The boring Man City discussion

[rynny]

15 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42304458

Alan Shearer is declaring the title race over. Brave words from a guy who saw his beloved Newcastle squander an 11-point lead at the top of the table around this time.

Then again, City are evidently the best team in the PL this season and there seems a bigger gulf in quality between them and United than say United and Arsenal.

Harsh on Shearer, he was at Blackburn when that happened, and is the reason they signed him for a world record transfer fee.

[ronnieronalde]

Saw a post on social media today (hope it wasn't on here and I've gone mental..) Man City would have finished 8th in last years premier league with the same points they've got so far this season.

Blimey, top 8.

 

[Bris Vegas]

4 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Saw a post on social media today (hope it wasn't on here and I've gone mental..) Man City would have finished 8th in last years premier league with the same points they've got so far this season.

Blimey, top 8.

 

As big of a Guardiola (and therefore City) fan I am, if you want to be picky over their start one could suggest fixtures have been kind.

In the second half of the season they will have to go to Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, a rejouvinated Everton, Southampton and even Burnley which could be considered tricky games.

Then again, they dominated both Chelsea and United away from home so there is no reason why they can’t do the same at Anfield or The Emirates.

It’s true regarding the top 8 bit. Also, they could beat Man Utd’s points tally (top 6) of last season by game 24 if they carry on winning.

 

 

[Day]

38 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

As big of a Guardiola (and therefore City) fan I am

[needles]

City could advance to the stage they stand in an innovative 2-1-7 formation and play largely zero touch football by telekinesis. Wouldn't give a ****. We're Derby.

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, needles said:

City could advance to the stage they stand in an innovative 2-1-7 formation and play largely zero touch football by telekinesis. Wouldn't give a ****. We're Derby.

Yes we are, but that doesn’t mean you can’t closely follow another team/player/manager etc.

It’s not just Derby. I’m a fan of football in general. I think most on here are hence the anount of threads and posts in the ‘football talk’ section.

 

[needles]

1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

Yes we are, but that doesn’t mean you can’t closely follow another team/player/manager etc.

It’s not just Derby. I’m a fan of football in general. I think most on here are hence the anount of threads and posts in the ‘football talk’ section.

 

Fair enough, not knocking anyone else's enjoyment of anything. For me, I'm getting less of a 'football fan' and more of a Derby County fan as the years go by.

[Day]

I have an interest in football and can find enjoyment from watching other clubs without being a fan of them, I'm a Derby County fan, always have been and always will be.

Can't get my head around being a fan of multiple clubs, one club effecting how I feel on a Saturday night is enough. If Derby go up, play Man City next season which colours would you wear on that day? Boggles the mind, really does.

[Bris Vegas]

38 minutes ago, David said:

I have an interest in football and can find enjoyment from watching other clubs without being a fan of them, I'm a Derby County fan, always have been and always will be.

Can't get my head around being a fan of multiple clubs, one club effecting how I feel on a Saturday night is enough. If Derby go up, play Man City next season which colours would you wear on that day? Boggles the mind, really does.

I’m a fan if Guardiola, his teams and the way they play. 

Derby will always be the only team I genuinely support. ie for life.

I’m also a big fan of Barca, but that’s mainly due to the likes of Iniesta, Messi and prevously Xavi. Take Messi and Iniesta out of their current team and I don’t really have any affection for their other players.

[Bris Vegas]

On 12/10/2017 at 12:28, Bris Vegas said:

City are one win away from outright breaking the PL record for consecutive wins. Up next for them is Paul Clement's Swansea City. I'd find it hilarious if it is his side who are the ones who manage to stop them. 

But hopefully they do it in style with a 0-4 win or something.

Right on cue. 0-4.

City could quite easily have scored eight or nine. Such a one-sided game.

[Jourdan]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if record-breaking City had a record-breaking implosion?

I've watched this City side numerous times and to me, they look nothing special.

With each passing win, City grow and grow in belief but where they are really winning is off the pitch. In a mental sense. In a psychological sense. Every team seems defeated before a ball has even been kicked. How the media and even opposition managers are fawning all over them feeds into that - practically crowning them champions in November, talking about how they are unstoppable and will go unbeaten all season, and that the title race is over with 21 games to go. 

Take Sunday's game, it was as boring as brown bread and no-one could have argued if it had finished 0-0. The post match 'melee' sounded more entertaining. All three goals were calamitous or fortuitous in the extreme, yet football writers were lavishing praise on 'streetwise' City for their measured victory.

Having achieved nothing as it stands, I just think they are being paid too much respect by one and all, and teams are not being brave enough. This isn't the first team we've seen in the Premier League that can attack, control a game, move the ball, and dominate possession in the way they do. So why all the fuss? Go out there with the mentality 'How will City stop us?' and half the battle is won.

For me, they couldn't lay a glove on the Arsenal team of the early 2000s and I personally find other sides in the division and have found past City sides more entertaining, so I just can't warm to them. 

Everything is going their way. How they respond when they lose - now that will be interesting!

[Bris Vegas]

22 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Wouldn't it be hilarious if record-breaking City had a record-breaking implosion?

I've watched this City side numerous times and to me, they look nothing special.

With each passing win, City grow and grow in belief but where they are really winning is off the pitch. In a mental sense. In a psychological sense. Every team seems defeated before a ball has even been kicked. How the media and even opposition managers are fawning all over them feeds into that - practically crowning them champions in November, talking about how they are unstoppable and will go unbeaten all season, and that the title race is over with 21 games to go. 

Take Sunday's game, it was as boring as brown bread and no-one could have argued if it had finished 0-0. The post match 'melee' sounded more entertaining. All three goals were calamitous or fortuitous in the extreme, yet football writers were lavishing praise on 'streetwise' City for their measured victory.

Having achieved nothing as it stands, I just think they are being paid too much respect by one and all, and teams are not being brave enough. This isn't the first team we've seen in the Premier League that can attack, control a game, move the ball, and dominate possession in the way they do. So why all the fuss? Go out there with the mentality 'How will City stop us?' and half the battle is won.

For me, they couldn't lay a glove on the Arsenal team of the early 2000s and I personally find other sides in the division and have found past City sides more entertaining, so I just can't warm to them. 

Everything is going their way. How they respond when they lose - now that will be interesting!

The league must be rubbish then if this City side don’t look anything special and couldn’t lay a glove on an Arsenal side who won the title with about 80 points.

[Jourdan]

11 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

The league must be rubbish then if this City side don’t look anything special and couldn’t lay a glove on an Arsenal side who won the title with about 80 points.

Arsenal won the title in 2003-04 with 90 points. 26 x 3 = 78, 12 x 1 = 12, 78 + 12 = 90. Quick maths, as the kids say.

How can this City side be mentioned in the same breath? For me, it's not even close.

When Wenger managed the Invincibles, they achieved it at a time when Ferguson and United were still very much at large, a United team that typically dwarfed everyone in performance and spending power. They achieved it at a time when they weren't overwhelming favourites or the biggest spenders. Chelsea and United were far more prominent in that sense. 

With players like Henry, Pires, Ljungberg, Bergkamp and Vieira and Wenger at the helm - it was a team underlined by its class, humility, charm and above all, its mesmerising technical football. Arsenal's team were impossible not to like and a triumph for football and for football fans.

Ticker tape in the dressing room after the 16th game of the season? For me, Pep's City just seem a bit crass and reek of arrogance and cynics will quite rightly point out that all their success underlines nothing more than if you throw enough £50 notes and Tactics for Dummies manuals at it, something will eventually stick.

The league is not rubbish. It's more a case of many teams not performing to their potential and again, like I said, everything seemingly going City's way.

[cannable]

I don’t really think the amount of money City have spent should be used to bash Pep. Teams have shown more often than not, ourselves included, that having money to spend is as much a curse as it is a blessing.

It’s hard to build a team to match your style and who will fit into your system. He’s augmented what was already there with players that will mesh with them and fit into one system. He’s then coached it into a monster.

The money gives him the pick of almost any player in the world but it’s still no mean feat getting the right players in.

He’s signed well, he’s coached well and above all he’s built. 

[Bob Gnarly]

11 hours ago, needles said:

Fair enough, not knocking anyone else's enjoyment of anything. For me, I'm getting less of a 'football fan' and more of a Derby County Hoofball fan as the years go by.

FTFY

[ramsbottom]

9 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Arsenal won the title in 2003-04 with 90 points. 26 x 3 = 78, 12 x 1 = 12, 78 + 12 = 90. Quick maths, as the kids say.

How can this City side be mentioned in the same breath? For me, it's not even close.

When Wenger managed the Invincibles, they achieved it at a time when Ferguson and United were still very much at large, a United team that typically dwarfed everyone in performance and spending power. They achieved it at a time when they weren't overwhelming favourites or the biggest spenders. Chelsea and United were far more prominent in that sense. 

With players like Henry, Pires, Ljungberg, Bergkamp and Vieira and Wenger at the helm - it was a team underlined by its class, humility, charm and above all, its mesmerising technical football. Arsenal's team were impossible not to like and a triumph for football and for football fans.

Ticker tape in the dressing room after the 16th game of the season? For me, Pep's City just seem a bit crass and reek of arrogance and cynics will quite rightly point out that all their success underlines nothing more than if you throw enough £50 notes and Tactics for Dummies manuals at it, something will eventually stick.

The league is not rubbish. It's more a case of many teams not performing to their potential and again, like I said, everything seemingly going City's way.

Look, I don't like the nouveau riche way they go about things either, but you can't deny they aren't a good side.  Also, I don't get where you're coming from when you say they're arrogant.  Just because they celebrated humbling their biggest rivals???  Screw what Jose' says, they won, they can celebrate how they want.  All this is a classic Mourinho smoke screen to divert attention away from the fact he f00ked up his tactics, and his side played poorly.  I didn't see them rubbing Swansea's noses in it last night, I just saw a far superior team going about it's business.  It galls me slightly that Bris is getting endless stroking material out of Cit-eh's casual stroll to the title, but you're embarrassing yourself by refusing to admit they aren't a class team.  Wenger was the Pep of that time, he was a genuine pioneer, but everyone eventually copied his methods and improved on them.  The same will happen with Pep in time, but right now, nobodies figured out how to.  

[Day]

15 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Wenger was the Pep of that time, he was a genuine pioneer, but everyone eventually copied his methods and improved on them.  The same will happen with Pep in time, but right now, nobodies figured out how to.

Or has the financial backing to allow them.

Barca, had some of the best players in the world, in fact he had literally the world's 2nd most naturally gifted player right there. Bayern Munich, some of the best players in the world, Man City an absolute obscene amount of money.

Guardiola is no fool, far from it but I can't help but wonder if a number of other managers with the same resources could walk the league in similar fashion?

Now I'm not a big Sam fan, far from it but his record cannot be denied at the foot of the table, would love to see a big club to give him a chance at the top with £200m on full backs, see what he can do, and Guardiola take a club near the foot of the table, nowhere near the same resources, no world class players to pick from.

Would never happen, but unless it does I don't think I can fall at Guardiola's feet like others, harsh? Probably.

A compromise would have been the Arsenal job under a tight financial leash, whilst it's widely reported Wenger chooses not to use the money available, I don't see them ever going all out the way Man City owners have allowed him.

[Mostyn6]

40 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

It galls me slightly that Bris is getting endless stroking material out of Cit-eh's casual stroll to the title

that's the thing, it's both inaccurate and disrespectful to suggest they are strolling. They are outworking every team. This is not solely a skill, flair, ability based run, it's all about desire and endeavour, team-work and attitude.

[ramsbottom]

31 minutes ago, David said:

Or has the financial backing to allow them.

Barca, had some of the best players in the world, in fact he had literally the world's 2nd most naturally gifted player right there. Bayern Munich, some of the best players in the world, Man City an absolute obscene amount of money.

Guardiola is no fool, far from it but I can't help but wonder if a number of other managers with the same resources could walk the league in similar fashion?

Now I'm not a big Sam fan, far from it but his record cannot be denied at the foot of the table, would love to see a big club to give him a chance at the top with £200m on full backs, see what he can do, and Guardiola take a club near the foot of the table, nowhere near the same resources, no world class players to pick from.

Would never happen, but unless it does I don't think I can fall at Guardiola's feet like others, harsh? Probably.

A compromise would have been the Arsenal job under a tight financial leash, whilst it's widely reported Wenger chooses not to use the money available, I don't see them ever going all out the way Man City owners have allowed him.

I'm not to worship at the alter of pep believe me.  Could he do the same with West Brom on a tenth of Cit-eh's budget, I very much doubt it.  Just pointing to the fact that Jourdan's looking a bit daft by denying the fact, they're a class outfit at the moment.

15 minutes ago, Moist One said:

that's the thing, it's both inaccurate and disrespectful to suggest they are strolling. They are outworking every team. This is not solely a skill, flair, ability based run, it's all about desire and endeavour, team-work and attitude.

On Sunday, Henry made a point in highlighting that the way they press makes it very difficult for them to be counted on.  When you know what to look for, it's very impressive the way they do it.  Having said that, I watched the Leicester highlights last night and thought the pace at which they can counter, could actually cause them problems.

[Jourdan]

2 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

Look, I don't like the nouveau riche way they go about things either, but you can't deny they aren't a good side.  Also, I don't get where you're coming from when you say they're arrogant.  Just because they celebrated humbling their biggest rivals???  Screw what Jose' says, they won, they can celebrate how they want.  All this is a classic Mourinho smoke screen to divert attention away from the fact he f00ked up his tactics, and his side played poorly.  I didn't see them rubbing Swansea's noses in it last night, I just saw a far superior team going about it's business.  It galls me slightly that Bris is getting endless stroking material out of Cit-eh's casual stroll to the title, but you're embarrassing yourself by refusing to admit they aren't a class team.  Wenger was the Pep of that time, he was a genuine pioneer, but everyone eventually copied his methods and improved on them.  The same will happen with Pep in time, but right now, nobodies figured out how to.  

I never said they weren't a good side. I just said they weren't anything special. And to me, they aren't. Will they be remembered in the same way Arsenal's Invincibles are? Will they be remembered in the same way Ranieri's Leicester are? In the same way Fergie's dominant United are?

Of course, it was arrogant. Were they celebrating a rare victory against their biggest rivals? No. Because they have beaten Manchester United before and in much more devastating fashion. They were celebrating the title race being over in their minds. After 16 games. That is arrogant.

While I agree United were poor, were City that much better? Again, it was a very poor advert for the Premier League and could have easily finished 0-0.

What is embarrassing by allowing things to play out? Sure, of course, if come May, they are title winners and they have gone unbeaten all season, you give credit where it's due and admit you were wrong.

But right now, I stand by my opinion and I'm merely contributing to the debate. The hyperbole is too strong where City are concerned. But come May, if they have continued to dominate the league in the same vein, yes I will give them all the credit they deserve and admit that Bris was right and I was wrong.

I don't care for being right. There have been numerous times where I've come out and held my hands up to that fact. I'm sure in the case of Pep, it won't be too far away if they continue to perform like this.