RoyMac5 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 30 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: Ask a heroin addict if prevention works..... So you think they should let them play the gambling equivalent of methadone?! Of course it won't cure their addiction, but it will make it harder for them to lose all their money so quickly. They aren't good for anyone but the bookies - where's their duty of care to their customer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: So you think they should let them play the gambling equivalent of methadone?! Of course it won't cure their addiction, but it will make it harder for them to lose all their money so quickly. They aren't good for anyone but the bookies - where's their duty of care to their customer? I'll ask the two questions, who makes someone place a bet? And who places it? Banning one form will not change anything in my opinion. Republic of Ireland have no FOBT and there's plenty of addicts over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: I'll ask the two questions, who makes someone place a bet? And who places it? Banning one form will not change anything in my opinion. Republic of Ireland have no FOBT and there's plenty of addicts over there. Whatever. If we knew what causes addiction it'd be easy to fix, but we don't so we have to do it 'the hard way'. People need protecting, where's the business ethics. That's all from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: I'll ask the two questions, who makes someone place a bet? And who places it? Banning one form will not change anything in my opinion. Republic of Ireland have no FOBT and there's plenty of addicts over there. I've never seen a FOBT let alone used one. They are a tool used to exploit the weak. What is gained by leaving them unrestricted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I've never seen a FOBT let alone used one. They are a tool used to exploit the weak. What is gained by leaving them unrestricted? I'm weak and powerless to gambling. I always ask the same 2 questions. Who makes us bet? Who places the bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I've never seen a FOBT let alone used one. They are a tool used to exploit the weak. What is gained by leaving them unrestricted? Without them pretty much every high street bookies would close. Saying that, lots ofor bookies have appeared in the high streets over the last decade purely to house these FOBTs. I guess the income from business rates and employments costs are a big factor in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Whatever. If we knew what causes addiction it'd be easy to fix, but we don't so we have to do it 'the hard way'. People need protecting, where's the business ethics. That's all from me. It is hard..... but it's about being responsible, you can put all the bans, barriers in place..... an addict will find a way if they want to bet. If we banned all gambling they'll still be addicts. No one thinks what happens after prevention. Judging by the whatever you don't want to answer the 2 questions posed. Maybe because we know how "hard" it is. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Mafiabob said: Agree. Problem with the lobbyists regarding FOBT is run mainly by Fairer Gambling...... bloke who pulls the strings is David Webb, give him a google ans see why he really is interested in these banned. He's far from being the only person or group lobbying against FOBTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: He's far from being the only person or group lobbying against FOBTs He's the main player..... Matt Zarb Cousins is his media man. Had an exchange on twitter earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: He's the main player..... Matt Zarb Cousins is his media man. Had an exchange on twitter earlier. Not sure about that. I deal with BACTA and they are very big on the lobbying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Not sure about that. I deal with BACTA and they are very big on the lobbying. ABB and BACTA at each other's throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: I'm weak and powerless to gambling. I always ask the same 2 questions. Who makes us bet? Who places the bet? But clearly today you arent wesk and powerless. In the past you were. How much harder could rebuilding your life had been if you'd had the effect of being out of control with FOBTs to contend with, on top of everything else? If the only good they offer is that exploiting the weak allows the high street bookie to stay open, do we really want the high street bookie any longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: ABB and BACTA at each other's throats. Unsurprisingly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, GboroRam said: But clearly today you arent wesk and powerless. In the past you were. How much harder could rebuilding your life had been if you'd had the effect of being out of control with FOBTs to contend with, on top of everything else? If the only good they offer is that exploiting the weak allows the high street bookie to stay open, do we really want the high street bookie any longer? That's your conclusion they exploit the weak but you've never seen one. I was gambling when FOBTS are in.... it's just another form of gambling. Banning one thing will not help addicts. No one seems to answer the two questions I always lose who are anti FOBT. Millions upon millions gamble responsibly, I know I never can. It's up to the individual to seek that help, and want it. There is plenty of places. Education is the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Unsurprisingly! It's in the casinos interest for FOBTS to go..... they want the slice of the action. No one cares about what happens to addicts after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: It's in the casinos interest for FOBTS to go..... they want the slice of the action. No one cares about what happens to addicts after. Of course, why should high street bookies have preferential treatment over casinos (or adult gaming centres that are much more stringently regulated)? If ABB are arguing that reducing stakes would lead to huge closures then are these places even bookmakers? Or are they casinos parading as bookmakers? I think I read that 65% of their income is from FOBTs. If people were not so interested in the gambler then surely they would be lobbying for everyone to be allowed to increase maximum stakes to £100 rather than having them reduced to £2 across the board? Just out of interest is there any evidence that David Webb would benefit from a reduction in stakes? I thought he had retired from the industry but may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Of course, why should high street bookies have preferential treatment over casinos (or adult gaming centres that are much more stringently regulated)? If ABB are arguing that reducing stakes would lead to huge closures then are these places even bookmakers? Or are they casinos parading as bookmakers? I think I read that 65% of their income is from FOBTs. If people were not so interested in the gambler then surely they would be lobbying for everyone to be allowed to increase maximum stakes to £100 rather than having them reduced to £2 across the board? Just out of interest is there any evidence that David Webb would benefit from a reduction in stakes? I thought he had retired from the industry but may be wrong. Still has his interests I believe, also donating to political parties for his interest in the lobbying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: Still has his interests I believe, also donating to political parties for his interest in the lobbying.... Or ABB are using that as a smoke screen? Webb claims to have never benefited from gambling machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Mafiabob said: I'll ask the two questions, who makes someone place a bet? And who places it? Banning one form will not change anything in my opinion. Republic of Ireland have no FOBT and there's plenty of addicts over there. Poker machines and roulette machines seem to be in a number of places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Mafiabob said: I'll ask the two questions, who makes someone place a bet? And who places it? Banning one form will not change anything in my opinion. Republic of Ireland have no FOBT and there's plenty of addicts over there. May sound a silly question but... To be an addict does there have to be something to be addicted to? Or is it a personality trait that means you will find something to become addicted to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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