Apple

[McRamFan]

1 hour ago, David said:

Still waiting for why I should justify how I spend my money to you

Spend your money how you like. Just asking your opinion on apples ethics, especially having 200% margins on goods, working conditions and the enormous amount of corporate 'bullying'.

[rynny]

53 minutes ago, David said:

Would never queue but but can understand why he would sell the devices on early. Used Apple prices in good condition with the box are really good.

Say you hold on to an iPad for years, it would work great but you may miss out on features, iOS does slow devices down if you're installing the latest version on say a 3 year old phone, it works but just a bit slower.

When it ultimately comes time to buy a new one, you might have to pay £600-£700, your old device being pretty much worthless. Trade it in each year, never have any problems and you will maybe get £400 for your old iPad.

If you keep trading in each year you get maximum resale value, I've never done it before receiving the new device but say you pay £800 for the iPhone 7, you can expect to get around £600 resale value. The iPhone 8 might cost £850 so it's cost you £250.

As I said to Lester earlier, if you go sim free it works out much cheaper, you get a better contract, the latest phone each year whilst saving £20-30 per month. Plus the initial outlay of a phone that would be on a 2 year contract.

For many people having the latest and greatest doesn't matter, all you do is browse the Internet, not fussed about iCloud and all that. An original iPad if you didn't max out the iOS updates would do just that.

I make websites, it's what I do, I need to see how it looks on all screen sizes, like building a car without having a road to test it on. No way can I afford to stay and one device and run it's course, then suck up the costs of replacing all the devices with no resale value on old.

New iPad and iPhone each year, minus the contract would cost me around £400, that's £33 a month, little over a pound a day.

Listing all Apple devices might make you look mega rich but you play the smart game it's really not that expensive after you've made the initial jump.

(this only works if you take care of devices, Not chuck them around like toys)

 

Oh I get the selling devices bit, but it just isn't devices he sells, it is whatever isn't tied down at release time gets sold. The part I don't get is the queue up 2 days before hand, each year he goes off to Birmingham (for some unknown reason, maybe blends in better sleeping in a doorway, I don't know )

Would never criticise people for their choice of devices, may have joke and it can be an easy fishing line , what you do makes perfect sense to me at least.

[McRamFan]

38 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

It's quite impressive how you can type the exact opposite of reality and sound so serious about it. King of dead pan. 

Let me try:

up is down, left is right, forest are the best team in the... nope, couldn't do it without smiling. 

It's easy, just write the exact opposite of what the norm portrays and sit back and watch, or in this case read. Its quite satisfying and makes me smile too.

[ramsbottom]

2 hours ago, McRamFan said:

Because he can't.  Still waiting the justification of buying apple, especially regarding their tax avoidance, workers rights and their tie up with Foxconn.

Any big consumer based business uses cheap labour, and cuts corners to avoid tax.  Nike, Amazon, Sony, Tesco even Primark.  If you stopped buying products based on company's business practices you'd have to live in a tent, live off the land, and make your own clothes out of old potato sacks and frog spawn...

[Joe.]

I gave up on getting a new phone every year when they stopped actually making any meaningful improvements until every second or third year

[Day]

Just now, McRamFan said:

Spend your money how you like. Just asking your opinion on apples ethics, especially having 200% margins on goods, working conditions and the enormous amount of corporate 'bullying'.

My opinion is that there are many large companies that will have poor working conditions in Asia, or bend the tax rules, I could pull your house apart and find many items from cars, food, clothes to electronics finding unethical practices articles online.

It's the world we live in, it's not right but I'm not willing to sit in a dark room naked, starving myself.

You talk like you think it's only Apple that make ridiculous margins on products, do you think flagship Android phones are not making similar profit margins? Do you not think Tesco, Asda are also making large profit margins on the food they sell? What about the car you drive to work in, or the kettle you make your morning brew. 

The world doesn't go round on 0% profit. 

It's a boring conversation to be honest, one I've never shown any interest to go down. Already proven I can throw articles out for other companies or the £25 iPhone myth, yet they will be ignored. It's just Apple. Or Apple are paying Google who are behind Android to remove articles about them and bend the truth.

If you want to talk about the actual devices I'm down, but I'm not wasting my time shouting up to you on that morale high ground you have placed yourself on. By phone is better than yours as childish as it may be is a much more interesting talking point than this.

 

[Ramshankered]

2 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Any big consumer based business uses cheap labour, and cuts corners to avoid tax.  Nike, Amazon, Sony, Tesco even Primark.  If you stopped buying products based on company's business practices you'd have to live in a tent, live off the land, and make your own clothes out of old potato sacks and frog spawn...

I take your point - but that doesn't mean you should stop holding companies to account where possible? I personally think it's a case of moderation.

For example: I'm aware of Amazon's very many dubious practises, so I've cut down my orders from say, 10-20 a year, to max 1 or 2 (usually only in emergencies or exceptional circumstances). 

 

 

 

[ramsbottom]

18 minutes ago, Ramshankered said:

I take your point - but that doesn't mean you should stop holding companies to account where possible? I personally think it's a case of moderation.

For example: I'm aware of Amazon's very many dubious practises, so I've cut down my orders from say, 10-20 a year, to max 1 or 2 (usually only in emergencies or exceptional circumstances). 

 

 

 

I'm all for big corporations paying they dues, and making working conditions better.  But I wouldn't base my purchase of, for example, a new TV on which firm is the straighter arrow when it comes to business practices.  I base it on which ones the best for what I can afford.  I'd never buy a Samsung phone, cus for one they're ugly and they're Android, so they'll eventually break.  But I'll always buy their TV's because they're well made, brilliantly designed, and have a great picture quality.

I'll go anywhere but Amazon if I can help it.  Not through scruples, just the fact I'm not a fan of their site.  It's never been particularly user friendly.  Plus, since they introduced the market place, you never really no who you're buying your stuff off.  You're better off on eBay...

[Ewetube]

My last 3 phones have been flagship Samsungs and I've never had a problem with any of them. I bought them because at the time they were considered to be the very best phones available. I generally have my phones for 2 years, upgrade and sell my old phone which is always in pristine condition.

I'm not some sort of Samsung fanboy and if someone brings out a better phone than a Samsung when I'm due an upgrade I wouldn't hesitate to change brand. For this reason I can't fathom why a certain sector of the public slavishly support one brand even if their product is inferior but then try to convince everyone else it's superior. This is as much a dig at people who purchase Samsungs slavishly as it is those who pee their pants when Apple release new products.  

FYI I have had smartphones from this:

to this:

[Day]

13 minutes ago, Ewetube said:

For this reason I can't fathom why a certain sector of the public slavishly support one brand even if their product is inferior but then try to convince everyone else it's superior.

A bit like political party supporters then  

Fanboyism and trolling a side, what actually makes one or the other inferior?

One criticism that is aimed at Apple products is the hardware specs are not up to those of a Android phone or PC. The argument to that is optimised software to a device won't need the same specs.

If you take an iPhone 7 and Samsung S8, both phones are capable of browsing the Internet, listening to music, watching videos, social media, pictures, filming and even making phone calls. 

Run them side by side and you're looking at split seconds time difference, although those tests are not exactly scientific as you need to run them on clean phones, yet one may cache better than the other on the 5th 6th run.

So it pretty much boils down to software, the options, features, how easy it is to operate, this is where the debates are really to be had.

Android is great if you want full customisation and widgets, Apple is more rigid yet that suits people. I for one have no desire to change the font, customise the icons with themes. 

For me, with the rigidness of Apple it's the little things they do have as standard, pressing the time will take to you to top of the page, double tap the home button lowers the full screen. 

Samsung condense the site into a small rectangle in the corner, there is no default tap to take you to the top of the page. It's these little things that can be fixed with apps on the play store which you have to run the malware gauntlet.

Apple are more stricter with their apps, where I "believe" other than a quick scan you can upload an app to the Play store pretty much immediately (may be wrong).

iPhone on it's own is great, really is, but when you get sucked into that evil ecosystem it's even better.

MacBook, iPhone, iPad, Watch, any device I can read a text, pick up a email, sync photos. I can sit at my desk with a call through the MacBook, move away and handoff to the phone, no ending the call, seemless. Crop a picture in my photos, 2 seconds later I can grab it on another device. Sit on the toilet, Reading a lengthy article, return to the Mac and one click and it's takes me to exactly the same point so I just carry on.

I can go down the garden, upstairs, not thinking where's my phone, expecting a call. It's on my wrist, answer the call, done. 

I'm sure this is all possible finding apps for Windows that sync with Android, but Apple it's out the box, you're not relying on 3rd party developers for updates, fixing issues. 

When you turn that Mac on, there's no AVG running a security scan, no installing updates 1 of 2000, on and getting to your task within 15 seconds. I can even use my finger print now to unlock my Mac without having to type in a lengthy secure password.

That was more than I expected to write. I know someone asked me further back why is Mac better, didn't get chance to reply as I got caught up in the ethics debate, apologise for this lengthy post was aimed at you, just the inferior thing was a good starting point  

[LesterRam]

2 minutes ago, David said:

A bit like political party supporters then  

Fanboyism and trolling a side, what actually makes one or the other inferior?

One criticism that is aimed at Apple products is the hardware specs are not up to those of a Android phone or PC. The argument to that is optimised software to a device won't need the same specs.

If you take an iPhone 7 and Samsung S8, both phones are capable of browsing the Internet, listening to music, watching videos, social media, pictures, filming and even making phone calls. 

Run them side by side and you're looking at split seconds time difference, although those tests are not exactly scientific as you need to run them on clean phones, yet one may cache better than the other on the 5th 6th run.

So it pretty much boils down to software, the options, features, how easy it is to operate, this is where the debates are really to be had.

Android is great if you want full customisation and widgets, Apple is more rigid yet that suits people. I for one have no desire to change the font, customise the icons with themes. 

For me, with the rigidness of Apple it's the little things they do have as standard, pressing the time will take to you to top of the page, double tap the home button lowers the full screen. 

Samsung condense the site into a small rectangle in the corner, there is no default tap to take you to the top of the page. It's these little things that can be fixed with apps on the play store which you have to run the malware gauntlet.

Apple are more stricter with their apps, where I "believe" other than a quick scan you can upload an app to the Play store pretty much immediately (may be wrong).

iPhone on it's own is great, really is, but when you get sucked into that evil ecosystem it's even better.

MacBook, iPhone, iPad, Watch, any device I can read a text, pick up a email, sync photos. I can sit at my desk with a call through the MacBook, move away and handoff to the phone, no ending the call, seemless. Crop a picture in my photos, 2 seconds later I can grab it on another device. Sit on the toilet, Reading a lengthy article, return to the Mac and one click and it's takes me to exactly the same point so I just carry on.

I can go down the garden, upstairs, not thinking where's my phone, expecting a call. It's on my wrist, answer the call, done. 

I'm sure this is all possible finding apps for Windows that sync with Android, but Apple it's out the box, you're not relying on 3rd party developers for updates, fixing issues. 

When you turn that Mac on, there's no AVG running a security scan, no installing updates 1 of 2000, on and getting to your task within 15 seconds. I can even use my finger print now to unlock my Mac without having to type in a lengthy secure password.

That was more than I expected to write. I know someone asked me further back why is Mac better, didn't get chance to reply as I got caught up in the ethics debate, apologise for this lengthy post was aimed at you, just the inferior thing was a good starting point  

bloody hell, your obsessed man

[Day]

4 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

bloody hell, your obsessed man

I love you

[LesterRam]

9 minutes ago, David said:

I love you

I'm a happily married man

[Ewetube]

1 hour ago, David said:

A bit like political party supporters then  

Fanboyism and trolling a side, what actually makes one or the other inferior?

One criticism that is aimed at Apple products is the hardware specs are not up to those of a Android phone or PC. The argument to that is optimised software to a device won't need the same specs.

If you take an iPhone 7 and Samsung S8, both phones are capable of browsing the Internet, listening to music, watching videos, social media, pictures, filming and even making phone calls. 

Run them side by side and you're looking at split seconds time difference, although those tests are not exactly scientific as you need to run them on clean phones, yet one may cache better than the other on the 5th 6th run.

So it pretty much boils down to software, the options, features, how easy it is to operate, this is where the debates are really to be had.

Android is great if you want full customisation and widgets, Apple is more rigid yet that suits people. I for one have no desire to change the font, customise the icons with themes. 

For me, with the rigidness of Apple it's the little things they do have as standard, pressing the time will take to you to top of the page, double tap the home button lowers the full screen. 

Samsung condense the site into a small rectangle in the corner, there is no default tap to take you to the top of the page. It's these little things that can be fixed with apps on the play store which you have to run the malware gauntlet.

Apple are more stricter with their apps, where I "believe" other than a quick scan you can upload an app to the Play store pretty much immediately (may be wrong).

iPhone on it's own is great, really is, but when you get sucked into that evil ecosystem it's even better.

MacBook, iPhone, iPad, Watch, any device I can read a text, pick up a email, sync photos. I can sit at my desk with a call through the MacBook, move away and handoff to the phone, no ending the call, seemless. Crop a picture in my photos, 2 seconds later I can grab it on another device. Sit on the toilet, Reading a lengthy article, return to the Mac and one click and it's takes me to exactly the same point so I just carry on.

I can go down the garden, upstairs, not thinking where's my phone, expecting a call. It's on my wrist, answer the call, done. 

I'm sure this is all possible finding apps for Windows that sync with Android, but Apple it's out the box, you're not relying on 3rd party developers for updates, fixing issues. 

When you turn that Mac on, there's no AVG running a security scan, no installing updates 1 of 2000, on and getting to your task within 15 seconds. I can even use my finger print now to unlock my Mac without having to type in a lengthy secure password.

That was more than I expected to write. I know someone asked me further back why is Mac better, didn't get chance to reply as I got caught up in the ethics debate, apologise for this lengthy post was aimed at you, just the inferior thing was a good starting point  

Thanks for taking the time to reply (at length).

I guess the whole Apple i-ecosystem is either very clever or very stupid. I can see why people who've already bought into it would be loathed to leave but the whole eco-system thing is what puts me (and probably others) off. I've never really been part of it, at our house we've got 4 Samsung Galaxy S7 series phones, 2 windows PC's, 2 android tablets, a dual booting PIPO x10, an old laptop rejuvenated with Ubuntu Linux, and a couple of firesticks. I can transfer files across all these devices without much hassle and they work well for what we use them for. All the phones can miracast content to our TV. I and everyone else in our house has a lot of experience of working with multiple operating systems so switching between them comes as second nature. 

Having a phone for 2 years (which I generally do) means I want to be excited by it, maybe root it, install a custom recovery and custom rom, remove the manufacturer's and network's bloatwear, increase its performance, learn about advanced features over the course of that time. From what I've seen of Apple phones up to now I think I would get very bored with them very quick. I don't but this "they just work" response either; my phones have always "just worked", it's the fact that I can alter the manner in which they look and work that appeals to me.

I'm not against Apple per se and I can see why people like Apple products, but they would have to release the shackles before they would ever see me as a customer.

 

[Day]

5 minutes ago, Ewetube said:

Having a phone for 2 years (which I generally do) means I want to be excited by it, maybe root it, install a custom recovery and custom rom, remove the manufacturer's and network's bloatwear, increase its performance, learn about advanced features over the course of that time.

Think this is what separates a lot of people, they don't want to go through all that mess. I'm a bit of a geek but even I can't be arsed with all that, when I had the Samsung S7 I was bogged down with settings after settings, I was bored to tears by time I got it setup.

Also forgive my ignorance but isn't rooting an Android pretty much the same as Jailbreaking an iPhone?

To buy a flagship Android phone and to think you might only get one update, that's when the operator can get round to filling it with junk nobody wants is another thing that is off putting, not so much for someone like myself that trades in each year but those that want to get a few years out of it. 

Seems silly for Android to put an operating system out then Samsung come along and layer theirs on top. Why not make your own OS if you can do it better?....saying that Touchwiz is an example of why you shouldn't.

Apple has finally got round to addressing the junk issue on their phones, only allowing you to hide not fully remove is a start.

Both need to realise that forcing apps on its users will not make them want to use them, if anything it would piss me off more. 

I find it interesting that Samsung closed the ability to change the purpose of the Bixby button, isn't that going against why Android users are Android? 

[cannable]

On 6/4/2017 at 17:59, David said:

iPhone 6S

Apple has determined that a very small number of iPhone 6s devices may unexpectedly shut down. This is not a safety issue and only affects devices within a limited serial number range that were manufactured between September and October 2015.

https://www.apple.com/uk/support/iphone6s-unexpectedshutdown/

It's not unexpected, it's when it gets too cold in open air. Cold but at PPS? Works. Cold but indoors? Works. Cold outside? Dies. 

A couple of my mates have this issue as well. 

Rather annoying.

[Day]

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

It's not unexpected, it's when it gets too cold in open air. Cold but at PPS? Works. Cold but indoors? Works. Cold outside? Dies. 

A couple of my mates have this issue as well. 

Rather annoying.

They not contacted Apple to get it sorted? They repair it for free

[TigerTedd]

On the ethical side of things, and the massive mark up. 

This is what gives Apple more money than god. But it is also what has been able to fuel the massive technological advancements we've seen in recent times. 

I run a business. If I said Timmy business partner, let's invest in a new set of curtains, he's like 'how does that make us more money.' It's only a small business, every penny counts. I keep dreaming of the day when we're making so much profit I can just go, 'yeah, why not, I'll get those curtains, and I'll get the best Ines too.'

Apple are in that sort of position. Let's invest a billion on developing Siri. Will it make us a billion? Not straight away. In fact, if they didn't do it, people would still buy iPhones, so arguably it doesn't make them any extra money. But it gets the competition to sit up and think, we ought to be doing that too, and the whole industry moved on. 

The more money they make, the more the can invest in new things. They don't have to, they would still make boat loads of money. 

Lets invest a billion into self driving cars. Why not? They've got the money. But it won't necessarily make them as much as they're going to invest in it. 

Thats the beautiful thing though. Money makes money. They can invest a billion into an r&d project like that, which might eventually come up with the next huge tech revolution, and make them a trillion.

but people will still get on at thema bout how much money they make. They're almost at a point now where they can't help it. They keep reinvesting, and doubling it, but at the same time moving the human race forward. 

Thats got to be a good thing hasn't it?

Edited June 6, 2017 by TigerTedd

[Ewetube]

10 minutes ago, David said:

Think this is what separates a lot of people, they don't want to go through all that mess. I'm a bit of a geek but even I can't be arsed with all that, when I had the Samsung S7 I was bogged down with settings after settings, I was bored to tears by time I got it setup.

Took me about 30 mins to transfer everything from my old phone to my new and get it all as I wanted it.

Also forgive my ignorance but isn't rooting an Android pretty much the same as Jailbreaking an iPhone?

No, not really jailbreaking allows iphone users to install apps themes and customisations not allowed by Apple, but not affecting the OS (you can do this through side-loading to an android device as standard). Rooting grants the user root access to the Android device allowing them to change the entire OS if they so wish

To buy a flagship Android phone and to think you might only get one update, that's when the operator can get round to filling it with junk nobody wants is another thing that is off putting, not so much for someone like myself that trades in each year but those that want to get a few years out of it. 

They get updates all the time, what are you on about? If you are referring to new Android releases they are usually annually, I had a couple on my last phone.

Seems silly for Android to put an operating system out then Samsung come along and layer theirs on top. Why not make your own OS if you can do it better?....saying that Touchwiz is an example of why you shouldn't.

Touchwiz is a loader, not an OS.  You don't have to use it, it is easily replaced (it's not an iphone).

Apple has finally got round to addressing the junk issue on their phones, only allowing you to hide not fully remove is a start.

Both need to realise that forcing apps on its users will not make them want to use them, if anything it would piss me off more. 

I agree.

I find it interesting that Samsung closed the ability to change the purpose of the Bixby button, isn't that going against why Android users are Android? Dunno.

 

[LesterRam]

14 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

On the ethical side of things, and the massive mark up. 

This is what gives Apple more money than god. But it is also what has been able to fuel the massive technological advancements we've seen in recent times. 

I run a business. If I said Timmy business partner, let's invest in a new set of curtains, he's like 'how does that make us more money.' It's only a small business, every penny counts. I keep dreaming of the day when we're making so much profit I can just go, 'yeah, why not, I'll get those curtains, and I'll get the best Ines too.'

Apple are in that sort of position. Let's invest a billion on developing Siri. Will it make us a billion? Not straight away. In fact, if they didn't do it, people would still buy iPhones, so arguably it doesn't make them any extra money. But it gets the competition to sit up and think, we ought to be doing that too, and the whole industry moved on. 

The more money they make, the more the can invest in new things. They don't have to, they would still make boat loads of money. 

Lets invest a billion into self driving cars. Why not? They've got the money. But it won't necessarily make them as much as they're going to invest in it. 

Thats the beautiful thing though. Money makes money. They can invest a billion into an r&d project like that, which might eventually come up with the next huge tech revolution, and make them a trillion.

but people will still get on at thema bout how much money they make. They're almost at a point now where they can't help it. They keep reinvesting, and doubling it, but at the same time moving the human race forward. 

Thats got to be a good thing hasn't it?

you taking the piss?