Ajax v Man Utd - Europa League Final

[Zag zig]

31 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

And as for the Derby Reds and Buxton Reds flags, don't take a bow, give yourselves a shake and a good wash!

Mr Neptune perhaps?

 

How dare you knock Manure's local supporter base, I'm just surprised there wasn't more saying Bristol, Luton or Aberdeen!

[Bris Vegas]

United could have a transfer budget of $1 billion to spend this summer. Wouldn't make a difference as they can't attract the best players in the world currently playing for Barca, Madrid or Bayern.

They've never had that pull when they were the most attractive team in the UK, what chance do they have now when they're competing with the likes of Chelsea and City?

 

[Ghost of Clough]

10 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

United could have a transfer budget of $1 billion to spend this summer. Wouldn't make a difference as they can't attract the best players in the world currently playing for Barca, Madrid or Bayern.

They've never had that pull when they were the most attractive team in the UK, what chance do they have now when they're competing with the likes of Chelsea and City?

Ever heard of the team being greater than the sum of its parts...?

 

Barca are a team on the decline. Then there's Bayern who look like an ageing squad with too many players on the wrong side of 28. Those two teams may currently have some of the best, but they won't remain as the best for much longer. Madrid have a great mix a players. I fancy them to remain as the best team in Europe for the next 5 years.

 

I believe Utd will run Chelsea close for the title next season. Spurs may struggle to begin with whilst they adjust to Wembley. I honestly think they're only a few players off competing - a couple of top class defenders and a forward. I can't see Liverpool or Arsenal closing the gap too much and I don't have much faith in Guardiola learning from his mistakes. 

[Day]

9 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

And as for the Derby Reds and Buxton Reds flags, don't take a bow, give yourselves a shake and a good wash!

Mr Neptune perhaps?

 

Bet the Aberdeen fans think the same about your flag, bloody glory hunter! 

[Sexydadbod]

@curtains Griezmann is also good friends with a number of the atletico players including Koke,Saul,Gameiro,Lucas Hernandez and Carrasco. Plus another one of Griezmann's close friends, Lacazette is set to join Atletico so the fact that he is friends with Paul Pogba won't make a difference. If anything the prospect of getting paid over 300k a week will sway him to joining. 

However, for arguments sake that Griezmann does join Man Utd, I can't really see where he fits in. Griezmann is best as a player behind the main striker but playing a 4-2-3-1 formation would hamper the effectiveness of other players like Pogba, Mata and Mkitaryryan. Imo rather than spending so much on Griezmann or James Rodriguez, Man Utd would be better of spending money on Lukaku.

Man Utd need a new keeper(if de gea leaves), a new centre back, a new left back, a new cdm, another box to box midfielder, another right winger and another striker.

Thats effectively a new team so lots of work for Mourinho to do in the summer.

Some Ideal players for those positions I listed: Schmeichel(Gk), Van Dijk(CB), Mendy(LB), Fabinho(CDM), Naby Keita(Box to Box), Lukaku(striker), Ousman Dembele(right wing but very unrealistic)

What do you think @Bris Vegas ?

[Day]

32 minutes ago, McLovin said:

What do you think @Bris Vegas ?

Bris Bris, say I've done good here, am right aren't I, tell me I'm right #LaLigaBros4Life ?

[Sexydadbod]

15 minutes ago, David said:

Bris Bris, say I've done good here, am right aren't I, tell me I'm right #LaLigaBros4Life ?

Only asked him because most likely not many people on here would have heard of those players. I'll ask you then Daveo, what do you think of those potential signings and where Man Utd need to improve?

[Day]

Just now, McLovin said:

Only asked him because most likely not many people on here would have heard of those players.

You really do think you two are the only people that watch European football don't you, so much so you even know who their best mates are. 

I will shake my head slowly and leave you both to it whilst the rest of us stick inside our Championship bubble completely oblivious to any other league.

 

[Sexydadbod]

50 minutes ago, David said:

You really do think you two are the only people that watch European football don't you, so much so you even know who their best mates are. 

I will shake my head slowly and leave you both to it whilst the rest of us stick inside our Championship bubble completely oblivious to any other league.

 

Not at all, but Bris is the only one who really discusses European football on here so it's natural he is the one who I ask, plus as you see a above he is the one who said Man Utd need 1 billion so I thought I might as well ask if he thinks those players would be suitable. Highgate also knows a lot but haven't seen him about recently. Do you think those players will improve Man Utd then?

[Curtains]

2 hours ago, McLovin said:

@curtains Griezmann is also good friends with a number of the atletico players including Koke,Saul,Gameiro,Lucas Hernandez and Carrasco. Plus another one of Griezmann's close friends, Lacazette is set to join Atletico so the fact that he is friends with Paul Pogba won't make a difference. If anything the prospect of getting paid over 300k a week will sway him to joining. 

However, for arguments sake that Griezmann does join Man Utd, I can't really see where he fits in. Griezmann is best as a player behind the main striker but playing a 4-2-3-1 formation would hamper the effectiveness of other players like Pogba, Mata and Mkitaryryan. Imo rather than spending so much on Griezmann or James Rodriguez, Man Utd would be better of spending money on Lukaku.

Man Utd need a new keeper(if de gea leaves), a new centre back, a new left back, a new cdm, another box to box midfielder, another right winger and another striker.

Thats effectively a new team so lots of work for Mourinho to do in the summer.

Some Ideal players for those positions I listed: Schmeichel(Gk), Van Dijk(CB), Mendy(LB), Fabinho(CDM), Naby Keita(Box to Box), Lukaku(striker), Ousman Dembele(right wing but very unrealistic)

What do you think @Bris Vegas ?

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ander-herrera-tips-manchester-united-target-antoine-griezmann-heir-ronaldo-messi-1623315

 

http://soccerisma.com/2017/05/manchester-united-ready-to-agree-300000-a-week-deal-to-sign-112million-star/

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, McLovin said:

Not at all, but Bris is the only one who really discusses European football on here so it's natural he is the one who I ask, plus as you see a above he is the one who said Man Utd need 1 billion so I thought I might as well ask if he thinks those players would be suitable. Highgate also knows a lot but haven't seen him about recently. Do you think those players will improve Man Utd then?

Even though he has been one of their better players this season, I feel they need an upgrade at right back. Shaw should be kept.

RB: Coleman (depending on injury severity), Hysaj, Mario

CB: Van Dijk, Acerbi

CM: struggling for suggestions here. A more permanent switch to 4231 would mean Griezmann would fit. Alternatively Alejandro Gomez.

CF: Lukaku, Belotti. Could Morata be a viable option?

[DEL]

Matic from Chelsea. 

[Jourdan]

What do Man Utd need to scale those heights again?

Spend less, develop more, and take a long-term approach like Spurs are doing with Pochettino.

The Pogba deal was a sign of desperation. They wanted to remain relevant. They wanted to remind everyone that they are still the big dog in the yard. But when you spend £89 million on one player, you are going to face problems in the transfer market.

Inflated prices for players that simply don't add value to your team. Once you see Ed Woodward on your caller ID, you start doing the money dance.

McLovin mentioned the likes of Dembele, Mendy, Fabinho and Keita. But these are players who are well known and coming off the best seasons in their careers, at the top of most teams' shortlists, and the selling clubs are in a position of strength. Suddenly a £20 million player becomes a £40 million player. So it is not easy.

The trouble with United is that their fans have a great sense of entitlement and they expect a certain style of play and a certain level of success to match.

Expectations need to be adjusted and time needs to be given because they have some excellent individuals but that's all it is - a collection of highly paid individuals. No identity, no direction, no style, no blend.

That said, Mourinho is still shaping the side after Moyes and van Gaal, and he needs time to get his ideas across and identify who he can work with and who he can't.

I wouldn't spend £89 million on Griezmann. Again, it would be a sign of being desperate to live up to their reputation, rather than the club understanding their current place and buying for a careful ascent back to the top.

Griezmann is a wonderful player and a great individual talent but he is too far along in his trajectory and the price tag would lead to crippling expectations. He would have been the perfect signing when he was the standout player at Real Sociedad four years ago. For £89 million, you expect the impact and consistency of someone on the level of Messi and Ronaldo. It's too much to ask.

United need to be more shrewd and get a more even spread rather than relying on one player's individual brilliance.

Laporte (Athletic Bilbao), Klaassen (Ajax), Lanzini (West Ham) and Promes (Spartak Moscow) would be my suggestions.

[DEL]

4 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

What do Man Utd need to scale those heights again?

Spend less, develop more, and take a long-term approach like Spurs are doing with Pochettino.

The Pogba deal was a sign of desperation. They wanted to remain relevant. They wanted to remind everyone that they are still the big dog in the yard. But when you spend £89 million on one player, you are going to face problems in the transfer market.

Inflated prices for players that simply don't add value to your team. Once you see Ed Woodward on your caller ID, you start doing the money dance.

McLovin mentioned the likes of Dembele, Mendy, Fabinho and Keita. But these are players who are well known and coming off the best seasons in their careers, at the top of most teams' shortlists, and the selling clubs are in a position of strength. Suddenly a £20 million player becomes a £40 million player. So it is not easy.

The trouble with United is that their fans have a great sense of entitlement and they expect a certain style of play and a certain level of success to match.

Expectations need to be adjusted and time needs to be given because they have some excellent individuals but that's all it is - a collection of highly paid individuals. No identity, no direction, no style, no blend.

That said, Mourinho is still shaping the side after Moyes and van Gaal, and he needs time to get his ideas across and identify who he can work with and who he can't.

I wouldn't spend £89 million on Griezmann. Again, it would be a sign of being desperate to live up to their reputation, rather than the club understanding their current place and buying for a careful ascent back to the top.

Griezmann is a wonderful player and a great individual talent but he is too far along in his trajectory and the price tag would lead to crippling expectations. He would have been the perfect signing when he was the standout player at Real Sociedad four years ago. For £89 million, you expect the impact and consistency of someone on the level of Messi and Ronaldo. It's too much to ask.

United need to be more shrewd and get a more even spread rather than relying on one player's individual brilliance.

Laporte (Athletic Bilbao), Klaassen (Ajax), Lanzini (West Ham) and Promes (Spartak Moscow) would be my suggestions.

Have a like from me for your player suggestions. 

[Bris Vegas]

11 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Ever heard of the team being greater than the sum of its parts...?

 

Barca are a team on the decline. Then there's Bayern who look like an ageing squad with too many players on the wrong side of 28. Those two teams may currently have some of the best, but they won't remain as the best for much longer. Madrid have a great mix a players. I fancy them to remain as the best team in Europe for the next 5 years.

 

I believe Utd will run Chelsea close for the title next season. Spurs may struggle to begin with whilst they adjust to Wembley. I honestly think they're only a few players off competing - a couple of top class defenders and a forward. I can't see Liverpool or Arsenal closing the gap too much and I don't have much faith in Guardiola learning from his mistakes. 

Bayern have a number of decent players still in their mid 20's - Thiago, Kimmich, Alaba, Coman, Renato Sanches, Douglas Costa while Lewandowski, Hummels, Boetang and Neuer still have another three years at the very top of their games.

Barca I can sort of agree with - their midfield has long been their strongest area now looks their weakest area while the clock is ticking for Iniesta (33), Mascherano (32), Rakitic, Turan (30), Pique (30) and even Rakitic (29).

Messi will drop into a deeper midfield role once he hits like 33/34, while Suarez (30) already seems slower than before and probably has two more seasons at the top level.

Neymar aside, I don't thiink Barca have too many world class younger players in their ranks. They're paying the price for having such a good front three, they're struggling to cover the wages for the rest of the team meaning there is very little leeway in terms of bringing in the best elsewhere.

Madrid's spine will be affected Ronaldo (32), Modric (31), Sergio Ramos (31) in two years time but In Kroos, Bale, Casemiro, Varane, Isco and Carvajal they have the rest of the team sorted for the next four years at least. Think you're right, they could dominate.

[ramsbottom]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

What do Man Utd need to scale those heights again?

Spend less, develop more, and take a long-term approach like Spurs are doing with Pochettino.

The Pogba deal was a sign of desperation. They wanted to remain relevant. They wanted to remind everyone that they are still the big dog in the yard. But when you spend £89 million on one player, you are going to face problems in the transfer market.

Inflated prices for players that simply don't add value to your team. Once you see Ed Woodward on your caller ID, you start doing the money dance.

McLovin mentioned the likes of Dembele, Mendy, Fabinho and Keita. But these are players who are well known and coming off the best seasons in their careers, at the top of most teams' shortlists, and the selling clubs are in a position of strength. Suddenly a £20 million player becomes a £40 million player. So it is not easy.

The trouble with United is that their fans have a great sense of entitlement and they expect a certain style of play and a certain level of success to match.

Expectations need to be adjusted and time needs to be given because they have some excellent individuals but that's all it is - a collection of highly paid individuals. No identity, no direction, no style, no blend.

That said, Mourinho is still shaping the side after Moyes and van Gaal, and he needs time to get his ideas across and identify who he can work with and who he can't.

I wouldn't spend £89 million on Griezmann. Again, it would be a sign of being desperate to live up to their reputation, rather than the club understanding their current place and buying for a careful ascent back to the top.

Griezmann is a wonderful player and a great individual talent but he is too far along in his trajectory and the price tag would lead to crippling expectations. He would have been the perfect signing when he was the standout player at Real Sociedad four years ago. For £89 million, you expect the impact and consistency of someone on the level of Messi and Ronaldo. It's too much to ask.

United need to be more shrewd and get a more even spread rather than relying on one player's individual brilliance.

Laporte (Athletic Bilbao), Klaassen (Ajax), Lanzini (West Ham) and Promes (Spartak Moscow) would be my suggestions.

When have you ever heard the Mouriniho & player development mentioned in the same sentence before??  He has always been, and always will be a cheque book manager.  He wants to win things, not slowly develop a way of playing, to be a club's mantras for years to come.  Also, the board & fans wouldn't allow a manager to be like that.  Fergie's success has spoiled them, and they want to win every trophy going now, not tomorrow, as they consider it an affront they haven't won the league/champions league in FOUR seasons.  

[ramsbottom]

15 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Ever heard of the team being greater than the sum of its parts...?

 

Barca are a team on the decline. Then there's Bayern who look like an ageing squad with too many players on the wrong side of 28. Those two teams may currently have some of the best, but they won't remain as the best for much longer. Madrid have a great mix a players. I fancy them to remain as the best team in Europe for the next 5 years.

 

I believe Utd will run Chelsea close for the title next season. Spurs may struggle to begin with whilst they adjust to Wembley. I honestly think they're only a few players off competing - a couple of top class defenders and a forward. I can't see Liverpool or Arsenal closing the gap too much and I don't have much faith in Guardiola learning from his mistakes. 

The only thing Spurs are missing is a ready made replacement for Kane.  The past two seasons they've lost the title with mini slumps whilst he's been injured.  Unfortunately for them, it's difficult to bring in a player of his ability, and then not play him.  Poch isn't one to rotate his players too much, so an understudy would probably only play a dozen games if he Kane remains fit.  It's a bit like Schteve trying to bring in cover for Martin and ending up with Leon Best...

Liverpool, when everyone is fit, are a genuine force, but they need a top class centre half to replace Lovren.

Everyone knows what Arsenal need but whilst Wenger is there, he'll continue to put faith in his kids and nothing will change.  They could 10 poitns clear at top come Xmas and the rest of the big teams would still be confident of catching them

[MuespachRam]

16 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

United could have a transfer budget of $1 billion to spend this summer. Wouldn't make a difference as they can't attract the best players in the world currently playing for Barca, Madrid or Bayern.

They've never had that pull when they were the most attractive team in the UK, what chance do they have now when they're competing with the likes of Chelsea and City?

 

Do you really believe that..? United are now, always have been and always will be much much bigger than either Chelsea or Manchester City, the only club in England that come close to being able to match them for history, prestige etc (and I HATE to say it) are the scousers, no one else.

 

Even Zlatan has admitted that United are the biggest club he has ever played for.

[Bris Vegas]

43 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

Do you really believe that..? United are now, always have been and always will be much much bigger than either Chelsea or Manchester City, the only club in England that come close to being able to match them for history, prestige etc (and I HATE to say it) are the scousers, no one else.

 

Even Zlatan has admitted that United are the biggest club he has ever played for.

No doubting their history, fanbase size, prestige etc. But they no longer have the pullpower over their rivals. Money could play a part in that, as could location as daft as that sounds.

If United and City both offered the same contract to a player, who would he choose? I don't think fanbase, club prestige or history will come into his decision. He will look at which club is more progressive, and which club is more likely to win major honours. Right now I'd back City, as I think they will get much better under Pep.

Liverpool are below United, Chelsea and City in terms of pulling power IMO.

I just think if Lionel Messi for instance was to ever leave Barca for England, he'd choose City over any other club and it has nothing to do with their 'size' or brandname.

[Jourdan]

7 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

When have you ever heard the Mouriniho & player development mentioned in the same sentence before??  He has always been, and always will be a cheque book manager.  He wants to win things, not slowly develop a way of playing, to be a club's mantras for years to come.  Also, the board & fans wouldn't allow a manager to be like that.  Fergie's success has spoiled them, and they want to win every trophy going now, not tomorrow, as they consider it an affront they haven't won the league/champions league in FOUR seasons.  

Well, every job is different and every job presents a different challenge. Just because Mourinho isn't renowned for developing young players and playing stylish attacking football doesn't mean he is not capable of such things, and just because Mourinho made use of the resources at his disposal at previous clubs doesn't necessarily suggest he is a chequebook manager.

When you perform to a consistently high level and win silverware at the rate that he does, you are going to gain the respect, trust and confidence of your board members to do as you please and they are more likely to back you financially if you have the record that Mourinho does.

Of course, Mourinho wants to win trophies and of course, the fans want to win trophies but as a club, how they go about their business is an important consideration. I have already mentioned the sense of entitlement.

For years, all we have heard from the Nevilles, Scholes and many other ex-players is about the importance of seeing exciting, attacking football from United. They must win, but not only that they must win in the right way.

I don't think that thirst for attacking football has dissipated. The ethos and the traditions of the club need to be upheld and respected. When you win two trophies in your first season and qualify for the Champions League after an absence of many years, it can mask such issues.

For me, I just don't see United progressing from where they are now if they continue in the same fashion. The moment they signed Pogba was the moment I knew they would finish outside the top four. I don't expect them to make further inroads by simply throwing enough cash around for a quick gold rush, and not having a sense of direction to follow. Surely Mourinho must be aware of the demands placed on him with this job and that he can't approach it like he has done every other job.

My post centred around it being the approach I think they should take, not the one they necessarily will. All the signs point to them spending hundreds of millions again and doing something different to what I suggested. I guess only time will tell. This is not Mourinho's Manchester United yet and he is still to make his mark, so we shall see.