Ajax v Man Utd - Europa League Final

[cannable]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

Well, every job is different and every job presents a different challenge. Just because Mourinho isn't renowned for developing young players and playing stylish attacking football doesn't mean he is not capable of such things, and just because Mourinho made use of the resources at his disposal at previous clubs doesn't necessarily suggest he is a chequebook manager.

I'm not sure to be honest. Manager's tend to have philosophies and stick to it. It's why managers only seem capable of doing specific jobs and aren't capable of doing anything outside their skillset.

A pragmatist will always be a pragmatist. 

[MuespachRam]

8 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

No doubting their history, fanbase size, prestige etc. But they no longer have the pullpower over their rivals. Money could play a part in that, as could location as daft as that sounds.

If United and City both offered the same contract to a player, who would he choose? I don't think fanbase, club prestige or history will come into his decision. He will look at which club is more progressive, and which club is more likely to win major honours. Right now I'd back City, as I think they will get much better under Pep.

Liverpool are below United, Chelsea and City in terms of pulling power IMO.

I just think if Lionel Messi for instance was to ever leave Barca for England, he'd choose City over any other club and it has nothing to do with their 'size' or brandname.

I agree in some part....The only reason anyone would chose City over United would be money, money, money...

[ramsbottom]

11 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Well, every job is different and every job presents a different challenge. Just because Mourinho isn't renowned for developing young players and playing stylish attacking football doesn't mean he is not capable of such things, and just because Mourinho made use of the resources at his disposal at previous clubs doesn't necessarily suggest he is a chequebook manager.

When you perform to a consistently high level and win silverware at the rate that he does, you are going to gain the respect, trust and confidence of your board members to do as you please and they are more likely to back you financially if you have the record that Mourinho does.

Of course, Mourinho wants to win trophies and of course, the fans want to win trophies but as a club, how they go about their business is an important consideration. I have already mentioned the sense of entitlement.

For years, all we have heard from the Nevilles, Scholes and many other ex-players is about the importance of seeing exciting, attacking football from United. They must win, but not only that they must win in the right way.

I don't think that thirst for attacking football has dissipated. The ethos and the traditions of the club need to be upheld and respected. When you win two trophies in your first season and qualify for the Champions League after an absence of many years, it can mask such issues.

For me, I just don't see United progressing from where they are now if they continue in the same fashion. The moment they signed Pogba was the moment I knew they would finish outside the top four. I don't expect them to make further inroads by simply throwing enough cash around for a quick gold rush, and not having a sense of direction to follow. Surely Mourinho must be aware of the demands placed on him with this job and that he can't approach it like he has done every other job.

My post centred around it being the approach I think they should take, not the one they necessarily will. All the signs point to them spending hundreds of millions again and doing something different to what I suggested. I guess only time will tell. This is not Mourinho's Manchester United yet and he is still to make his mark, so we shall see.

 

 

Considering he's done exactly the same thing at every club he's managed since he rocked up at Chelsea, I'd say he's incapable to playing any other way.  Even with all the offensive players at his disposal, his Real team were defensively minded.  

[Jourdan]

24 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Considering he's done exactly the same thing at every club he's managed since he rocked up at Chelsea, I'd say he's incapable to playing any other way.  Even with all the offensive players at his disposal, his Real team were defensively minded.  

In his title winning campaign with Real Madrid, they scored 121 goals in 38 league games, winning 32 games with a points haul of 100 and a goal difference of +89.

I'd love the Rams to be so defensively minded.

[Day]

Mourinho isn't the type of manager to walk into a club and start planning for 2, 3 seasons ahead, he goes in with the intention of ending the season with trophies. You know what you're getting with him, that's what he does best.

I don't know him like McLovin who is in there with players and managers, but doesn't strike me as a manager with enough patience to develop young players. Look at is history of calling out his own players. Rashford would be wise to get out now. 

He is the perfect manager for United right now, build the squad to mount serious title challengers and Champions League regulars, that's where the club should be.

Somewhat puzzled Bris you think the same contract on a table players would pick City over United, not sure that will happen to prove either of us right but I honestly couldn't see players picking City. Think you are somewhat overestimating the lure of Guardiola. 

[Jourdan]

Just to add, they outscored Barcelona in league goals in 2 out of 3 of his seasons in Spain.

They scored more than 100 league goals every season he was there.

Again, I think he is just playing with the cards he has been dealt.

[Day]

Quote

“I was in the Ivory Coast, I got called from a Portuguese number, he introduced himself but I just didn’t believe it at first,” Bailly told the Mirror.

“Before I came to Man United, it was City who had been watching me. In my mind, I was going there. But then everything changed.

“It felt like Mourinho was the one who really wanted me. He showed more interest, he rang me and that’s why I’m at Man United.

“Man City contacted my agent, Barcelona as well were talking to my agent, but they weren’t as interested in me as Mourinho. He really pushed for the move.

“Of course the club is important when you sign, but the manager is so important. If a player feels like the manager wants you, wants to sign you, it gives you extra motivation.”

“I’ve always thought Mourinho was good coaching defenders,” he said. “I used to watch Raphael Varane, saw the progression he made under Mourinho [at Real Madrid] and knew he could help me as a player.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/eric-bailly-pick-manchester-united-over-city-jose-mourinho-derby-a7706091.html

If Bailly isn't telling porkies, sometimes it's just the little things that matter...

[Jourdan]

6 minutes ago, David said:

Mourinho isn't the type of manager to walk into a club and start planning for 2, 3 seasons ahead, he goes in with the intention of ending the season with trophies. You know what you're getting with him, that's what he does best.

I don't know him like McLovin who is in there with players and managers, but doesn't strike me as a manager with enough patience to develop young players. Look at is history of calling out his own players. Rashford would be wise to get out now. 

He is the perfect manager for United right now, build the squad to mount serious title challengers and Champions League regulars, that's where the club should be.

Somewhat puzzled Bris you think the same contract on a table players would pick City over United, not sure that will happen to prove either of us right but I honestly couldn't see players picking City. Think you are somewhat overestimating the lure of Guardiola. 

If Mourinho is only focused on winning trophies and not building, why has he given opportunities to so many young players this season? Before you say injuries, why did he only sign four players across two windows and not bolster the squad further with proven players in January, so they could push on?

Look at United's core values. If Mourinho plans to stay there for more than 1-2 years and if he plans to be a success, he can't ignore those values.

They are miles off challenging for the Premier League and the Champions League and one summer window won't change that.

If he looks at it logically, he will need to take a long term view sooner or later.

[ramsbottom]

19 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

In his title winning campaign with Real Madrid, they scored 121 goals in 38 league games, winning 32 games with a points haul of 100 and a goal difference of +89.

I'd love the Rams to be so defensively minded.

And that's the only season he won La Liga with them, he also benefited from from having Ronaldo at the peek of his game, scored 46 in the league & 60 overall.

As others have pointed out, he is a defensive manager that sets up his teams to play one way.  You said he should take his Man Utd team forward by doing X, Y, Z, I not only suggested he wouldn't, but he isn't capable of managing in that way...

[BathRam72]

On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 20:50, Boycie said:

Free on BT 2 init

Not unless you are illegally streaming it.

[Day]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

If Mourinho is only focused on winning trophies and not building, why has he given opportunities to so many young players this season? Before you say injuries, why did he only sign four players across two windows and not bolster the squad further with proven players in January, so they could push on?

I will pull this excuse out of my behind on his behalf as he's not here to defend himself, £157m spent last season, throw in the wages that's a lot of money to spend. It's possible that it could be restrictions with finances, they have the highest debt in football £465m.

Another would be the Premier League squad rules, 25 in the squad, no more than 17 home grown so injuries will have played a part. I'm sure there was a few players he would liked to have shifted out but no takers at the time.

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

Look at United's core values. If Mourinho plans to stay there for more than 1-2 years and if he plans to be a success, he can't ignore those values.

After Moyes and Van Gaal it feels like those values have been put on temporary hold, get the club back competing at the top. No way does Mourinho fit the Man Utd philosophy that Alex Ferguson engrained into the club. With the way the game is changing I wouldn't be surprised to see that temporary hold made more permanent, not many managers stay in the job long enough now.

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

They are miles off challenging for the Premier League and the Champions League and one summer window won't change that.

If he looks at it logically, he will need to take a long term view sooner or later.

Points on the board will back this up, but who thought Porto would have won the Champions League at the time? Mourinho is a winner, I would not back against him closing that gap next season. 

[ramsbottom]

4 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

If Mourinho is only focused on winning trophies and not building, why has he given opportunities to so many young players this season? Before you say injuries, why did he only sign four players across two windows and not bolster the squad further with proven players in January, so they could push on?

Look at United's core values. If Mourinho plans to stay there for more than 1-2 years and if he plans to be a success, he can't ignore those values.

They are miles off challenging for the Premier League and the Champions League and one summer window won't change that.

If he looks at it logically, he will need to take a long term view sooner or later.

That's the thing, he never stays at a club long enough to build a dynasty, because eventually he rubs everyone up the wrong way.  He's too confrontational.  In many ways, he's the flip side to Big Sam.  If you want to ensure your club stays up, you call Big Sam, if you want your club to be challenging towards the top of the league you call in Jose.  If you want a slow & steady progression towards the top, you call...  Well, you can't call anyone, because managers aren't afforded that luxury nowadays...

Couple of interesting articles - 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/nov/03/jose-mourinho-chelsea-10-year-cycle 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/may/23/pep-guardiola-jose-mourinho-manchester-city-united-rivalry

[Boycie]

1 hour ago, BathRam72 said:

Not unless you are illegally streaming it.

Actually Ralph it was free on BT2 if you had access to BT sport that night.

think it was a good will gesture because of the bombings.

[Day]

25 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Actually Ralph it was free on BT2 if you had access to BT sport that night.

think it was a good will gesture because of the bombings.

What have I told you about thinking? leave it to me.

Was announced on the 16th May it would be free to watch along with the Champions League final

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/champions-league-final-bt-sport-free-tv-online-stream-youtube-a7738571.html

[Boycie]

22 minutes ago, David said:

What have I told you about thinking? leave it to me.

Was announced on the 16th May it would be free to watch along with the Champions League final

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/champions-league-final-bt-sport-free-tv-online-stream-youtube-a7738571.html

[cannable]

46 minutes ago, David said:

What have I told you about thinking? leave it to me.

Was announced on the 16th May it would be free to watch along with the Champions League final

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/champions-league-final-bt-sport-free-tv-online-stream-youtube-a7738571.html

As it was last year as well.

They must have to or something. 

[Ghost of Clough]

When you're stuck with carp like Smalling, Jones, Valencia and Young, then have to field them on a regular basis, it's no wonder he set the team up so defensively throughout the season. Jose isn't as naive as other managers in the league like Guardiola  

It seems very much like a case of setting up the best way possible with the available players, and building off that over the following transfer windows. Rather than shoehorning a group of players into his preferred system and hoping it clicks. 

[Bris Vegas]

On 2017-5-25 at 01:44, McLovin said:

@curtains Griezmann is also good friends with a number of the atletico players including Koke,Saul,Gameiro,Lucas Hernandez and Carrasco. Plus another one of Griezmann's close friends, Lacazette is set to join Atletico so the fact that he is friends with Paul Pogba won't make a difference. If anything the prospect of getting paid over 300k a week will sway him to joining. 

However, for arguments sake that Griezmann does join Man Utd, I can't really see where he fits in. Griezmann is best as a player behind the main striker but playing a 4-2-3-1 formation would hamper the effectiveness of other players like Pogba, Mata and Mkitaryryan. Imo rather than spending so much on Griezmann or James Rodriguez, Man Utd would be better of spending money on Lukaku.

Man Utd need a new keeper(if de gea leaves), a new centre back, a new left back, a new cdm, another box to box midfielder, another right winger and another striker.

Thats effectively a new team so lots of work for Mourinho to do in the summer.

Some Ideal players for those positions I listed: Schmeichel(Gk), Van Dijk(CB), Mendy(LB), Fabinho(CDM), Naby Keita(Box to Box), Lukaku(striker), Ousman Dembele(right wing but very unrealistic)

What do you think @Bris Vegas ?

I think what United need more than most is an injection of pace through the middle. Carrick, Mata, Pogba and Mkhitaryan are hardly renowned for tenacity and pace.

I think some of your suggestions are exactly what they need, but I'm not entirely sure Mourinho is the sort of manager to look at younger raw talent and look to develop them.

How much did Anthony Martial cost United? While he's still only 21, can you actually see him getting better under Mou? Young players may be put off working with him.