StringerBell Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 28 minutes ago, StivePesley said: I'd argue that the ideology of communism is far from "disgusting". In fact in pure terms it would be the perfect society. Granted there has yet to be a real-life modern-era deployment of communism that has gone well, but were it ever possible to implement it in a pure way (which I suspect is close to impossible) it would actually suit a lot of the things you advocate It's fine for termites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 What have I started, what would Dot think of all this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, David said: What have I started, what would Dot think of all this Yep, who'd have thought Dot Cotton would spark a debate on communism? The Eastern Block Enders possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 44 minutes ago, StringerBell said: So when you brought up that group you brought up the members of that group, of which my brother is one, you brought up my brother. So without naming him individually you brought him up. Except you were never able to prove that your brother was a victim of hate crime (ie he was attacked exclusively for his ethnicity). Hence the reason it felt like you had rather shoe-horned him into the group to try and make your tedious case. That's why it felt like I didn't *really" bring up your brother at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 All I will say about communism is that it takes walls/barbed wire and guards to keep people in and they are willing to risk their life to escape it .Must be bloody marvellous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, StivePesley said: Except you were never able to prove that your brother was a victim of hate crime (ie he was attacked exclusively for his ethnicity). Hence the reason it felt like you had rather shoe-horned him into the group to try and make your tedious case. That's why it felt like I didn't *really" bring up your brother at all. What proof would you like? He had a brick thrown at him while being called a white so and so. You shoehorned hate crimes into the discussion to start with, blaming them on Brexit with no proof. You put them all in the same box as McRamadan said. I added nuance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, StringerBell said: What proof would you like? He had a brick thrown at him while being called a white so and so. I mean - if I'm being honest I think you just made it up and it never actually happened. Some actual details would have been interesting. Where was it? What was he doing at the time to provoke such an attack? What was the outcome of the police investigation? etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, StivePesley said: I mean - if I'm being honest I think you just made it up and it never actually happened. Some actual details would have been interesting. Where was it? What was he doing at the time to provoke such an attack? What was the outcome of the police investigation? etc It was around Bradford as I said. It was after the guy pranged him. He mouthed off, sped off, went round a roundabout and came back past with a brick. There was a taxi driver witness. The police said they couldn't find him as he was driving somebody else's car. Think I said that as well. When the car owner turned out to be black even though the perp was Asian they weren't very keen on prosecuting the owner for the damage caused even though that would have probably prompted him to shop his mate. Shall I ask him if he's still got his crime number? Or shall I just tell him he's a liar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 54 minutes ago, David said: What have I started, what would Dot think of all this Pol Dot, I've heard her called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 1 hour ago, StringerBell said: It was around Bradford as I said. It was after the guy pranged him. He mouthed off, sped off, went round a roundabout and came back past with a brick. There was a taxi driver witness. The police said they couldn't find him as he was driving somebody else's car. Think I said that as well. When the car owner turned out to be black even though the perp was Asian they weren't very keen on prosecuting the owner for the damage caused even though that would have probably prompted him to shop his mate. Shall I ask him if he's still got his crime number? Or shall I just tell him he's a liar? So it wasn't a hate crime - it was a car accident with attempted assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 33 minutes ago, StivePesley said: So it wasn't a hate crime - it was a car accident with attempted assault. What? He gave racial verbals, drove off then came back, gave more racial verbals and lobbed a brick while my brother was talking to the taxi driver about what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 30 minutes ago, StringerBell said: What? He gave racial verbals, drove off then came back, gave more racial verbals and lobbed a brick while my brother was talking to the taxi driver about what happened. But his actions weren’t motivated by any kind of racism. It sounds like he would have done the exact same thing regardless of whoever had crashed into him, he was just a joy-riding low-life. If that had happened to me, there is no way on earth I would have considered it a “hate crime” I’d have considered the actions to be criminal enough to make whatever words he used not even worth worrying about. Anyone coming out the end of that experience with the most upsetting part being “he called me a white so and so” really needs to have a word with themselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 43 minutes ago, StivePesley said: But his actions weren’t motivated by any kind of racism. It sounds like he would have done the exact same thing regardless of whoever had crashed into him, he was just a joy-riding low-life. If that had happened to me, there is no way on earth I would have considered it a “hate crime” I’d have considered the actions to be criminal enough to make whatever words he used not even worth worrying about. Anyone coming out the end of that experience with the most upsetting part being “he called me a white so and so” really needs to have a word with themselves! And if the roles were reversed I'm sure you'd be saying the same. In the articles about spikes in 'hate crime' videos of similar instances of 'hate crime' but without the violence were put out there but that's ok I supppse because it was white British people doing it and remainers could use it as ammunition. Strange this didn't give you pause for thought while claiming there was a wave of hate crimes sweeping the nation that Brexit was responsible for considering your newfound stance. I wouldn't class anything as a 'hate crime' because the concept of 'hate crime' is Orwellian. But regardless of what you, the police or anyone else thinks about it the only person whose opinion counts is that of my brother because that's how the 'hate crime' laws work. As I've already said if I feel that your post is a 'hate crime' or 'hate incident' and contact the police then they must log it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 25 minutes ago, StringerBell said: And if the roles were reversed I'm sure you'd be saying the same. In the articles about spikes in 'hate crime' videos of similar instances of 'hate crime' but without the violence were put out there but that's ok I supppse because it was white British people doing it and remainers could use it as ammunition. Strange this didn't give you pause for thought while claiming there was a wave of hate crimes sweeping the nation that Brexit was responsible for considering your newfound stance. I wouldn't class anything as a 'hate crime' because the concept of 'hate crime' is Orwellian. But regardless of what you, the police or anyone else thinks about it the only person whose opinion counts is that of my brother because that's how the 'hate crime' laws work. As I've already said if I feel that your post is a 'hate crime' or 'hate incident' and contact the police then they must log it so. Well congratulations that you have spotted my intention - which was to show how wrong it is to belittle and question the authenticity of reported hate crimes. I think we've both had our points proved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 18 minutes ago, StivePesley said: Well congratulations that you have spotted my intention - which was to show how wrong it is to belittle and question the authenticity of reported hate crimes. I think we've both had our points proved It isn't wrong to question the authenticity of hate crimes for the reasons I've already given. Scepticism is a good thing Stive. But I've never cited my brothers experience as anything other than his experience. However, you have politicised others experiences despite not knowing who committed which 'hate crimes' and towards whom, what their motivations were and took no account of the media fanning the flames by making headline news of an extra 30 odd 'hate crimes'. I remember at the time you buying into this before any more data was available. You chucked all post-Brexit 'hate crimes' into one basket, that basket being 'Brexit is to blame'. This included my brothers experience. When my brother reported this incident and asked for it to be classed as a hate crime little did he know this would be used as a weapon against Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Denying there were immediate anti EU immigrant incidents is a bit revisionist. It's possible to try to excuse it by a numbers game but it was pretty undeniable at the time. Thankfully the immediate jump in incidents seems to have stopped but clearly some people relished in feeling that the vote result was a sign they could turn on immigrants. Very different to altication leading to verbal racial abuse. The pictures are all based on someone's nationality being a trigger for a racist incident. Directly after Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Denying there were immediate anti EU immigrant incidents is a bit revisionist. It's possible to try to excuse it by a numbers game but it was pretty undeniable at the time. Thankfully the immediate jump in incidents seems to have stopped but clearly some people relished in feeling that the vote result was a sign they could turn on immigrants. Very different to altication leading to verbal racial abuse. The pictures are all based on someone's nationality being a trigger for a racist incident. Directly after Brexit. Who's doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 2 hours ago, StringerBell said: But I've never cited my brothers experience as anything other than his experience. However, you have politicised others experiences despite not knowing who committed which 'hate crimes' and towards whom, what their motivations Sorry but that's rubbish - you politicised it the second you brought it up to try and prove a point in a political argument 2 hours ago, StringerBell said: When my brother reported this incident and asked for it to be classed as a hate crime little did he know this would be used as a weapon against Brexit Kind of serves him right, as it wasn't really a hate crime was it - it was just a crime Funny how people who want to draw attention to "reverse racism" with the "why is it OK for him to call me a white ***", yet if I were to say that to him..." argument are only really drawing attention to the fact that they are essentially admitting that they wish they could be openly racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, StringerBell said: Who's doing that? The foreigners themselves probably did it, so the so called far-right would get the blamed. Probably a Feminist/Islamist/Leftwing plot. Hey, did I mention I was pretty easy going? For a paid troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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