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The Importance of supportive fans home and away.


Ellafella
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Mac has made it his business quite a few times this season to comment on the Rams fans and how much they have helped the team. He said this after Leeds at home and also at WBA in the cup. Some topics on this Board have asserted the need to be positive at all times even when things are not going well so that players are encouraged. It's common sense really. Some players sometimes need extra help to get through losses of form and confidence issues. More recently, some fans have started to criticise other fans for making players scapegoats. The consensus seems to be that Derby fans are no worse at scapegoating than other sets of fans. 

Indeed, it is common sense but there is also a well established body of research in sports psychology that supports the common sense view. In fact, the effect of the "mere presence" of other people having an ameliorative effect on sports performance goes back to 1897 with the first experiments showing the positive impact on cyclists' time trials. https://tinyurl.com/hrc58vj

The research explains the "home" advantage saying that large, participative, interactive supporters will improve players' performance levels for the home team and may also inhibit the away team from performing. It's not straightforward though...if players perceive that their performance will be negatively evaluated, this can actually inhibit the home side. To quote the research "

"It is generally understood that a supportive and friendly crowd will help the home team. What is the effect,however, of a seemingly hostile crowd on player performance? Research by Greer (1983) demonstrated that sustained hostile spectator protests have a clearly negative impact on the visiting team".

So, the larger, the louder, the more dense the (Derby) crowd, being positively supportive, the better. There is no positive effect of booing or targeting individuals. Common sense really. 

 

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44 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Mac has made it his business quite a few times this season to comment on the Rams fans and how much they have helped the team. He said this after Leeds at home and also at WBA in the cup. Some topics on this Board have asserted the need to be positive at all times even when things are not going well so that players are encouraged. It's common sense really. Some players sometimes need extra help to get through losses of form and confidence issues. More recently, some fans have started to criticise other fans for making players scapegoats. The consensus seems to be that Derby fans are no worse at scapegoating than other sets of fans. 

Indeed, it is common sense but there is also a well established body of research in sports psychology that supports the common sense view. In fact, the effect of the "mere presence" of other people having an ameliorative effect on sports performance goes back to 1897 with the first experiments showing the positive impact on cyclists' time trials. https://tinyurl.com/hrc58vj

The research explains the "home" advantage saying that large, participative, interactive supporters will improve players' performance levels for the home team and may also inhibit the away team from performing. It's not straightforward though...if players perceive that their performance will be negatively evaluated, this can actually inhibit the home side. To quote the research "

"It is generally understood that a supportive and friendly crowd will help the home team. What is the effect,however, of a seemingly hostile crowd on player performance? Research by Greer (1983) demonstrated that sustained hostile spectator protests have a clearly negative impact on the visiting team".

So, the larger, the louder, the more dense the (Derby) crowd, being positively supportive, the better. There is no positive effect of booing or targeting individuals. Common sense really. 

 

Good post but way too much common sense to be accepted by some. 

Boooo

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We are all different in the way we express passion so I can't claim any "high ground" moral, or otherwise.

i just know how I react / interact with my team when they are on the field. 

1) I am in the east stand because my friends sit close by and I genuinely prefer a side view to the game. It's is a pity because I would be a singer and a shouter if I was in the North stand but I really love to watch the chess game of match unfold from the view I have. You will never get the shy, quiet, polite, inhibited contingent to sing and support in volume and us closet noise makers only let rip in those periods of play that lift all of us, that said .....

2) I cannot understand when any one has a real dig at a player on their own team. :blink: ... Yep, hold your hands round your head in horror, say "come on Bloggs get in to him" .... But as a supporter where the heck does the "Bloggs you are a lazy Tawt" come from ?????? that isn't support IMO and it isn't constructive. Some of the bile I hear directed at our lads is just pointless and unhelpful. Never understood it  

This post isn't coming out quite right  :unsure:and there is too much "I think" and "I do this that or the other" but jees when a player slips or miscues a pass or gets "done" ... For me it's an "oh F" moment not a "boo the fecker" moment. 

Anyone with half a brain can see how a roaring crowd lifts the team and intimidates the opposition, some of that has to come from on the field but we the fans have the ability to add spice and keep it running ( or kill it dead in its tracks by being dissatisfied, morose or entitled ) 

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Two simple rules for me...

KO = Support the team, whatever.. Even Keogh :ph34r:

Post match / General = Have your bloody say.. If it's crap, it's crap, call it for what it is. Likewise if it's good, it's good.

I have never boo'd a Derby player. Been frustrated with many but never boo'd.

we over complicate this sometimes. I am neither a happy clapper (equally as bad as a wrist slasher), or a wrist slasher. 

We are Derby as the sign says. I expect us to be average most of the time.

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31 minutes ago, jono said:

We are all different in the way we express passion so I can't claim any "high ground" moral, or otherwise.

i just know how I react / interact with my team when they are on the field. 

1) I am in the east stand because my friends sit close by and I genuinely prefer a side view to the game. It's is a pity because I would be a singer and a shouter if I was in the North stand but I really love to watch the chess game of match unfold from the view I have. You will never get the shy, quiet, polite, inhibited contingent to sing and support in volume and us closet noise makers only let rip in those periods of play that lift all of us, that said .....

2) I cannot understand when any one has a real dig at a player on their own team. :blink: ... Yep, hold your hands round your head in horror, say "come on Bloggs get in to him" .... But as a supporter where the heck does the "Bloggs you are a lazy Tawt" come from ?????? that isn't support IMO and it isn't constructive. Some of the bile I hear directed at our lads is just pointless and unhelpful. Never understood it  

This post isn't coming out quite right  :unsure:and there is too much "I think" and "I do this that or the other" but jees when a player slips or miscues a pass or gets "done" ... For me it's an "oh F" moment not a "boo the fecker" moment. 

Anyone with half a brain can see how a roaring crowd lifts the team and intimidates the opposition, some of that has to come from on the field but we the fans have the ability to add spice and keep it running ( or kill it dead in its tracks by being dissatisfied, morose or entitled ) 

I can personally attest that a roaring Jono lifts the team by 1.7%

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14 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Two simple rules for me...

KO = Support the team, whatever.. Even Keogh :ph34r:

Post match / General = Have your bloody say.. If it's crap, it's crap, call it for what it is. Likewise if it's good, it's good.

I have never boo'd a Derby player. Been frustrated with many but never boo'd.

we over complicate this sometimes. I am neither a happy clapper (equally as bad as a wrist slasher), or a wrist slasher. 

We are Derby as the sign says. I expect us to be average most of the time.

You tried to slash my wrist at west brom bloody maniac ! 

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Wiki has a very comprehensive background and history to this fascinating area of psychology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_facilitation

30 minutes ago, jono said:

We are all different in the way we express passion so I can't claim any "high ground" moral, or otherwise.

i just know how I react / interact with my team when they are on the field. 

1) I am in the east stand because my friends sit close by and I genuinely prefer a side view to the game. It's is a pity because I would be a singer and a shouter if I was in the North stand but I really love to watch the chess game of match unfold from the view I have. You will never get the shy, quiet, polite, inhibited contingent to sing and support in volume and us closet noise makers only let rip in those periods of play that lift all of us, that said .....

2) I cannot understand when any one has a real dig at a player on their own team. :blink: ... Yep, hold your hands round your head in horror, say "come on Bloggs get in to him" .... But as a supporter where the heck does the "Bloggs you are a lazy Tawt" come from ?????? that isn't support IMO and it isn't constructive. Some of the bile I hear directed at our lads is just pointless and unhelpful. Never understood it  

This post isn't coming out quite right  :unsure:and there is too much "I think" and "I do this that or the other" but jees when a player slips or miscues a pass or gets "done" ... For me it's an "oh F" moment not a "boo the fecker" moment. 

Anyone with half a brain can see how a roaring crowd lifts the team and intimidates the opposition, some of that has to come from on the field but we the fans have the ability to add spice and keep it running ( or kill it dead in its tracks by being dissatisfied, morose or entitled ) 

What's interesting for me is the whole "chicken and egg" issue. Some match days pre-kick off Pride Park is flat and the flatness continues and the match kicks off and becomes flat. There may be brief crescendoes of noise when an incident on the pitch sparks the crowd and then it dies again. Other games, the atmosphere is great pre-match and then this carries on into the game and it seems to stimulate the team (eg Play-off 2nd leg, Brighton at home).

So, when it's flat on the pitch, it's important that the fans find a way to raise the team. The more people try this, the more likely it will succeed. There has been a lot of work by the Club and the Fan Groups to raise the level. The flags are not everybody's cup of tea but they do have an impact. So, the research supports it and people know it...the more fans get behind the team vocally, and positively, the more likely the Team will raise their game. I believe 5000 Rams fans have a duty at Leicester tomorrow night. 

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5 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Two simple rules for me...

KO = Support the team, whatever.. Even Keogh :ph34r:

Post match / General = Have your bloody say.. If it's crap, it's crap, call it for what it is. Likewise if it's good, it's good.

I have never boo'd a Derby player. Been frustrated with many but never boo'd.

we over complicate this sometimes. I am neither a happy clapper (equally as bad as a wrist slasher), or a wrist slasher. 

We are Derby as the sign says. I expect us to be average most of the time.

I wanted to give you like Angry but I  think the distinction between happy clapper and wrist slasher is to coarse. 

Happy clappers are blind and wrist slashers not good to be around. Expectation though is yet another thing.

Expecting us to be "average" ... Pick yourself up man ... The glass is half full, football is something you watch to enjoy !  ...maybe the glass isnt  brimming over ( that's happy clappy) but if you are a fan you mustn't ever ever be half empty. We need you. Look again, get some of those glasses cleaners from Aldi 

 I get disappointed half the time .. But the other half of the time I am bouncing. And the up is worth more than the down. 

We wont be average agains Leicester .. We are going to be great we are going to the next round 

now, there s a 50/50 chance I am wrong about this but .. While we wait for the game you can have all that pleasure and anticipation of the stunning performance we are going to put in. It's worth it just for that !

 If I am wrong ? Well 2 or 3 days of a bit of a gloom is about as bad as it gets and then you start on the happy pills for the next one ...it isn't a 50/50 swap because the gloom is short lived, you just blank it out. The highs woo hoo .. You get all the exciting build up and then the win .. Is a double dose that more than outweighs a bad result and the aftermath. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Wiki has a very comprehensive background and history to this fascinating area of psychology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_facilitation

What's interesting for me is the whole "chicken and egg" issue. Some match days pre-kick off Pride Park is flat and the flatness continues and the match kicks off and becomes flat. There may be brief crescendoes of noise when an incident on the pitch sparks the crowd and then it dies again. Other games, the atmosphere is great pre-match and then this carries on into the game and it seems to stimulate the team (eg Play-off 2nd leg, Brighton at home).

So, when it's flat on the pitch, it's important that the fans find a way to raise the team. The more people try this, the more likely it will succeed. There has been a lot of work by the Club and the Fan Groups to raise the level. The flags are not everybody's cup of tea but they do have an impact. So, the research supports it and people know it...the more fans get behind the team vocally, and positively, the more likely the Team will raise their game. I believe 5000 Rams fans have a duty at Leicester tomorrow night. 

As long as no one say "Kiss me Vardy" :p

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I feel Derby are a reactive crowd rather than proactive one, most of the time ( at home more so). If we are doing well, we are load. But when things are not so good, we can be very quiet. I would love the next home game to be very loud throughout, like Ella I feel this will rub off. Moaning and booing will never help. It's just not the effect on the players, there is genuine animosity within the crowd between those who want to moan and those of us who want them to shut up. 

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If creating a nice environment in which the players can blossom is so important, maybe we could try serenading the referee for the 1st five minutes of every game?

What ref wouldn't melt to a well chosen ditty, while our players hack lumps outta the opposition with impunity?

It can be hard to lift 11 individuals, but one man sounds much more feasible.

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1 minute ago, reveldevil said:

If creating a nice environment in which the players can blossom is so important, maybe we could try serenading the referee for the 1st five minutes of every game?

What ref wouldn't melt to a well chosen ditty, while our players hack lumps outta the opposition with impunity?

It can be hard to lift 11 individuals, but one man sounds much more feasible.

You may have something there! Whoever heard of home fans cheering the ref?! 137822.jpg

One Rob-ert Mad-eley...there's only one Robert-MAD-eley...:mellow:

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11 minutes ago, jono said:

I wanted to give you like Angry but I  think the distinction between happy clapper and wrist slasher is to coarse. 

Happy clappers are blind and wrist slashers not good to be around. Expectation though is yet another thing.

Expecting us to be "average" ... Pick yourself up man ... The glass is half full, football is something you watch to enjoy !  ...maybe the glass isnt  brimming over ( that's happy clappy) but if you are a fan you mustn't ever ever be half empty. We need you. Look again, get some of those glasses cleaners from Aldi 

 I get disappointed half the time .. But the other half of the time I am bouncing. And the up is worth more than the down. 

We wont be average agains Leicester .. We are going to be great we are going to the next round 

now, there s a 50/50 chance I am wrong about this but .. While we wait for the game you can have all that pleasure and anticipation of the stunning performance we are going to put in. It's worth it just for that !

 If I am wrong ? Well 2 or 3 days of a bit of a gloom is about as bad as it gets and then you start on the happy pills for the next one ...it isn't a 50/50 swap because the gloom is short lived, you just blank it out. The highs woo hoo .. You get all the exciting build up and then the win .. Is a double dose that more than outweighs a bad result and the aftermath. 

 

 

Happy clappers and wrist slashers are opposite ends of the same circle. Derbys history suggests we are average most of the time.. I just enjoy the good times when they come but I have no expectation of us being great week in week out. I didn't say I didn't enjoy it.. I would not travel the length and breadth of this great country if I did not enjoy it.

Equally I don't stick my head in the sand and blank out the bleedin obvious.

Go on gissa like :ph34r:

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Just now, Ellafella said:

You may have something there! Whoever heard of home fans cheering the ref?! 137822.jpg

One Rob-ert Mad-eley...there's only one Robert-MAD-eley...:mellow:

There's an exception to every rule, and you've found it!

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This is so funny. All our different phsycologies 

in real none football life I am so cautious and while not completely pessimistic I prepare for the worst.

in case of a puncture, my car the manufacturers jack and wheel brace, but "just in case" there is a tube to put over the wheel brace in case there isn't enough leverage with a sticky bolt. I also have a wedge to stick under a wheel to prevent it rolling in case the hand brake is iffy and in case it's peeing it down there is a can of tyre weld get you home stuff. And a torch and sundry bits of wire and tools. All of which with a modern car are not really relevant and I haven't had a flat for 5 years. I've got the RAC card in my wallet and a tow rope and jump leads because "you never know" My car is well maintained and in mid life. In short it's cautious overkill 

in football terms ... ME ? Caution to winds .. It will work out ok .. Positive attitude, attack attack attack, flair, gung Ho :unsure:

 

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