Jackson Irvine - Signed for Hull City

[Mistaram]

59 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Just playing devils advocate

but isnt that exactly what we havent got in midfield ?

Couldn't agree more!

[Jack Willow]

28 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Sorry in midfield who are our enegetic midfielders? 

Bryson, Johnson and Butterfield are frankly all bang average box-to-box midfielders, with almost no creativity and with no flair.

The only thing they are good in; is just running. Running, running, running...endless running. Like marathon men.

Russell and Weimann are both converted forwards.

They also are just ordinary runners. No end product, no trickery, no flair.

You need people who know what to do with the ball, who have the vision and can create something on the pitch.

[NottsRam77]

19 minutes ago, lioncoeur said:

Bryson, Johnson and Butterfield are frankly all bang average box-to-box midfielders, with almost no creativity and with no flair.

The only thing they are good in; is just running. Running, running, running...endless running. Like marathon men.

Russell and Weimann are both converted forwards.

They also are just ordinary runners. No end product, no trickery, no flair.

You need people who know what to do with the ball, who have the vision and can create something on the pitch.

 

Agree totally on weimann and russell, 

Butterfield is no box to box midfielder, if i was describing him its a deep lying playmaker... a poor one.... but thats what he is

at his best he likes to collect the ball deep and move it out wide ....... and repeat

nothing wrong with that sort of player, every good team has their own "steady eddie" the guy who u know will get the ball keep it simple and keep play ticking over... thats him... hes just ok at it.. at best but drifts in and out of games and they tend to pass him by

hes not a lung busting defending one minute arriving in their penalty box the next

bryson is the only tradional box to box midfielder, but at 30 he aint the spritely 24 year old that could cover every blade of grass

and as for johnson, im sorry i just dont rate the guy 

I suppose u could argue that he is a box to box midfielder, just as u say a poor one.

imo, for what its worth

maybe a player like irvine, maybe not him but like that is whats needed minimal skill but a true athelte that can do the leg work around Huddlestone.

when playing in a two like that im not talking about getting up and down the middle of the park box to box.

u need legs to help defend your channels, when the oppostion goes out wide, the central two will be exepcted to shuffle over and assists the full back, its called double banking, its a thankful and tireless task and it basically feels like doing shuttle runs for 90 minutes lol

in a system such as the one were looking to play it would mean it takes the pressure off our widemen to drop as far back and keeps them higher up the pitch... to our benefit obviously as we maintain our out ball.

so in summary, we do need more legs in the middle two.... well we do if we're not going to dictate the play at least 

[Jack Willow]

22 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

...maybe a player like Irvine, maybe not him but like that is whats needed minimal skill but a true athlete that can do the leg work around Huddlestone.

when playing in a two like that im not talking about getting up and down the middle of the park box to box.

u need legs to help defend your channels, when the opposition goes out wide, the central two will be expected to shuffle over and assists the full back, its called double banking, its a thankful and tireless task and it basically feels like doing shuttle runs for 90 minutes lol

in a system such as the one were looking to play it would mean it takes the pressure off our widemen to drop as far back and keeps them higher up the pitch... to our benefit obviously as we maintain our out ball.

so in summary, we do need more legs in the middle two.... well we do if we're not going to dictate the play at least 

I agree with you about the vast majority of the things, except I don't think Irvine Jackson is a player for Derby, luckily Dull City has bought him. So they'll be stuck with him. He did score a lot of goals last season and he's an combative energetic midfielder, but technically he's quite weak.

Unfortunately for us but luckily for them, they got themselves Jon Toral for the price of peanuts.

[Zag zig]

5 hours ago, valleyram said:

Correct mate Nigel would take Bryso all day long before Irvine 

Not having a go at Bryso saying this but if Clough used that money to bid for Bryso and if I was Bryso offered say a 3 year contract at the Brewers, I'd seriously consider it; simply because I think he going to get very little starting time with us.

[NottsRam77]

17 minutes ago, lioncoeur said:

I agree with you about the vast majority of the things, except I don't think Irvine Jackson is a player for Derby, luckily Dull City has bought him. So they'll be stuck with him. He did score a lot of goals last season and he's an combative energetic midfielder, but technically he's quite weak.

Unfortunately for us but luckily for them, they got themselves Jon Toral for the price of peanuts.

I think one things for sure the balance just isnt right in there atm 

[NottsRam77]

20 minutes ago, lioncoeur said:

I agree with you about the vast majority of the things, except I don't think Irvine Jackson is a player for Derby, luckily Dull City has bought him. So they'll be stuck with him. He did score a lot of goals last season and he's an combative energetic midfielder, but technically he's quite weak.

Unfortunately for us but luckily for them, they got themselves Jon Toral for the price of peanuts.

I dont know why, but for some reason i was really really disappointed we didnt get Toral, i know we have vydra for the hole but it just made sense.... and I dont even know why lol

[Jack Willow]

4 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

I dont know why, but for some reason i was really really disappointed we didnt get Toral, i know we have vydra for the hole but it just made sense.... and I dont even know why lol

They are not similar players at all. Vydra is not a playmaker, Vydra is a fox-in-the-box sort of player, while Toral is an attacking midfielder the real No.10 and also a deep-lying midfielder.

[valleyram]

6 hours ago, McLovin said:

If that fee is true then I'm disappointed we didn't try to get him. He's young enough to improve and can play any position in the centre of midfield. I'd say he is better than Bryson and Butterfield and just as good as Johnson at the moment. He was brilliant against Chile for Australia 

Uve no idea though 

watched him up here and is one of the worst footballers I've ever seen but give him his dues he thinks he's a player but that's the cocky Australian in him 

[NottsRam77]

31 minutes ago, lioncoeur said:

They are not similar players at all. Vydra is not a playmaker, Vydra is a fox-in-the-box sort of player, while Toral is an attacking midfielder the real No.10 and also a deep-lying midfielder.

They both favour the off the front man role though no??

they will play it differently but its the same off a front man position

vydra has excelled picking the ball up deep and or in the pockets of space inbetween the fron man and midfield and turning defence into attack.

a fox in the box is something completely different

hes been pretty much our only creative spark, hes scored some goals yes but his job has been to very much get us playing high up

 

[Jack Willow]

5 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

They both favour the off the front man role though no??

M. Vydra is a counter attacking forward; who scores a lot of goals (normally). When played with Troy Deeney.

J. Toral is mainly a central attacking midfielder/playmaker (Brentford and Birmingham City) and he can also play as a deep-lying midfielder (Granada and Rangers).

If you ever seen Inigo Idiakez playing before, well Jon Toral plays a similar role.

[NottsRam77]

Yes, i saw idiakas playing lol

if u go back further than him then Ronnie Willems was gorgeous in that role, feeding studger and gabbiadini 

i know what ur saying and agree, hence as my original point this is why i was probably disappointed we didnt get toral, to have two players who can play that role very diffrently for me would be a large part of the options rowett has alluded to.... that and getting someone who can cover some ground in the midfield

 

[Jack Willow]

Just now, NottsRam77 said:

Yes, i saw idiakas playing lol

if u go back further than him then Ronnie Willems was gorgeous in that role, feeding studger and gabbiadini 

i know what ur saying and agree, hence why i was probably disappointed we didnt get toral, to have two players who can play that role very diffrently for me would be a large part of the options rowett has alluded to.... that and getting someone who can cover some ground in the midfield

A new creative attacking midfielder would be more than welcome, but a real midfielder, not some converted forward.

I am not sure Tom Lawrence is really that type.

And also another all round mobile midfielder is necessity, as long as we don't know for sure when George Thorne will be completely ready to play.

[NottsRam77]

4 minutes ago, lioncoeur said:

A new creative attacking midfielder would be more than welcome, but a real midfielder, not some converted forward.

I am not sure Tom Lawrence is really that type.

And also another all round mobile midfielder is necessity, as long as we don't know for sure when George Thorne will be completely ready to play.

Agree completely with that ?

[Anag Ram]

Me too, but it doesn't matter what players you have if the team isn't prepared to battle and play as a unit for 90 minutes.

Some stern words needed as well as new personnel.

[Cardifframs]

Apparently irvine had a £1.2m buyout clause

Would maybe have been worth a punt 

[gccrowdpleaser]

2 hours ago, Cardifframs said:

Apparently irvine had a £1.2m buyout clause

Would maybe have been worth a punt 

1.2 million buy out gives you an idea of how good he is... He's not.. He's absolutely bang average and I'd he hadn't scored against Derby last season his name wouldn't even get a mention. 

[MACKWORTHRAM]

3 hours ago, gccrowdpleaser said:

1.2 million buy out gives you an idea of how good he is... He's not.. He's absolutely bang average and I'd he hadn't scored against Derby last season his name wouldn't even get a mention. 

So how bad must Curtis Davies be? 

[Mistaram]

16 hours ago, lioncoeur said:

M. Vydra is a counter attacking forward; who scores a lot of goals (normally). When played with Troy Deeney.

J. Toral is mainly a central attacking midfielder/playmaker (Brentford and Birmingham City) and he can also play as a deep-lying midfielder (Granada and Rangers).

If you ever seen Inigo Idiakez playing before, well Jon Toral plays a similar role.

I saw Idiakez play he Misses penalties fortunately for us 

[gccrowdpleaser]

57 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

So how bad must Curtis Davies be? 

Entirely different situation. Davies was as a result of a relegation clause.