King Guardiola says he would have been sacked at a bigger club

[Day]

Is he trying to get sacked? ?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39926264

[RoyMac5]

Quote

"In my situation at a big club, I'm sacked. I'm out," said the Spaniard.

"If it is Barcelona and Bayern, you don't win and you are out. Here I have a second chance and I will try to do it better next season."

His honesty is very Moyes-like, lol.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

He isn't wrong though. City aren't on the level of clubs like Barca and Bayern yet.

[Bris Vegas]

No English club is on the level of Barca or Bayern. Pep just stating the obvious really.

[Day]

What he's saying is he wouldn't get away with a trophyless season at a big club but it's ok at Man City.

Incredibly poor choice of words. Unsurprising Man City fans agree.

http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/pep-i-would-have-been-sacked-at-barca-or-bayern.328429/

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, David said:

What he's saying is he wouldn't get away with a trophyless season at a big club but it's ok at Man City.

Incredibly poor choice of words. Unsurprising Man City fans agree.

http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/pep-i-would-have-been-sacked-at-barca-or-bayern.328429/

Why is it a poor choice of words?

You can look at it two ways. You can look at it like City aren't as big as Bayern or Barca (No English team is).

Or you could look at it as Guardiola admitting the strength of the English league.

The fact that Liverpool or Arsenal can go years without challenging, let alone winning, the PL title and for it to be accepted must suggest recognition of the strength of the top PL teams.

Utd look like finishing 6th and it's deemed a good season by Mourinho. Is it a case of how far the mighty have fallen or how tough it is to win be PL?

Chelsea would day it's easy to win the title. They could end up with more points than Barca or Real Madrid.

Could you imagine Real Madrid being happy with 6th and a Europa League win? They sack managers even if they win the league - ask Capello and Del Bosque

[Day]

51 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Why is it a poor choice of words?

You can look at it two ways. You can look at it like City aren't as big as Bayern or Barca (No English team is).

Or you could look at it as Guardiola admitting the strength of the English league.

The fact that Liverpool or Arsenal can go years without challenging, let alone winning, the PL title and for it to be accepted must suggest recognition of the strength of the top PL teams.

Utd look like finishing 6th and it's deemed a good season by Mourinho. Is it a case of how far the mighty have fallen or how tough it is to win be PL?

Chelsea would day it's easy to win the title. They could end up with more points than Barca or Real Madrid.

Could you imagine Real Madrid being happy with 6th and a Europa League win? They sack managers even if they win the league - ask Capello and Del Bosque

Put yourself in Man City fans shoes.

They have won the Premier League twice in recent years, they have qualified and want Champions League success, that's why Guardiola was brought in.

Man City fans expect success just like Barca and Bayern, the amount of money that has gone into the club over the years it's ok to expect silverwear. They are 18 points behind Chelsea and Guardiola says this whilst also apparently calling Man Utd a big club constantly, if Man City were a big club he would be sacked, jeeez. 

It's pretty disrespectful from your own manager and not what you want to hear him say.

It's quite easy to say this season is unacceptable without taking a pop at the club. 

I'm not arguing they are bigger clubs but you don't say it, that's like when your missus says does my arse look big in this, yes love it looks huge. You would get a slap and that's what Man City fans are doing now.

Reading that thread it sounds like it's not the first time he's spoke like this and angered them. 

[Day]

Worth noting how vocal the Wenger out protests have been this season. 3pts behind Man City. 

 

[Bris Vegas]

56 minutes ago, David said:

Put yourself in Man City fans shoes.

They have won the Premier League twice in recent years, they have qualified and want Champions League success, that's why Guardiola was brought in.

Man City fans expect success just like Barca and Bayern, the amount of money that has gone into the club over the years it's ok to expect silverwear. They are 18 points behind Chelsea and Guardiola says this whilst also apparently calling Man Utd a big club constantly, if Man City were a big club he would be sacked, jeeez. 

It's pretty disrespectful from your own manager and not what you want to hear him say.

It's quite easy to say this season is unacceptable without taking a pop at the club. 

I'm not arguing they are bigger clubs but you don't say it, that's like when your missus says does my arse look big in this, yes love it looks huge. You would get a slap and that's what Man City fans are doing now.

Reading that thread it sounds like it's not the first time he's spoke like this and angered them. 

Man City fans shouldn't expect success like Barca and Bayern because the clubs are miles apart. For Barca and Bayern European success and world recognition has been ingrained into the club from years ago. They are prestigious clubs, and their success isn't as a result of a new wealthy owner bankrolling the club.

City can't expect a CL win when they're nowhere near. They're not even the most dominant side in England and have won just two titles since being taken over some 9 years ago. 

Big clubs have history and European prestige. Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid have produced the likes of Iniesta, Busquets, Messi, Pique, Muller, Lahm, Kroos, Carvajal, Morata, Nacho and Vazquez among others.

The last player City produced which was any good was Micah Richards. That's hardly the sign of a leading club.

21 minutes ago, David said:

Worth noting how vocal the Wenger out protests have been this season. 3pts behind Man City. 

 

Arsenal fans aren't protesting due to their current position, they're protesting as a result of going some 10 years without actually challenging for the title with the club seemingly happy about it.

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Man City fans shouldn't expect success like Barca and Bayern because the clubs are miles apart

And your missus shouldn't expect to squeeze in a size 8 if she's a 14 but you don't tell her that. Dangerous ground.

[Bris Vegas]

4 minutes ago, David said:

And your missus shouldn't expect to squeeze in a size 8 if she's a 14 but you don't tell her that. Dangerous ground.

Maybe some fans need to hear the truth. Certain Derby fans do especially.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Maybe some fans need to hear the truth. Certain Derby fans do especially.

What's the truth of it though? That Man City aren't Barca or that Pep isn't as good as he thought?

[Day]

11 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Maybe some fans need to hear the truth. Certain Derby fans do especially.

I maybe way off and don't intend to be offend at all when I say this, I see you as a different kind of fan, you detach yourself from the emotional side of the game and focus purely on the football, nothing else.

Barca, Bayern, you appreciate the tactical side of the game and if Real Madrid developed a side similar to the one Guardiola created you could quite easily switch your support.

Pride Park, more likely to sit in the West Stand, not a touch of alcohol, not getting involved in the chants, songs, fully focused on players movement, tactics, all that. If there's anyone's match report you would want to read after it would be yours.

Where as there's another side to the game, blind faith, being a Derby fan believing top 2 each season, we're bigger than every club in the league, our squads the best.

Man City fans will be the same, that's why I don't disagree with Guardiola said at all, I just think it's better left unsaid. Calling your rivals a big club then saying yours isn't, not even Sean Dyche will go there, uses money argument instead. 

Some character assaination of you there Bris! Like I say no offence intended, just the image I've built up from reading your posts for many years now and probably why we will never agree on this Guardiola thing if you like.

[Bris Vegas]

17 minutes ago, David said:

I maybe way off and don't intend to be offend at all when I say this, I see you as a different kind of fan, you detach yourself from the emotional side of the game and focus purely on the football, nothing else.

Barca, Bayern, you appreciate the tactical side of the game and if Real Madrid developed a side similar to the one Guardiola created you could quite easily switch your support.

Pride Park, more likely to sit in the West Stand, not a touch of alcohol, not getting involved in the chants, songs, fully focused on players movement, tactics, all that. If there's anyone's match report you would want to read after it would be yours.

Where as there's another side to the game, blind faith, being a Derby fan believing top 2 each season, we're bigger than every club in the league, our squads the best.

Man City fans will be the same, that's why I don't disagree with Guardiola said at all, I just think it's better left unsaid. Calling your rivals a big club then saying yours isn't, not even Sean Dyche will go there, uses money argument instead. 

Some character assaination of you there Bris! Like I say no offence intended, just the image I've built up from reading your posts for many years now and probably why we will never agree on this Guardiola thing if you like.

Unless he was asked a specific question about it, then I'm not sure why he said that. In most articles the interviewer's questions aren't published so it's hard to really judge the angle of the comments.

Pep was probably asked whether he would be sacked at Barca or Bayern if he went trophyless for the season and why. What's he supposed to say when responding to that comment?

The logical answer is that those clubs demand success every season and in today's game a trophyless season at those clubs is unacceptable. The same can't be applied at City, as they finished 4th last season and surely have a long-term goal in mind. Their owners aren't stupid either, they'll know they're not in a position yet to start demanding success.

Also, I have morals. I could never be a Real Madrid fan. I may enjoy their football at times, but they're such an ungrateful bunch.

[Day]

13 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Unless he was asked a specific question about it, then I'm not sure why he said that. In most articles the interviewer's questions aren't published so it's hard to really judge the angle of the comments.

Pep was probably asked whether he would be sacked at Barca or Bayern if he went trophyless for the season and why. What's he supposed to say when responding to that comment?

True, would be an odd question to ask but more context probably needed. 

Quote

The logical answer is that those clubs demand success every season and in today's game a trophyless season at those clubs is unacceptable. The same can't be applied at City, as they finished 4th last season and surely have a long-term goal in mind. Their owners aren't stupid either, they'll know their not in a position yet to start demanding success.

Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool all these fans demand success every season, fans and owners expectations are not always aligned. 

Whilst the Wenger Out protests have been brewing for a while now they were fairly quiet, what has made them more vocal is the prospect of missing out on Champions League football. 

Man City fans had high expectations, partly the media to blame, they finished 16pts ahead of Chelsea last season, this year 18 behind. This I admit is flawed given what happened under Mourinho. 

They finished 15pts behind Leicester, now this seasoned they win their game in hand the gap between them and first will be 15pts again. Zero progress in terms of points on the board having spent a fair amount. 

Whilst expecting to lift the title maybe unfair you want to see some progress, seeing Conte sort Chelsea out will leave them asking questions rightly or wrongly.

It's not the time to start belittling your clubs status but as I mentioned above, more context is probably needed but it's a horrible sound bite to come out.

 

[Bris Vegas]

8 minutes ago, David said:

True, would be an odd question to ask but more context probably needed. 

Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool all these fans demand success every season, fans and owners expectations are not always aligned. 

Whilst the Wenger Out protests have been brewing for a while now they were fairly quiet, what has made them more vocal is the prospect of missing out on Champions League football. 

Man City fans had high expectations, partly the media to blame, they finished 16pts ahead of Chelsea last season, this year 18 behind. This I admit is flawed given what happened under Mourinho. 

They finished 15pts behind Leicester, now this seasoned they win their game in hand the gap between them and first will be 15pts again. Zero progress in terms of points on the board having spent a fair amount. 

Whilst expecting to lift the title maybe unfair you want to see some progress, seeing Conte sort Chelsea out will leave them asking questions rightly or wrongly.

It's not the time to start belittling your clubs status but as I mentioned above, more context is probably needed but it's a horrible sound bite to come out.

 

City have definitely made progress this season. They've managed to lower the average age of the team by bringing in the likes of Stones, Sane and Gabriel Jesus who are players for the next 10 years.

They're on course to finish about 12 points ahead of last season's points total, a position higher in 3rd, scored more goals and the style of football is undoubtedly better. 

Conte has done a great job at Chelsea, but as I mentioned in another thread, he took over a Premier League winning squad with a number of players still in their prime. 

Guardiola didn't have that sort of luxury and is still I believe at least three transfer windows away from having the squad which he can really work with.

[Day]

12 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

City have definitely made progress this season. They've managed to lower the average age of the team by bringing in the likes of Stones, Sane and Gabriel Jesus who are players for the next 10 years.

They're on course to finish about 12 points ahead of last season's points total, a position higher in 3rd, scored more goals and the style of football is undoubtedly better. 

Conte has done a great job at Chelsea, but as I mentioned in another thread, he took over a Premier League winning squad with a number of players still in their prime. 

Guardiola didn't have that sort of luxury and is still I believe at least three transfer windows away from having the squad which he can really work with.

Progress is usually based on how close you are to hitting your targets, winning the league will be City fans. Not saying that's right or tells the full story but just how a lot see it.

Conte had a better squad for sure but mentally a mess under Mourinho, hard to know how much credit he deserves for turning that around but winning the league puts it all in the last out of mind.

4th title in 4 years now isn't it? 3 under Juventus, can already see the media swinging towards a Conte love in with Guardiola not having the best of relationships with them, which might help lower the expectation levels at City but probably too late now. 

 

[Jourdan]

The truth is that if his name wasn't Pep Guardiola, he would have been sacked at Manchester City too. Yes, Barcelona and Bayern Munich are far bigger and far more prestigious clubs but even at City, the expectation is still pretty high.

Simply, he's being given time and patience because he's Pep Guardiola and widely regarded as the best manager in the game.  His prowess, his reputation and his ideals are what the board at Manchester City have always wanted. They've wanted him for a long time and gave him a king's welcome. They are not going to sack him after a year in any circumstances. He has to get it right. £160 million plus spent and no trophies won, the club look daft. But sacking him now, they would look even more daft.

But let's be honest, when you look at the job Conte has done at Chelsea and how Pochettino and Klopp are developing Spurs and Liverpool, it takes the shine off Guardiola.

It takes more than two transfer windows to rebuild a team, we can all agree. But nothing I've seen from Guardiola - whether it be team performance, man-management, recruitment or tactics - points to a man who can inspire City to new heights any time soon.

The way he was talked about, he seemed to be the man who could walk on water in football management terms. I'm really underwhelmed, to be honest. 

 

[Bris Vegas]

21 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

The truth is that if his name wasn't Pep Guardiola, he would have been sacked at Manchester City too. Yes, Barcelona and Bayern Munich are far bigger and far more prestigious clubs but even at City, the expectation is still pretty high.

Simply, he's being given time and patience because he's Pep Guardiola and widely regarded as the best manager in the game.  His prowess, his reputation and his ideals are what the board at Manchester City have always wanted. They've wanted him for a long time and gave him a king's welcome. They are not going to sack him after a year in any circumstances. He has to get it right. £160 million plus spent and no trophies won, the club look daft. But sacking him now, they would look even more daft.

But let's be honest, when you look at the job Conte has done at Chelsea and how Pochettino and Klopp are developing Spurs and Liverpool, it takes the shine off Guardiola.

It takes more than two transfer windows to rebuild a team, we can all agree. But nothing I've seen from Guardiola - whether it be team performance, man-management, recruitment or tactics - points to a man who can inspire City to new heights any time soon.

The way he was talked about, he seemed to be the man who could walk on water in football management terms. I'm really underwhelmed, to be honest. 

 

But what were you expecting?

City finished on 66 points last season, and in most seasons would have missed out on the top four with such a low points haul. They have an ageing squad, with only one or two genuine world class players.

Chelsea certainly have a better squad of players. I'd argue Arsenal and Tottenham do too.

I don't think City appointed a manager to win everything this season. They appointed a manager who they regard as the best in the world and are looking for a long-term dynasty.

You can't just become an elite club overnight. Guardiola isn't a miracle worker, he can't suddenly stop Raheem Sterling from taking airshots and consistently choosing the wrong option.

He's spent a lot - but not that much more than their direct rivals. He hasn't gone out an spent £160m on Messi, Neymar and Pique, he's spent the bulk of it on Stones, Sane and Jesus - three players years off their peak.

Guardiola has already progressed City from 12 months ago, and there is no reason why he can't progress them further in the coming year when he has better players at his disposal.

Nobody could honestly win a league with Zabaleta, Clichy, Sagna and Otamendi as a back four. 

As for Pochettino, he's doing a great job but it's not happened overnight. Spurs finished on 69 points in 2013/14 and appointed Pochettino in the summer. His first season he finished on 64 points, then the second on 70. 

City have already surpassed those two amounts. starting off from an even worse position. It takes time, and Guardiola needs at least two more summers.

[Jourdan]

57 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

But what were you expecting?

City finished on 66 points last season, and in most seasons would have missed out on the top four with such a low points haul. They have an ageing squad, with only one or two genuine world class players.

Chelsea certainly have a better squad of players. I'd argue Arsenal and Tottenham do too.

I don't think City appointed a manager to win everything this season. They appointed a manager who they regard as the best in the world and are looking for a long-term dynasty.

You can't just become an elite club overnight. Guardiola isn't a miracle worker, he can't suddenly stop Raheem Sterling from taking airshots and consistently choosing the wrong option.

He's spent a lot - but not that much more than their direct rivals. He hasn't gone out an spent £160m on Messi, Neymar and Pique, he's spent the bulk of it on Stones, Sane and Jesus - three players years off their peak.

Guardiola has already progressed City from 12 months ago, and there is no reason why he can't progress them further in the coming year when he has better players at his disposal.

Nobody could honestly win a league with Zabaleta, Clichy, Sagna and Otamendi as a back four. 

As for Pochettino, he's doing a great job but it's not happened overnight. Spurs finished on 69 points in 2013/14 and appointed Pochettino in the summer. His first season he finished on 64 points, then the second on 70. 

City have already surpassed those two amounts. starting off from an even worse position. It takes time, and Guardiola needs at least two more summers.

15 points behind and never a serious threat to Chelsea, the same Chelsea team that finished in 10th last season, was not what I expected, that's for sure.

I didn't expect Guardiola to come in and win everything immediately either. Second at best, to be honest. I just expected to see signs that he was the real deal and worth all the hype. But a lot of what he has done so far at City seems counter intuitive to me if he wants to win anything at all here in England.

Too much emphasis on buying for the future, too much emphasis on signing flair players, too keen to force out or alienate players who made up the core of previously successful sides, unable to get the best out of many of his players and seemingly unable to get his players to execute or buy into his vision. All areas where the likes of Conte, Pochettino and Klopp have seemed to gain more traction or shown a greater understanding of what works here.

You say that Guardiola isn't a miracle worker. But where others have bettered him is man-management. You look at how Conte has transformed the Chelsea careers of Pedro and Moses and got the best out of Luiz, Azpilicueta, Hazard and Costa, as a prime example. Why are such things beyond Guardiola? You are selling this City team short. They were title favourites in many people's eyes at the start of the season.

You said it yourself, the defence was the obvious place to address. So why sign just one defender and a goalkeeper? Surely Stones and Bravo alone were never going to be enough. As an example, the first thing I would have done is called Southampton and prised Virgil van Dijk away.

Guardiola needs two more summers? To do what? To achieve what Conte achieved in one? Be more precise.