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Chris Martin - joined Reading on loan until the end of the season


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2 hours ago, toddy said:

You could actually argue it is actually easier to score goals now than back then as the goal size has increased. Its is certainly a less physical now than then.

You COULD argue that

But you WOULD be wrong

Average goals per game has been decreasing since the game first started and it's been hovering around the 2.6/2.7 per game rate for about the last 40 years - The late 60s was the last prolific era for goals and then the 70s was fairly dry...

Strikers have got better, goals have got bigger BUT defences have got better, tactics have been honed and footballers have got more professional - All seems to have mostly balanced out

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46 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Another Chris Martin thread? Can't we lump them altogether and dub the amalgamated version 'Toddy-Twaddle' or something along those lines?

Its a bit like fly fishing, cast the line.......:lol:

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1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

You COULD argue that

But you WOULD be wrong

Average goals per game has been decreasing since the game first started and it's been hovering around the 2.6/2.7 per game rate for about the last 40 years - The late 60s was the last prolific era for goals and then the 70s was fairly dry...

Strikers have got better, goals have got bigger BUT defences have got better, tactics have been honed and footballers have got more professional - All seems to have mostly balanced out

Have I drifted into another universe? Aren't goals still 24ft by 8ft?. I know they look bigger when you are going through school, and again when you are old and knackered and shrinking but ............

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8 minutes ago, bcnram said:

Have I drifted into another universe? Aren't goals still 24ft by 8ft?. I know they look bigger when you are going through school, and again when you are old and knackered and shrinking but ............

No you haven't. Been the same since 1884 ish when crossbar became compulsory. Width always been the same.

Martin has it so much easier.

What next? The ball makes it easier?

Posters talking drivel. Although why would we expect anything else eh?!

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the only direct way to compare is hector reached and played at the top level of the game for a long time , was very sucessfull , won things , was loved by the fans of our club and earnt legend status , Martin is a good player but has not risen to the top level and I suspect won't , there in ends the comparison , , yep you could take Martin back in a time machine with the fitness levels needed today and chances are he would stand out but that means nothing , reaching the top level and staying there needs many qualities , talent , relative fitness , attitude , determination , dedication ,, hector achieved more than Martin ever will , that's no slur on Martin , hector achieved far more than the majority of players in any era

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1 hour ago, archied said:

the only direct way to compare is hector reached and played at the top level of the game for a long time , was very sucessfull , won things , was loved by the fans of our club and earnt legend status , Martin is a good player but has not risen to the top level and I suspect won't , there in ends the comparison , , yep you could take Martin back in a time machine with the fitness levels needed today and chances are he would stand out but that means nothing , reaching the top level and staying there needs many qualities , talent , relative fitness , attitude , determination , dedication ,, hector achieved more than Martin ever will , that's no slur on Martin , hector achieved far more than the majority of players in any era

And breathe.........

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14 hours ago, toddy said:

Please keep up, I did -

Kevin Hector played and scored at a much higher level than Martin

Your debate is like saying Ricky Miller is a better striker than Martin!!!

Its all about context and placing KH and CM in the same bracket is madness.

No, you didn't. Your entire point regarding Martin's decline seems to be his goal tally going down over the past couple of seasons. You were told that we won the league Hector scored less than he did in his debut season but nobody was saying he declined as a player. Nobody is placing them in the same bracket like you suggest, only you are. Jamie Vardy has scored less goals this season than last season, so has Troy Deeney yet fans of both teams will not say either have declined.

To keep it in the Championship, Nakhi Wells has scored significantly less goals this season for Huddersfield than he did last season yet they're in a much better position in the league. Has he declined? Well clearly not as he's still playing every game and Huddersfield have scored a similar amount of goals, it's just clear he has a different role within the team.

I'll explain it as simply as I can. The point that's being made is that just because a players goals decline from one season to another doesn't mean he's a worse player than he was before or on the decline, a concept which you seem to be really struggling to grasp.

'Please keep up' Toddy.

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Just had a look at last seasons completed championship table. 

Derby scored 66 goals

This season thus far we're on 49 and I'm kinda guessing we're not gonna hit the back of the net a further 18 times to over haul last seasons total.

Fulham however are the leagues top scorers with 78 goals so far. 

No doubt some miserable Chris martin hater will come up with some sort of Kevin hector, Bobby Davison, Chris Maguire, Stern John, Junior, Paulo Wanchope, Charlie George and Steve Bloomer explanation to how this is all coincidence and as usual Martin is a sack of **** lazy fat b*****d who is in decline but worth £15 million of another club's money.

But the goals tally for both sides doesn't lie. And he is the common denominator.

Can't wait to see what b******s get spouted now! 

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9 hours ago, lrm14 said:

No, you didn't. Your entire point regarding Martin's decline seems to be his goal tally going down over the past couple of seasons. You were told that we won the league Hector scored less than he did in his debut season but nobody was saying he declined as a player. Nobody is placing them in the same bracket like you suggest, only you are. Jamie Vardy has scored less goals this season than last season, so has Troy Deeney yet fans of both teams will not say either have declined.

To keep it in the Championship, Nakhi Wells has scored significantly less goals this season for Huddersfield than he did last season yet they're in a much better position in the league. Has he declined? Well clearly not as he's still playing every game and Huddersfield have scored a similar amount of goals, it's just clear he has a different role within the team.

I'll explain it as simply as I can. The point that's being made is that just because a players goals decline from one season to another doesn't mean he's a worse player than he was before or on the decline, a concept which you seem to be really struggling to grasp.

'Please keep up' Toddy.

Your answer is season on season, not just one. :thumbsup:

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9 hours ago, toddy said:

Your answer is season on season, not just one. :thumbsup:

Well one season (14/15) he was on course to beat the goals scored in 13/14 but spent a very long period injured so it's unfair to count that. This season he's been at a different club. That's one season (15/16) at Derby where his goals have gone down without injury being the cause.

Come on Toddy use your brain. Think of a solid rebuttal that isn't just another deflection. I believe in you.

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On 4/20/2017 at 14:08, bcnram said:

Have I drifted into another universe? Aren't goals still 24ft by 8ft?. I know they look bigger when you are going through school, and again when you are old and knackered and shrinking but ............

I assumed toddy had done his research on that

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1 hour ago, lrm14 said:

Well one season (14/15) he was on course to beat the goals scored in 13/14 but spent a very long period injured so it's unfair to count that. This season he's been at a different club. That's one season (15/16) at Derby where his goals have gone down without injury being the cause.

Come on Toddy use your brain. Think of a solid rebuttal that isn't just another deflection. I believe in you.

None of that matters in his world, all that counts is goals scored. doesn't matter on how many games the striker played, doesn't matter on minutes per a goal, doesn't matter why the player isn't in the team.

I mean quite clearly Heskey was a better player in the premier league than Ronaldo as he scored more goals. I mean that is all that counts. Total number of goals scored. The fact that Heskey played nearly 3 times more games than Ronaldo doesn't matter, total goals is that does.

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1 hour ago, lrm14 said:

Well one season (14/15) he was on course to beat the goals scored in 13/14 but spent a very long period injured so it's unfair to count that. This season he's been at a different club. That's one season (15/16) at Derby where his goals have gone down without injury being the cause.

Come on Toddy use your brain. Think of a solid rebuttal that isn't just another deflection. I believe in you.

He spent I very long time injured? He played 5 less games[league & cup] than the previous season [taking away the play off matches] - or 8 with the extra games.

His goal count has decreased season on season, regardless of any excuses. Most strikers have dips not sure how many actually score less goals each season, apart from those that have peaked?

This season he has been at a club that is attack minded, more than we have been since 13/14, yet he is not even in the top 20 top goal scorers for the championship this season.

Don't get me wrong he was a decent striker for us but that was a few seasons back. He fitted into a certain style of play under Mac 1 with other players around him.

Those most of those players from that era have are not here, and Bryson is now 3 years older than he was then and is nowhere near the level now.

You know Martin might come back in June, but only if Fulham don't want him and Lambert changes his mind........

The question would be then does Martin fit into the pressing game GR wants us to play?

 

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12 minutes ago, toddy said:

Don't get me wrong he was a decent striker for us but that was a few seasons back. He fitted into a certain style of play under Mac 1 with other players around him.

...

You know Martin might come back in June, but only if Fulham don't want him and Lambert changes his mind........

The question would be then does Martin fit into the pressing game GR wants us to play?

 

How has Martin managed at Fulham without Mac1? Or are you suggesting that Joka is a Mac1 clone?

How do you know what game GR is going to play? He's already tried more than one set up.

ps Martin will come back if he wants to.

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3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How has Martin managed at Fulham without Mac1? Or are you suggesting that Joka is a Mac1 clone?

How do you know what game GR is going to play? He's already tried more than one set up.

ps Martin will come back if he wants to.

Not very well, hence why he has scored so few goals in an attack minded team.

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