View from the outside

[TigerTedd]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Already explained why I think he didn't stay down and appeal.

If he's gone down expecting contact that didn't happen then it's a dive.

 

I know his reasons for jumping back up we’re cos he didn’t get the contact he expected, and knew it would be construed as a dive with no contact. So he jumped back up, so no one could call it a dive. He didn’t claim for anything, he didn’t make a meal of it. Yet you’re still insisting it’s a dive and worthy of a booking. 

Leaping over mid air and staying down expecting a penalty, that’s a dive. Leaping over mid air, when you were assuming there’d be a foot there, then realising it was mid air, and jumping straight back up, is not a dive (in my book anyway). 

And forcing the foul, or playing for the foul, when there’s nothing else on is not diving either. That’s just clever play. Martin did it all the time. If there’s nothing else on, what can you do for your team? Force the defender to foul you. A foul is a foul. If you’re clever enough to be able to position yourself in such a way that it forces the defender into  mistake, then we’ll done to you. 

I reckon Wilson thought he’d forced the defender into fouling him, was ready to collapse in a heap, then quickly realised the defender didn’t take the bait, and had pulled out of the challenge. Too late to stop his momentum to ground, but not to late to leap straight back up. Touché to the defender, you win this round. But no dive. 

And if, if, you could argue that he should get a yellow for that, then he got his first one unfairly. The Wigan twit bought the ‘headbutt’, Wilson puts his head down to walk away, the Wigan player moves his head into the space where Harry’s head is about to be. The Wigan player essentially dives, making a big meal of it. And that is diving, he’s making a meal of it, he’s trying to fool the ref, and he succeeds. Still not sure how they both ended up with yellow cards. They can’t both be in the wrong. Either the Wigan guy was play-acting, or Wilson actually did headbutt him. 

[ThePrisoner]

This thread has turned into views from the inside. 

[BathRam72]

24 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I know his reasons for jumping back up we’re cos he didn’t get the contact he expected, and knew it would be construed as a dive with no contact. So he jumped back up, so no one could call it a dive. He didn’t claim for anything, he didn’t make a meal of it. Yet you’re still insisting it’s a dive and worthy of a booking. 

Leaping over mid air and staying down expecting a penalty, that’s a dive. Leaping over mid air, when you were assuming there’d be a foot there, then realising it was mid air, and jumping straight back up, is not a dive (in my book anyway). 

And forcing the foul, or playing for the foul, when there’s nothing else on is not diving either. That’s just clever play. Martin did it all the time. If there’s nothing else on, what can you do for your team? Force the defender to foul you. A foul is a foul. If you’re clever enough to be able to position yourself in such a way that it forces the defender into  mistake, then we’ll done to you. 

I reckon Wilson thought he’d forced the defender into fouling him, was ready to collapse in a heap, then quickly realised the defender didn’t take the bait, and had pulled out of the challenge. Too late to stop his momentum to ground, but not to late to leap straight back up. Touché to the defender, you win this round. But no dive. 

And if, if, you could argue that he should get a yellow for that, then he got his first one unfairly. The Wigan twit bought the ‘headbutt’, Wilson puts his head down to walk away, the Wigan player moves his head into the space where Harry’s head is about to be. The Wigan player essentially dives, making a big meal of it. And that is diving, he’s making a meal of it, he’s trying to fool the ref, and he succeeds. Still not sure how they both ended up with yellow cards. They can’t both be in the wrong. Either the Wigan guy was play-acting, or Wilson actually did headbutt him. 

If you leap over mid air and go down. Then you are either going down with the sole purpose of duping the officials into awarding a free kick or you are just rubbish.

If I jump in or over mid air, I don't go down.

[SaintRam]

22 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said:

This thread has turned into views from the inside. 

Often does. 

[minesahartington]

10 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

If you leap over mid air and go down. Then you are either going down with the sole purpose of duping the officials into awarding a free kick or you are just rubbish.

If I jump in or over mid air, I don't go down.

I never used to go down but nowadays it’s inevitable.

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, BathRam72 said:

If you leap over mid air and go down. Then you are either going down with the sole purpose of duping the officials into awarding a free kick or you are just rubbish.

If I jump in or over mid air, I don't go down.

These days you have to go down if there’s contact, or you won’t get the peno, even if it is a foul. See one of Salah’s goals at the weekend. There was a clear foul on him as he ran in on goal, he kept on his feet, and was able to score in the end. But if he hadn’t have scored, it wouldn’t have been pulled back for a free kick, cos he didn’t go down. 

If the goals on, stay on your feet, but if the balls getting away from you, and you can see a challenge incoming, you kick the ball away a bit, and brace yourself for impact, taking the foul, and warning the free kick. 

In this case, Wilson’s probably assumed impact, thought he might win a penalty here, started to crumple, then realised there hasn’t actually been any impact and jumped back up. 

I don’t know the inner workings of his brain, just playing devils advocate really. I think it’s a bit unfair to say he dived, when he ultimately didn’t try to profit from it, he jumped back up and got on with the game. 

If it’s only the threat of a yellow card that got him to leap back to his feet, then welll done to him, that’s quick thinking. A lot of footballers wouldn’t be that clever. 

[Ambitious]

6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Already explained why I think he didn't stay down and appeal.

If he's gone down expecting contact that didn't happen then it's a dive.

 

But on the replay it showed on Rams TV, you can see him standing the defender up, make a move to go past him but digs the tip of his boot into the turf which jolts him forward onto his knees, he scrambles himself back up in a dog crawl motion to try and get the ball but it runs out of play. I just went to see if it was on the replay on the website (it's not), but managed to get a good screenshot of the lawrence 'dive' - the Wigan player has literally gone through the middle of his body. I'm not sure you get any closer to a stone wall penalty than that.

It's quite telling the reaction of the Wigan players straight after. James just completely stops expecting the whistle and when it doesn't come he panics and loses the ball to Marriott. 

[ram59]

22 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

But on the replay it showed on Rams TV, you can see him standing the defender up, make a move to go past him but digs the tip of his boot into the turf which jolts him forward onto his knees, he scrambles himself back up in a dog crawl motion to try and get the ball but it runs out of play. I just went to see if it was on the replay on the website (it's not), but managed to get a good screenshot of the lawrence 'dive' - the Wigan player has literally gone through the middle of his body. I'm not sure you get any closer to a stone wall penalty than that.

It's quite telling the reaction of the Wigan players straight after. James just completely stops expecting the whistle and when it doesn't come he panics and loses the ball to Marriott. 

This IS'NT the incident we're talking about. The incident took place at the other end right in front of the Derby fans. Incidentally, it was interesting that although it took place right in front of over 2,000 Derby fans, there was little reaction from those fans who only started booing after the Wigan players surrounded the ref, trying to get Wilson sent off. 

I think the ref believed Wilson dived but couldn't be 100%. Had he not already have been on a yellow, it would have made his decision easier. 

[SuperFrankieL]

I agree with TigerTedd. I don't see how Wilson deserved to get one yellow let alone the two that is being argued by some here. It's a pretty common occurrence for players to go down expecting contact but not receiving it. He didn't try to deceive the officials or anyone so that's clearly not a yellow. As for why the first yellow was given, I still haven't the faintest idea. He was kicked while he was down and got up and walked over to Morsy who then felt contact from Wilson's head when there was absolutely none... If Wilsons's getting a yellow in that scenario, it's for something he did surely? He can't have got a yellow for going upto Morsy? If that's the case, there'd be 20 yellows every match. If Morsy's been given a yellow for wrongfully asking the assistant to send Wilson off then how does Wilson get a yellow? Inconsistent and incompetent reffing in that incident clear as daylight. Following this, there was not a foul given to Derby for Morsy stomping all over Wilson in the first place.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

But on the replay it showed on Rams TV, you can see him standing the defender up, make a move to go past him but digs the tip of his boot into the turf which jolts him forward onto his knees, he scrambles himself back up in a dog crawl motion to try and get the ball but it runs out of play. I just went to see if it was on the replay on the website (it's not), but managed to get a good screenshot of the lawrence 'dive' - the Wigan player has literally gone through the middle of his body. I'm not sure you get any closer to a stone wall penalty than that.

It's quite telling the reaction of the Wigan players straight after. James just completely stops expecting the whistle and when it doesn't come he panics and loses the ball to Marriott. 

That one deffo a foul but it was the one at the other end where there's no contact at all

[Ambitious]

14 minutes ago, Alpha said:

That one deffo a foul but it was the one at the other end where there's no contact at all

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

This IS'NT the incident we're talking about. The incident took place at the other end right in front of the Derby fans. Incidentally, it was interesting that although it took place right in front of over 2,000 Derby fans, there was little reaction from those fans who only started booing after the Wigan players surrounded the ref, trying to get Wilson sent off. 

I think the ref believed Wilson dived but couldn't be 100%. Had he not already have been on a yellow, it would have made his decision easier. 

I am very aware this isn't the incident we're talking about, hence my statement:

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

But on the replay it showed on Rams TV, you can see him standing the defender up, make a move to go past him but digs the tip of his boot into the turf which jolts him forward onto his knees, he scrambles himself back up in a dog crawl motion to try and get the ball but it runs out of play. I just went to see if it was on the replay on the website (it's not), but managed to get a good screenshot of the lawrence 'dive' - the Wigan player has literally gone through the middle of his body. I'm not sure you get any closer to a stone wall penalty than that.

It's quite telling the reaction of the Wigan players straight after. James just completely stops expecting the whistle and when it doesn't come he panics and loses the ball to Marriott. 

The Wilson incident, I already pointed out as I watched the game on Rams TV and when they slowed it down to show the replay, you saw the tip of his boot dig into the ground which jolted him forward to which he put both hands down to stop himself going any further then he proceeded to scramble like a dog to his feet to chase the ball going out of play. 

He clearly kicks the floor which causes him to fall, this was evident on the replay that they slowed down. He also at no point looks back at the ref, puts his arms in the air or does anything remotely to suggest that he was looking for it - even if you missed the part of him kicking the floor. He could well have been the first player I can remember being sent off for tripping himself up though. 

The Lawrence foul, which I took the screenshot of, is very much a penalty and they have the audacity to say the ref gave us everything. 

[TigerTedd]

6 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I am very aware this isn't the incident we're talking about, hence my statement:

The Wilson incident, I already pointed out as I watched the game on Rams TV and when they slowed it down to show the replay, you saw the tip of his boot dig into the ground which jolted him forward to which he put both hands down to stop himself going any further then he proceeded to scramble like a dog to his feet to chase the ball going out of play. 

He clearly kicks the floor which causes him to fall, this was evident on the replay that they slowed down. He also at no point looks back at the ref, puts his arms in the air or does anything remotely to suggest that he was looking for it - even if you missed the part of him kicking the floor. He could well have been the first player I can remember being sent off for tripping himself up though. 

The Lawrence foul, which I took the screenshot of, is very much a penalty and they have the audacity to say the ref gave us everything. 

So all my defending of Wilson using my degree in amateur psychology and vast experience of watching the bbc text commentary, and really it seems like a pretty clear cut trip, based on this testimony. Case closed m’lud. No dive. 

[cheron85]

9 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Why are we concerned about what Wigan fans think? - folk up there know far more about Rugby League than I do, but football? they know jack all....it's always been a rugby town and that's all it will ever be - and if it hadn't been for Dave 'I broke my leg in the Cup Final' Whelan and his millions, the club would have probably dropped out of the football league years ago....

Why are we concerned about what @G STAR RAM thinks more like? Eh? EH? EHEHEHEH?!?!?! Bloomin' half fans with their "reasonable and entitled opinions" when we're all supposed to be blindly agreeing that Wilson is some kind of footballing messiah

(not a dig at you - just always find it amusing when these threads descend into arguments just because someone posits as perfectly reasonable opinion)

[MK]

Bringing this thread back to it's purpose -  a few pre-match thoughts from the creatures down the road:

"If we are forced to play Osborne at LB again, it could get embarrassing for us."

"A bit more than a week ago I'd have said win, now I think we'll lose.  Can't see anything else with the available defenders."

"Derby away, Norwich away, and Leeds at home in our next 5 games. Defeat at Derby could start a run that sees us off the play off pace at the end of the year. " - Gets my vote!

[BramcoteRam84]

The red dogs at work are still quite confident. They’re worried about their defence but know we can’t defend either! See fat boy burns has talked about the huge holes in our defence, and Grabban will be best striker on the pitch!  Let’s hope the forest defenders understimate jacky boy as Kenny clearly has

[Ghost of Clough]

33 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

The red dogs at work are still quite confident. They’re worried about their defence but know we can’t defend either! See fat boy burns has talked about the huge holes in our defence, and Grabban will be best striker on the pitch!  Let’s hope the forest defenders understimate jacky boy as Kenny clearly has

Struggle to keep a clean sheet (typical with young lads I suppose), but still joint 5th best defence in the league.

Our defence has been largely unchanged this season (so you’d expect to perform at a similar standard, whereas I’m guessing Forest’s 3rd best defence has stumbled across some injury troubles (and will perform at a lower standard). 

[BramcoteRam84]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Struggle to keep a clean sheet (typical with young lads I suppose), but still joint 5th best defence in the league.

Our defence has been largely unchanged this season (so you’d expect to perform at a similar standard, whereas I’m guessing Forest’s 3rd best defence has stumbled across some injury troubles (and will perform at a lower standard). 

For me all we’re missing is an aerially dominant centre half with Curtis out. Keogh does his best to play the role but he’s a better sweeper playing alongside someone who will attack the ball. I love Tomori but he can’t head the ball to save his life. 

But you’re right much has been made of our lack of clean sheets but barring the Leeds and Villa matches we’ve been reasonably solid.

im expecting a good contest 

[Paese]

12 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

The red dogs at work are still quite confident. They’re worried about their defence but know we can’t defend either! See fat boy burns has talked about the huge holes in our defence, and Grabban will be best striker on the pitch!  Let’s hope the forest defenders understimate jacky boy as Kenny clearly has

To be fair, Grabban is on good form at the minute and will be a huge threat. But, I think you'll find the best striker on the pitch will be Waghorn (if playing). Just kidding, can't wait for Grabban to barely touch the ball and Marriott to smash a hattrick...

[Edtheram]

I think Derby are very underestimated this season. Villa and Forest have again splashed the cash and we are again above both. We have the 4th best home form in the league and 5th best away i think so our league position speaks for its self. Kenny burns can say what he wants weve lost 2 in 12 and won at Wigan who had a very good home record keeping a clean sheet, defence doesn't seem too bad. We have exciting youth. They bought Grabban for 6 Million hes 30 - hes only going down in value. We have Marriott who is only 24 and already banging in the goals give him 3 years and see how good he is. Im excited by us, If we play how we can im confident. if we play below 80% it could become difficult.

[WystonRam]

On 11/12/2018 at 19:44, BramcoteRam84 said:

The red dogs at work are still quite confident. They’re worried about their defence but know we can’t defend either! See fat boy burns has talked about the huge holes in our defence, and Grabban will be best striker on the pitch!  Let’s hope the forest defenders understimate jacky boy as Kenny clearly has

Grabban is currently the leagues top scorer with 14.