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Accountability in a faceless society

NottsRam77

By NottsRam77
in The Jim Smith Room

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ilkleyram

ilkleyram

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

People would still have the freedom to say and express what they want over the net, that wouldnt change, no ones taking away the freedom of speech

But what it would mean is that they are then accountable for what they say

It would then be no different to standing on a soapbox in the middle of a high street in this country.

you can say what u want but u are accountable for what u say, a computer screen and a random username shouldnt be a mask for people to be able to stir racial hatred, recruit radicalists to a evil ideology or allow child grooming to be able to happen just because these people sit behind a fake username and email addresses 

hence my call for accountability

But anyhow it wont happen it was just an idea

 

But we are already accountable for what we write on the internet NR77 - the laws already exist to make libel or racial hatred or any other sort of hatred come to that, an offence.  We are not free to say whatever we want, on the internet or anywhere else, and haven't been for hundreds of years.

What I understand you are arguing for is a better/easier means of the authorities identifying real people behind internet identities so that prosecutions can take place.  Not 5 miles away from me is RAF Menwith Hill - locally, the golf balls - where they can listen in on mobile phone and other conversations taking place in Aleppo or Moscow or Washington if they want (it's largely an American base so they probably do), so the technology and knowledge surely exists to find out who actually hides behind internet profiles, if it's important enough.

And then there's the data laws - the Data Protection Act that supposedly protects us from our information being misused, largely by levying fines against organisations - private and public - that transgress; and the Investigatory Powers Bill (or snoopers charter) that allows security forces to access internet history data when it is needed to help their investigations and this data will be stored for a total of 12 months in order to utilise it. 48 public authorities can access the data including police forces all over the UK, Secret Intelligence Service, GCHQ, and the Home Office. 

But so too can:

Fire and rescue authorities 
Food Standards Agency
Food Standards Scotland
Gambling Commission
Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority
Health and Safety Executive
Independent Police Complaints Commissioner
Information Commissioner
NHS Business Services Authority
Northern Ireland Ambulance Service Health and Social Care Trust
Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service Board
Northern Ireland Health and Social Care Regional Business Services Organisation
Office of Communications
Office of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland
Police Investigations and Review Commissioner
Scottish Ambulance Service Board
Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission
Welsh Ambulance Services National Health Service Trust

Are they all fighting the war on terror? In my view we are tipping over a point - largely driven by playing on public fears about terrorism - where the state and its various organs are able to be too intrusive.  Why do the Food Standards Agency, or the NHS, or the Gambling Commission have the ability to access my personal data online (even if they are unlikely to do so)?  Are we taking the war against obesity a little too far perhaps.

And therein lies the danger to you and me and society.  It's no argument to say 'if you are doing no wrong you will be OK' because your definition of doing wrong may not be someone elses; because Governments change and there is no telling that we won't vote in an autocratic Government in 10/20/30 years time that might have different views; and because laws have a funny habit of changing incrementally over time and rarely to increase freedoms.  

 

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David

David

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

It's no argument to say 'if you are doing no wrong you will be OK' because your definition of doing wrong may not be someone elses; because Governments change and there is no telling that we won't vote in an autocratic Government in 10/20/30 years time that might have different views; and because laws have a funny habit of changing incrementally over time and rarely to increase freedoms.

True, I guess when I said this a few posts back I'm thinking of strapping bombs to yourself, sharing images of underage children and not the potential of eating popcorn gifs made illegal in 2020.

It's a difficult one as I don't believe we should hand over privacy but struggle to see an alternative to taking the sick ******** off the streets, should be possible to do that with giving very limited access to the relevant agencies, not Food Standards.

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JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

Posted
Posted

I think the collection of personal data online is inevitable, I think the way it is policed is the key issue that needs sorting out.

An ideal scenario in my mind would be that there is essentially a stored record for the data held independently of any government or agency. Should they access your personal information data set you are notified. If there is no legal reason for them to do so then you should have the opportunity to refuse this access.

It would almost be an evolution of the way credit reports work now. If someone looks at my credit report online because I am applying for a mortgage or credit card I am notified and I can determine whether this access was consented by myself or not.

What we don't want is over zealous governments having half of GCHQ sat down trawling the internet monitoring as many people as possible based on random key words or activities.

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GeneralRam

GeneralRam

Posted
Posted

I'm very big on privacy, it's one of the reasons why I cannot stand Theresa May. IT is my field of expertise so hopefully my opinion counts for something.

First of all, it's not the government I am bothered about, it's the hackers. The moment you add a backdoor or allow access into the encryption, this WILL be broken. It's not a question of IF but WHEN someone gets in and sees everything about you which could ruin your life. Cheating on the Mrs? Ordering that little bit of weed off someone? Got some weird sex fetish? It would all get out and could cost you everything.

Everyone has something they don't want everyone else to know.

At the moment all ISPs and phone companies need to keep a 12 month history on you. This is kept on their servers, not government ones. Here's a recent TalkTalk hack - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34743185. If this law was in effect when this happened, people could have had their history gone too and leaked onto the internet or held to ransom.

Another thing is internet banking.... If a law gets bought in to force a backdoor then I wouldn't be using any banking on the internet at all to protect myself. Again it would be a matter of time before something gets hacked.

As evidenced by the NHS computer problems recently I wouldn't trust the government or any ISP to keep the data safe from unauthorised access. 

This is a dangerous road the UK is going down and shouldn't be done.

 

EDIT: I've realised I went off on a tangent here.... But it's the same sort of area so I'll leave it up.

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David

David

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, GeneralRam said:

I'm very big on privacy, it's one of the reasons why I cannot stand Theresa May. IT is my field of expertise so hopefully my opinion counts for something.

First of all, it's not the government I am bothered about, it's the hackers. The moment you add a backdoor or allow access into the encryption, this WILL be broken. It's not a question of IF but WHEN someone gets in and sees everything about you which could ruin your life. Cheating on the Mrs? Ordering that little bit of weed off someone? Got some weird sex fetish? It would all get out and could cost you everything.

Everyone has something they don't want everyone else to know.

At the moment all ISPs and phone companies need to keep a 12 month history on you. This is kept on their servers, not government ones. Here's a recent TalkTalk hack - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34743185. If this law was in effect when this happened, people could have had their history gone too.

Another thing is internet banking.... If a law gets bought in to force a backdoor then I wouldn't be using any banking on the internet at all to protect myself. Again it would be a matter of time before something gets hacked.

This is a dangerous road the UK is going down and shouldn't be done.

Wouldn't happen over night but surely these backdoors can be made just as secure as technology advances?

You only have to look around what is possible with phones, TV, gaming, social media, online banking than 5-10 years ago, we've even got Tesla's driving round themselves.   

Never say never

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GboroRam

GboroRam

Posted
Posted
Just now, David said:

Wouldn't happen over night but surely these backdoors can be made just as secure as technology advances?

You only have to look around what is possible with phones, TV, gaming, social media, online banking than 5-10 years ago, we've even got Tesla's driving round themselves.   

Never say never

Bear in mind the recent WannaCrypt outbreak that took down the NHS allegedly was hacked tech from the NSA. I wouldn't trust any agency to stay ahead of the hackers for long.

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GeneralRam

GeneralRam

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, David said:

Wouldn't happen over night but surely these backdoors can be made just as secure as technology advances?

You only have to look around what is possible with phones, TV, gaming, social media, online banking than 5-10 years ago, we've even got Tesla's driving round themselves.   

Never say never

I'm sorry but no. If there is a hole, it WILL be found and it WILL be exploited. There is no such thing as a secure backdoor.

It's a constant game of cat and mouse and we all know how the government likes to use technology from 10 years ago as seen on the NHS...

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David

David

Posted
Posted
Just now, GboroRam said:

Bear in mind the recent WannaCrypt outbreak that took down the NHS allegedly was hacked tech from the NSA. I wouldn't trust any agency to stay ahead of the hackers for long.

Of course, you always have to be moving forward and evolving, thats why I moved from PC to Mac...... :p

Just now, GeneralRam said:

If there is a hole, it WILL be found and it WILL be exploited.

Hey you don't need to tell me that, I know :thumbsup: 

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Gaspode

Gaspode

Posted
Posted
On 24/05/2017 at 10:05, StivePesley said:

.....Then you have Katie Hopkins tweeting that we need "a final solution" to rid the country of muslims. Is that acceptable? to publicly wish a holocaust on muslims?...

LBC and Hopkins have agreed she will leave LBC immediately....

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Stive Pesley

Stive Pesley

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

LBC and Hopkins have agreed she will leave LBC immediately....

An empty victory though - she will still post her deliberately objectionable nonsense on Twitter, and no doubt other ratings/click hungry media outfits will take her on

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