Liverpool - Southampton Merger

[Day]

Don't see why not, Liverhampton, Southpool. Both play in red and white so that's easy enough. Plenty of Liverpool fans already down south, not like Liverpool will be left without a club, Everton is only across the road.

[Bris Vegas]

I don't understand Liverpool. 

How awful must their scouting be if they keep buying Southampton's players?

First off, why aren't Liverpool beating Southampton to the punch in the first place. If they're worried these players aren't PL ready, loan them out...

And secondly, why is their scouting network seemingly limited to either Germany-based players known by Klopp or Southampton? 

I don't see them as the sort of club who could buy a top class player like an Ozil or Sanchez, so they need to do things differently. How can they expect to challenge Chelsea if they can't find a Hazard, Courtois or Zouma from abroad?

[Jourdan]

I don't find this unusual at all.

Southampton are a very well run club with an admirable standing in the Premier League, and so they are always going to be a stepping stone. Much like Everton, West Ham, Newcastle and teams of a similar standing.

The likes of Liverpool and Tottenham understand that they are a few notches higher than those clubs and use that to their advantage.

But they are still shopping in a different market to the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United and Manchester City, so I can imagine they see such signings as sensible and low risk, because these players are well-known, they have proven themselves in the Premier League, understand the demands of English football, and are likely to flourish playing with a better calibre of player.

Would I have spent £35 million on Sadio Mane? Or £25 million on Adam Lallana? Or £50 million on van Dijk? Probably not. So, perhaps Liverpool have the right idea because the majority of these players do actually transition well and perform well, but they are executing it lazily because they are consistently being held to ransom.

Not much of a fuss to be made here. These types of moves happen all of the time in football. Don't Bayern tend to cherry pick from clubs within the Bundesliga? Don't Barcelona do the same in La Liga? The same with Juventus and PSG in their leagues? All with varying degrees of success.

[MuespachRam]

the funniest bit is when the following season the scummers beat them..

[ramsbottom]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

I don't find this unusual at all.

Southampton are a very well run club with an admirable standing in the Premier League, and so they are always going to be a stepping stone. Much like Everton, West Ham, Newcastle and teams of a similar standing.

The likes of Liverpool and Tottenham understand that they are a few notches higher than those clubs and use that to their advantage.

But they are still shopping in a different market to the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United and Manchester City, so I can imagine they see such signings as sensible and low risk, because these players are well-known, they have proven themselves in the Premier League, understand the demands of English football, and are likely to flourish playing with a better calibre of player.

Would I have spent £35 million on Sadio Mane? Or £25 million on Adam Lallana? Or £50 million on van Dijk? Probably not. So, perhaps Liverpool have the right idea because the majority of these players do actually transition well and perform well, but they are executing it lazily because they are consistently being held to ransom.

Not much of a fuss to be made here. These types of moves happen all of the time in football. Don't Bayern tend to cherry pick from clubs within the Bundesliga? Don't Barcelona do the same in La Liga? The same with Juventus and PSG in their leagues? All with varying degrees of success.

For once I'm agreeing with you.  But at the same time, like Dave says, why can't Liverpool spot these players before they go to Southampton?  Same goes for Spurs and Wanyama.  Surely signing the same player, a year before, for over half of what they're willing to pay now is a lower risk?  Look how much stick Louvren has got since he went there, he's been ****.  The last truely great bit of transfer business Liverpool did was getting Courtinho for £8m...

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I don't find this unusual at all.

Southampton are a very well run club with an admirable standing in the Premier League, and so they are always going to be a stepping stone. Much like Everton, West Ham, Newcastle and teams of a similar standing.

The likes of Liverpool and Tottenham understand that they are a few notches higher than those clubs and use that to their advantage.

But they are still shopping in a different market to the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United and Manchester City, so I can imagine they see such signings as sensible and low risk, because these players are well-known, they have proven themselves in the Premier League, understand the demands of English football, and are likely to flourish playing with a better calibre of player.

Would I have spent £35 million on Sadio Mane? Or £25 million on Adam Lallana? Or £50 million on van Dijk? Probably not. So, perhaps Liverpool have the right idea because the majority of these players do actually transition well and perform well, but they are executing it lazily because they are consistently being held to ransom.

Not much of a fuss to be made here. These types of moves happen all of the time in football. Don't Bayern tend to cherry pick from clubs within the Bundesliga? Don't Barcelona do the same in La Liga? The same with Juventus and PSG in their leagues? All with varying degrees of success.

I think the difference is the quality. Bayern cherry pick the best Bundesliga players, United likewise in the PL and Barca/Madrid tend to buy only La Liga's best.

Can the same be said of Liverpool? Instead of buying Rakitic for 20mill, they bought Henderson for 25mill. Mane, Lallana, Louvren, Clyne and Van Dijk are vastly overpriced considering they're hardly the PL's best.

It baffels me why these clubs don't cherry pick truely top players from abroad from midtable clubs.

It didn't take a genius to work out Griezmann was a top player at Real Sociedad. Why someone like United would wait until now to go for him is baffling. He hasn't greatly improved at Atletico, so what do they see in him now for an extra £50million that they didn't see before?

Liverpool are suckers, they're buying players who are below title-winning level for ridiculous fees.

IMO it's really lazy scouting.

[Jourdan]

2 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

For once I'm agreeing with you.  But at the same time, like Dave says, why can't Liverpool spot these players before they go to Southampton?  Same goes for Spurs and Wanyama.  Surely signing the same player, a year before, for over half of what they're willing to pay now is a lower risk?  Look how much stick Louvren has got since he went there, he's been ****.  The last truely great bit of transfer business Liverpool did was getting Courtinho for £8m...

I find it hard to believe that a club of Liverpool's stature doesn't have the scouting department to identify players of a similar profile.

Surely they can spot the talent, but surely it's about their willingness to take a risk or finding a player that will suit their particular style or system at that particular time.

In essence, every transfer is a gamble but when you are a club of that stature, the stakes are higher, the prices are typically higher, so you are trying to minimise that risk as much as possible.

By and large, they will want to sign players who will slot straight in and deliver week in, week out. In order to win trophies and feature more regularly in the Champions League, they need to bridge a gap and it will help if those players hit the ground running. So in theory, it will be better to spend £35 million on one proven player with Premier League experience, than a foreign player that is new to the division, a player who is unheralded, or a player who is all potential. After all, for every Coutinho or Suarez, there are two or three players who don't have the desired progression or impact.

A year is a long time in football, so much depends on that player's development and also on that player's circumstances e.g. their contract situation and their performances. I'm sure Spurs were aware of Wanyama when he was bossing it at Celtic, for example. But sometimes you want to see something more tangible, so they waited until he had some good years at this level under his belt.

The beauty of the transfer market is timing.

 

 

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

I think the difference is the quality. Bayern cherry pick the best Bundesliga players, United likewise in the PL and Barca/Madrid tend to buy only La Liga's best.

Can the same be said of Liverpool? Instead of buying Rakitic for 20mill, they bought Henderson for 25mill. Mane, Lallana, Louvren, Clyne and Van Dijk are vastly overpriced considering they're hardly the PL's best.

It baffels me why these clubs don't cherry pick truely top players from abroad from midtable clubs.

It didn't take a genius to work out Griezmann was a top player at Real Sociedad. Why someone like United would wait until now to go for him is baffling. He hasn't greatly improved at Atletico, so what do they see in him now for an extra £50million that they didn't see before?

Liverpool are suckers, they're buying players who are below title-winning level for ridiculous fees.

IMO it's really lazy scouting.

Yes, but they are shopping in different markets.

In their current standing, you can't expect Liverpool to compete with clubs who win league titles, who win trophies and who regularly feature in the Champions League.

Take your given example of Rakitic. It's 2014 and you are leaving Sevilla. You have a choice of Barcelona or Liverpool. Which club will offer more money? Barcelona. Which club will offer a more likely chance of silverware? Barcelona. Which club offers a more attractive city to live in? Barcelona. Which club requires less of an adjustment? Barcelona. Unless you have a dream to play in the Premier League and you are drawn in by Liverpool's history, chances are you will choose Barcelona.

Maybe Liverpool try to sign top players who will elevate them to title contention, but perhaps given they haven't won a league title in 27 years, they haven't won a trophy in five years and they have played in the Champions League once in seven seasons, they are overlooked in favour of clubs with a better standing at that time.

I don't believe for one second Liverpool are paying £25 million for Henderson as a conscious choice if they have a chance of getting Rakitic for £20 million.

The reality is that the likes of van Dijk and Lallana are probably signed because they can't attract players of a higher calibre, not because Liverpool deliberately go out targeting these players.

[Animal is a Ram]

Liverpool doing exactly the same as we spent the Clement season doing..

[ronnieronalde]

On ‎06‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 15:12, Bris Vegas said:

I don't understand Liverpool. 

How awful must their scouting be if they keep buying Southampton's players?

First off, why aren't Liverpool beating Southampton to the punch in the first place. If they're worried these players aren't PL ready, loan them out...

And secondly, why is their scouting network seemingly limited to either Germany-based players known by Klopp or Southampton? 

I don't see them as the sort of club who could buy a top class player like an Ozil or Sanchez, so they need to do things differently. How can they expect to challenge Chelsea if they can't find a Hazard, Courtois or Zouma from abroad?

Southampton, Spurs, Shalke, Man City, Hyde, Leverkusen, Benfica,  Mainz, Lille, Seville, Augsberg, Burnley, Hoffenheim, Bolton, Milan, Newcastle, Villa, Crven Zvedka. That's the real list of clubs Liverpool have bought from since the 2014 season. Admittedly last season was mainly German clubs, but I don't see anyone saying too much about Wagner who's done exactly the same thing.

Not having a pop Bris but it's that kind of sweeping statement that gets dished out as fact. The same as the old Scotland and Burton Albion debate we used to have on here.

As well as that, the players known to Klopp part, I've never understood why that kind of approach is viewed as surprising/negative, surely if the players are known to the manager and he trusts them. that's one of the biggest plusses going. Got to be better than trusting the judgement of a super agent or head of football.

I bet the majority of players signed by Liverpool this summer won't be from Southampton.