Sparkle Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 51 minutes ago, sage said: Most? Would you like to name 12 current senior players who have only had 1 good season out of 6? There are a lot at Nottingham forest but I couldn't tell you the good year! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, Sparkle said: There are a lot at Nottingham forest but I couldn't tell you the good year! ? Sad thing is after spending £30-40 million over the last couple of seasons and fawaz doing whatever the hell he was doing we are both still in the same league and all bets are off with the start of a new season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 50 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: It was a bit of a sarcastic tongue in cheek comment but you would have to define a good season first. is being in a promotion team good? Being in a relegated team from the prem good? Individual performance rating? Goals scored? Assists? Goals conceded? havent seen most of these players play every game at their respective clubs for the last 6 years either. If you ask some of our fans, Martin is rubbish, Ince was lazy, Carson can't command his box and keoghs our sole reason for failing the last few years! i could give you my personal names but means jack really, as most opinions tend to unless they are the same as yours ?✌ So you weren't being serious and have any evidence to back it up. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Millenniumram said: About the same success rate as Chris Martin at the same age then We didn't pay £8m for Chris Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, sage said: We didn't pay £8m for Chris Martin. Does that really make any odds on whether fans should give him a chance? It isn't vydras fault we played that much for him, and it shouldn't mean that our fans write him off having already seen the turnaround Martin made with a similar history. Blame the fees paid on the person who paid them, not the players themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Does that really make any odds on whether fans should give him a chance? It isn't vydras fault we played that much for him, and it shouldn't mean that our fans write him off having already seen the turnaround Martin made with a similar matter. Blame the fees paid on the person who paid them, not the players themselves It's not his fault but in FFP terms it's a nightmare if it doesn't work out and we decide to sell. Ramblur is the expert on this but selling someone at a big loss affects FFP for the length of their contract. Obviously we could see how he pans out but he will be on serious wages (much more than CMs) original contract). His previous success was playing as part of 2 up front but we don't have the midfield to play 442 so it was a bad buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, sage said: So you weren't being serious and have any evidence to back it up. Fair enough. Same as you can't back up who has matey ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: Same as you can't back up who has matey ? Eh? You made the claim not me. However... Keogh Baird Forsyth Davies Wisdom Nugent Huddlestone shackell Bryson Johnson Russell Martin Carson Olsson Anya and Pearce have all been more consistent. Butterfield and Weimann probably equally consistent. Blackman less so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, sage said: It's not his fault but in FFP terms it's a nightmare if it doesn't work out and we decide to sell. Ramblur is the expert on this but selling someone at a big loss affects FFP for the length of their contract. Obviously we could see how he pans out but he will be on serious wages (much more than CMs) original contract). His previous success was playing as part of 2 up front but we don't have the midfield to play 442 so it was a bad buy. Can't say I have much clue on the ffp side of things, but I could imagine selling him now at a big loss which it would have to be would have negative reprecussions on that side of things compared to keeping him around. I can see the issue with wages, but if that's a serious problem I would say selling bent (who I'm led to believe is on very similar terms) would make much more Sense as we wouldn't be making a loss on him, and he's a player in decline compared to vydra who's career is just heading into its prime. Didnt see a lot of Watford in their promotion season, but I'm fairly certain vydra played in the number 10 in a 4231, not in a 442, playing off a big man in Deeney, which is pretty much exactly what we're setting up for with Martin up front. Surely it's worth keeping him around rather than making a 4 million loss or something on him, regardless of how good you think he is, to see whether he can regain his form in his favoured role?! We saw some very positive signs when he played their last year, there's no reason imo why he can't hit 15/20 goals in the right system this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Can't say I have much clue on the ffp side of things, but I could imagine selling him now at a big loss which it would have to be would have negative reprecussions on that side of things compared to keeping him around. I can see the issue with wages, but if that's a serious problem I would say selling bent (who I'm led to believe is on very similar terms) would make much more Sense as we wouldn't be making a loss on him, and he's a player in decline compared to vydra who's career is just heading into its prime. Didnt see a lot of Watford in their promotion season, but I'm fairly certain vydra played in the number 10 in a 4231, not in a 442, playing off a big man in Deeney, which is pretty much exactly what we're setting up for with Martin up front. Surely it's worth keeping him around rather than making a 4 million loss or something on him, regardless of how good you think he is, to see whether he can regain his form in his favoured role?! We saw some very positive signs when he played their last year, there's no reason imo why he can't hit 15/20 goals in the right system this season 4231 in the way that Nugent and Martin have played it in pre season friendlies may help him but tbh unless the number 10 plays deeper than Nugent has been doing we will get overrun in midfield against most championship teams. GR is looking at CAM like Toral and Jota. I don't think Vydra is a good enough footballer to play that attacking midfield number 10. Would love to be proved wrong and he scores 20 goals behind CM and we finish top 6 but i can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, sage said: Eh? You made the claim not me. However... Keogh Baird Forsyth Davies Wisdom Nugent Huddlestone shackell Bryson Johnson Russell Martin Carson Olsson Anya and Pearce have all been more consistent. Butterfield and Weimann probably equally consistent. Blackman less so. Who said consistent? You said good and couldn't define what good looks like. hanson, Mitchell, Olson, elsnick, shackell, Bryson, Johnson, Butterfield, Blackman Anya, Pearce, huddlestone Davies, Forsyth, Baird, weimann, Bennett. gave you 17 that haven't had 2 GOOD seasons from either relegation, failed promotions, bottling it, poor stats and performance scores and failing to do what was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: Who said consistent? You said good and couldn't define what good looks like. hanson, Mitchell, Olson, elsnick, shackell, Bryson, Johnson, Butterfield, Blackman Anya, Pearce, huddlestone Davies, Forsyth, Baird, weimann, Bennett. gave you 17 that haven't had 2 GOOD seasons from either relegation, failed promotions, bottling it, poor stats and performance scores and failing to do what was needed. Hilarious. 4 of them are youth players to start off. Desperate times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 40 minutes ago, sage said: 4231 in the way that Nugent and Martin have played it in pre season friendlies may help him but tbh unless the number 10 plays deeper than Nugent has been doing we will get overrun in midfield against most championship teams. GR is looking at CAM like Toral and Jota. I don't think Vydra is a good enough footballer to play that attacking midfield number 10. Would love to be proved wrong and he scores 20 goals behind CM and we finish top 6 but i can't see it. On paper you would say we'd get overrun, but actually I don't think we'd be in as much problem as it seems if we have thorne and huddlestone in the two behind- they may not be fast, but the both read the game brilliantly and I don't think much will get past them. Id disagree entirely on your second point but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there, imo vydra is technically excellent, just hasn't had the chance to show it. In reality no one knows how we'll set up, I'd say it appears more likely nuge will be behind Martin, but we'll have to wait till Sunderland to know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: On paper you would say we'd get overrun, but actually I don't think we'd be in as much problem as it seems if we have thorne and huddlestone in the two behind- they may not be fast, but the both read the game brilliantly and I don't think much will get past them. Id disagree entirely on your second point but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there, imo vydra is technically excellent, just hasn't had the chance to show it. In reality no one knows how we'll set up, I'd say it appears more likely nuge will be behind Martin, but we'll have to wait till Sunderland to know for sure. By a good enough footballer I mean he isn't creative for others. His control, dribbling ability and passing aren't that of a CAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EulogyForEvolution Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I'm still waiting on seeing Vydra and Martin play together. I wouldn't want to see him go before we try it. I'd love it to work like the Vydra/Deeney partnership. Maybe with Martin in the hole and Vydra on the shoulder of the last defender. Old fashioned - big man/little man up top! Haven't really seen that since Hulse/Commons and that worked out pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I'm just getting a nagging feeling we'll sell a few in the final days before the window shuts, as other clubs start feeling a need to do something over doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: I'm just getting a nagging feeling we'll sell a few in the final days before the window shuts, as other clubs start feeling a need to do something over doing nothing. That's a good thing as long as we don't give them away for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsPolls Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Why does everyone want Vydra gone? The lad was unreal when playing for Watford. He can be one of the best finishers in the league when on his day. Granted he hasn't had his day for a while but he has the talent. He's still on 25 as well. If I was Derby, i'd release Bent from his contract on the final day of the window if no one wants to buy him. Blackman I'd just flog to any league one team willing to spend over £100,000 on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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