better than Messi, or even the likes of De Bruyne or Iniesta.

I never used the word technical. I said naturally gifted. 

If you are born with a desire to be the best and willing to work twice as hard as the next man to be the best, that is a gift. 

Always enjoyed watching Ronaldo play at both United and Real, where as I find it difficult to watch Boring Barca play so haven't been able to enjoy watching Messi as much as others although I'm well aware of his talents.

Not an opinion which many will agree with, I'm cool with that, grown men were wearing Jabba the Hut costumes at midnight to watch a film, I'm not into that.

Each to their own, I've been fighting for Weimann on here since he arrived, finally proving me correct that he's an asset at this level. I'll continue to fight against the masses for Ronaldo. 

 

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Bris Vegas

Bris Vegas

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23 minutes ago, David said:

I'm not the only one then.. Great achievements but all with the richest clubs in the world. 

Come on Pep, go work your magic in a club without all the riches and I'll shave all my hair off and join you in baldness.

I doubt Pep would ever work at a club which isn’t regarded as one of the best around.

I mean, why would he? Some argue he is only achieving what he is doing due to the resources at his disposal.

Some might be right in saying Sam Allardyce could also win silverware with such backing.

But nobody will convince me that anyone other than Pep could get a team playing as incredible as City are. Winning yes, but in such style absolutely not.

Pep is a genius. His coaching methods allows players to reach levels they perhaps never deemed imaginable.

How many of United’s players genuinely look better under Jose Mourinho? And he took over from LVG!

Already this season you can see players like Otamendi, Delph, Stones, Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling, Sane and even David Silva are playing better than they have ever done before.

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Highgate

Highgate

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Strange to argue that Guardiola isn't a truly great manager because he's never managed an average side. Do we have similar reservations for great players?  Messi isn't really the greatest player in the world because he's never done it for Stoke or Burnley ?

Surely what they do with the teams they have at their disposal is what matters. 

Incidentally Pep did do a very good job with Barca B, in the Spanish third tier.

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David

David

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1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

I doubt Pep would ever work at a club which isn’t regarded as one of the best around.

I mean, why would he? Some argue he is only achieving what he is doing due to the resources at his disposal.

Some might be right in saying Sam Allardyce could also win silverware with such backing.

But nobody will convince me that anyone other than Pep could get a team playing as incredible as City are. Winning yes, but in such style absolutely not.

Pep is a genius. His coaching methods allows players to reach levels they perhaps never deemed imaginable.

How many of United’s players genuinely look better under Jose Mourinho? And he took over from LVG!

Already this season you can see players like Otamendi, Delph, Stones, Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling, Sane and even David Silva are playing better than they have ever done before.

He wouldn't, as you say why would he, still a frustration as are clubs cycling through the likes of Hodgson and Pardew in the Premier League, Everton opting for Big Sam when Dyche is working wonders with Burnley, could sense he wanted a chance at a top job.

Never denied Guardiola is a top coach, as the tweets show his achievements have come with clubs inside the top 5 richest clubs, Zidane is up there with 16 League wins in a row, again at a club with the resources far greater than 98% of La Liga. Question marks will always be over them rightly or wrongly.

I long for the day one of these top coaches that has won all they can in football, nothing to lose and takes over at a West Brom just for ***** and giggles, nobody would expect them to win the league, they wouldn't be judged on trophies but on improvement.

But again, as you say will never happen.

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