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Summer 2017


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Expected outs:

Incey - bigger pond with a £15M price tag on his head. Not my choice but the player will push for a move and deservedly so based on this seasons efforts.

Russell.

Christie - no loss imo.

Vydra - just doesnt fit in.

Shackell - will be sick of playing second fiddle and join the likes of Barnsley or Wolves.

Weimann leave on full-time transfer to Wolves.

Will pull on circa £25M. 15 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 800K + 1.

Incomings:

Return of a fully fit GT and Chris Martin.

A wide left of some pedigree. Anya/ Camara to finally come good and on the right wing.

A central midfielder of some power, pace and ability to play alongside Will.

Rawson to finally step up to be a player and CD back up.

Blackman to also step up as good backup.

That means we would have a healthy transfer pot to buy 2 quality players. May even be a case getting in an additional striker as Benty isnt getting any younger. In which case 10M could get u a decent player.

Say 8M (CM) + 8M (AWL) + 10M (SR).

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My concern is just as we look to finally get  a team that SM desires Will and possibly Ince will leave. Whilst the money would be good I think we've seen how much Hendrick is missed, Butterfield just isn't as effective.

Christie I disagree about, he is still a good squad player even if Baird is replaced.

Assuming a midfielder is targeted in the Lansbury mould, I would expect him to also sign a Sako type winger too.

 

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Ince and Hughes know when they are genuinely wanted and they are here and they play if available if we were under the management of Pearson they would have left by the end of the transfer window in the summer of 2017 if not before 

just a personal feeling but the ones to go in the summer may well be bent wieman and Baird although Baird has made a case for an extension but he obviously wants to play.

main concern is getting the right people in and by that I mean a central midfielder who is creative and attacks, a right wing back and another different wide man. If that all happens then we will start looking at moving on some of the highly paid non productive types and that bracket includes your Blackman and possibly Vydra types

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I expect Mac to move out some of the deadwood, creating circa £10m in fees (Shackell, Weimann, Blackman, Camara or Russell or Anya, Butterfield) and then spend around £15 to £20m.

Martin, Thorne and Forsyth will feel like new transfers.

We can improve in RB, attacking CM, Attacking LW.

Hope we buy quality over quantity.

 

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I wonder what the De Saart out come will be. ? Will he turn in some more WBA quality performances and become a target for us ? 

For me the top priority has to be finding the right man in midfield. It's no use dreaming of the perfect Prem quality striker. We have good strikers, not great ones, but they can score if we give them enough ammunition ... That has to come from midfield.

we have capable wide players in Anya, Camara, JR. We some some youth team players who can step up I am sure. 

We lack a real midfield star with the right attributes to go with Will.  There is something good about each of  Johnson, Butterfield and Bryson but we don't have a midfielder except for Will who has multiple skills for different games. We need one. Do that and the others will fall in to place ( IMO ;) course )

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Out:

Russell, Weimann, Blackman, Bent, Roos, Baird, Vydra.

In:

Jota, Judge - both freebies

Martin - loan return 

Fosu Mensha - Loan cover

Pattenson - He's injured but wouldn't be surprised if we snapped him up down the line.

Idiakez style play maker, however  unlikely with Evans and Mo friggin  Camara doing the scouting. 

A quality loan striker ie Tammy Abraham

 

 

 

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Depending on outgoings, I wouldn't do to.much business on the provision that CM and GT are back and fit and good to go.


If/when outgoings happen, replace on an improve the balance and build the hunger basis.

The only outgoings I'd fear we couldn't get a player better or just better suited to us are Ince and Hughes. They at least would bring big money.

 

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9 hours ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

Expected outs:

Incey - bigger pond with a £15M price tag on his head. Not my choice but the player will push for a move and deservedly so based on this seasons efforts.

Russell.

Christie - no loss imo.

Vydra - just doesnt fit in.

Shackell - will be sick of playing second fiddle and join the likes of Barnsley or Wolves.

Weimann leave on full-time transfer to Wolves.

Will pull on circa £25M. 15 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 800K + 1.

Incomings:

Return of a fully fit GT and Chris Martin.

A wide left of some pedigree. Anya/ Camara to finally come good and on the right wing.

A central midfielder of some power, pace and ability to play alongside Will.

Rawson to finally step up to be a player and CD back up.

Blackman to also step up as good backup.

That means we would have a healthy transfer pot to buy 2 quality players. May even be a case getting in an additional striker as Benty isnt getting any younger. In which case 10M could get u a decent player.

Say 8M (CM) + 8M (AWL) + 10M (SR).

Agrree. Just two real quality signings needed. Sick of us signing quantity over quality 

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If you look back at Steve McClaren past transfer dealings as a guide as to what he may or may not do in the future. He a fairly cautious character. He will not make change's for change's sake. That to together the loyalty he has to certain members of his squad points to 'minimal' squad changes in the summer. It's possibly going to be evolution not revolution.

That's not to say he has not got his list of targets but be prepared to see most of the same faces barring a few who having come to the end of their contracts being let go or a few who weren't his buy's. My believe is there will be maximum of 3 'first' team regular signings (maybe a mixture of loans and buy's) together with Martin coming back. In addition we may take a punt on 1 or 2 promising 'lower' youngsters. The total 1st squad number 'size' should stay the same.

We are all second guessing. Let's see what un-folds and its still be decided which division we will playing in. Which will be 'major' factor in the club's decision making.

One way or another a very interesting summer.

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I think what's important to acknowledge before we discuss which players should or shouldn't be moved, is what are we trying to build towards ? and what is needed in each player role in the team to make that work ?

I'm going to make the assumption that McClaren is going to build towards something akin to the team he had previously i.e. a team built around controlling the game that opens teams up through quick exchanges of passing when in possession and a team that looks to aggressively win the ball high up the pitch when out of possession. 

Disclaimer: I'm basing the following views on what we have seen of players so far and full well acknowledge that some could 'come good' eventually given game time.

With that said I'd like to go through each position, outline what I feel is required in the role and who in the squad does or doesn't fit the bill.

GK

The goalkeeper in our system needs to be comfortable going for large stretches in the game without any action, it's important that their 'short' distribution (i.e. rolling, throwing, short kicks and simple short passes) is quick and accurate so we can quickly build from the back. They also should be comfortable receiving the ball at their feet so is an option to go back to for the defence. Ideally they'd be quick off their line in order to compensate for that we are likely to be playing a high line in defence.

To be honest I think GK is the least of our worries with Carson being ever dependable this season and we have bigger issues to look at before thinking of improving here.

Fullbacks

We need energetic full backs who can quickly get up and down the line. This is so that we have width in attack and it allows the wide forwards to drift in field where they can do more damage to opposition and it means the full backs can quickly get back into position when we lose possession. You also want them to be relatively technically astute to help contribute to our general passing play.

On the left side, I'd say we are pretty well covered in this regard what with Forsyth, Olsson and Lowe all pretty much fitting  the bill. Personally I'd look to keep all three, what with Forsyth recovering from a long term injury and Olsson and Lowe seemingly prone to picking up niggles.

On the right side, Baird has done a good job since coming in the side but personally I think we need somebody who can providing more energy getting up and down the line (obviously not Baird's fault) plus at 35 we can't realistically expect to get much more football out of him, so I'd probably let him go at the end of the season. Christie on his day really is some player, and his direct running terrifies defences. However he can be inconsistent, can make wrong decisions about when to carry the ball and when to pass and there are question marks over whether he is the best fit to play behind Ince. In my opinion I'd try to look for a player who is essentially a younger Baird, somebody who has Baird's calmness in and out of possession but has the energy levels to get up and down the line. With Christie becoming cover.

Centre backs

We look like we will building from the back quite a lot and therefore it's paramount that both centrebacks are comfortable in position and can quickly move the ball on. It'd also be useful if they have a yard of pace because we will be looking to play a high line.

Keogh is one of the most important players in the squad right now as the only true ball-playing centre back and the more we shift back to looking to control games, the more important Keogh will be what with his distribution and his ability to carry the ball from defence. Pearce has formed a very good partnership with Keogh, is proving ever dependable in this position, his leadership really adds to our back line and he tends to move the ball well enough. If (and this is a big expensive if) we can find somebody similar to Pearce who is more comfortable on the ball and is perhaps a tad quicker, it could be worthwhile going for them. Shackell whilst a good defender, doesn't fit our style of play when in possession and should be moved on in the summer. I haven't seen much of Rawson to make a fair appraisal of him, so will leave that to others. If we can't find a player better than Pearce (and again it's highly likely we don't find one at this level) then I'd look to bring in a young technically astute centre back who we can develop and will provide cover.

CDM

His primary role is to shield the back 4, recycle possession and retain possession. As such he needs to be positionally disciplined as to not get drawn into the play but be able to anticipate when to make a tackle. Needs to be comfortable in possession and be able to move the ball quickly and accurately because he will very frequently receive the ball of the back 4 and off attacking players when attacks fizzle out. It's important that he can retain possession effectivley because he will the base from which most of our attacking play starts. Ideally he'd possess great vision and the ability to pick a defense splitting pass ala Thorne but this is secondary to who his primary role.

A lot depends on whether Thorne comes back the same player as before and how quickly he gets up to speed again. If he's fit and firing he is the absolute ideal player for the position. Personally, I feel Johnson (whilst has done a good job over the past few months) lacks the technical ability required to play the role with how we ultimately want to play and simply doesn't retain the ball well enough and I'd probably let him go if a decent offer came in for him. Hanson I feel lacks the tactical discipline for the role and lacks calmness in possession to execute the role well and the summer could be time to move him on, however there's a chance he could develop whilst at Wigan. If Thorne is fit and firing, I think we would be fine going forward with him as first choice with Johnson/Hanson. If he isn't (it might still be worthwhile doing this anyway and letting Johnson go) then it's paramount that we bring in a player who is adept at the role. 

CM

The two midfielders have two overlapping but different roles. One will primarily be the link-up player/playmaker, looking to pick up space and keep the attacking momentum going through probing passes. The other will primarily be the attacking midfielder looking to burst with or without the ball beyond the defensive line in order to provide penetration and extra goal threat. Both need to be technically good, clever, very comfortable with the ball at their, can pick a pass, have energy to buzz around exploiting space and be able to aggressively press when out of possession.

I feel well covered for the playmaker role, with this being Hughes' forte and Butterfield being more than good enough cover/competition (despite being recently maligned). Our hand might be forced if Hughes decides to move onto better things and we will then have to reassess.

For the attacking midfielder, I think this a place we could really look to improve as we only have Bryson who can really fulfill this role well and given his age and that he seemingly keeps picking up knocks we should certainly be looking to bringing in a new face in this area.

Wide Forwards

Need to be comfortable drifting inside to support the centre forward, need the pace to burst into pockets of space, need to be comfortable in possession and the dribbling ability to beat a man to create attacking opportunity. Also need to be decent finishers to chip in with goals and have the energy levels to get back and support the defence. Better if they are 'wrong-footed' to more readily allow them to drift inside.

Ince's position on the right is completely nailed on and he is ideal for the position. Russell has historically played his best football on the right and so I would certainly keep him as cover behind Ince for the right, whilst he has the ability to play on the left. The left is where we have bigger problems as for me we have no player currently in the squad who is a great fit for the role. This is one area that if we are going to spend money on should be here because it would give us an extra dimension going forwards. I'd keep Anya for his versatility and in particularly his ability to cover the left side. I'm still firmly on the fence regarding Camara, who has shown ability in flashes but I'm far from convinced. After that I'd be looking to move on Wiemann and Blackmen, on as I just don't they provide enough for the squad and room needs to be made for incomings.

Centre Forward

The absolutely key and number one requirement in this role is link-up play ability because this what allows your midfield to advance and start to take control of the play in the opposition half. Without a striker who can link to the midfield you will struggle to take control of the game and impress your playstyle on your opponent. After that the usually things required of a striker apply such as being a good finisher. It'd also be useful if they have the energy levels to pressure the backline

What with Martin's return we will be more than well equipped in the area, with Martin possessing the best link-up ability in the league. Hopefully Nugent will provide ample cover/competition for Martin whilst being an option to bring on with Martin when chasing a game. Whilst Bent has been doing an ok job he is far from ideal in the role and Vydra has demonstrated little capability at adapting to it, so I'd look to move both on in the summer. Could be worth bringing in a young striker who fits the profile of the role to look toward the future and provide extra cover.

TLDR;

Outs - Baird, Shackell, Johnson (if a decent offer comes in), Hanson (depending how he develops at wigan), Blackmen, Wiemann, Bent and Vydra. 

Ins - An energetic RB who is comfortable in possession (a 'young Baird'), a young technically good CB, a CDM as cover/competition for Thorne (or first choice if Thorne doesn't come back as good), an attacking CM, a left wide forward, Martin.

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Personally I'd like for some of our not nailed on first choice players to move on. Those players we all argue about who should play. So any two of weimann Camara or Russell. Then bring in a proper quality first choice player for that position. Similarly in midfield, I'd let butters and Hanson go and bring in a quality first choice CM. 

Vydra can also go for me as he just doesn't suit this system. I'm confident that Martin, nugent, Blackman, vernam and zanzala are adequate cover for that one position.

the only other is probably RB, as Baird has shown with a defensive minded RB there Ince can flourish without worrying about tracking back all the time to cover Christie who's often out of position. So:-

.                                         Carson

new RB/Christie.    Keogh.        Pearce.         Fozzy

.                                      Thorne

.                           Hughes.        New CM

.          Ince.                                                New LW

.                                      Martin

 

mitchell, Anya nugent, shackell, Lowe 2 of Russell/weimann/Camara 

it would be good to see some of the youngsters breaking through and some new young players brought in to develop

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3 hours ago, Seth's left foot said:

Russell being called deadwood :blink:

game of opinions I suppose.

Dead wood according to some 3 months ago - Pearce, Baird, Bent, Johnson, Ince.

And people moan when I describe some of our fans as being a few pennies short of a shilling.

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52 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I think what's important to acknowledge before we discuss which players should or shouldn't be moved, is what are we trying to build towards ? and what is needed in each player role in the team to make that work ?

I'm going to make the assumption that McClaren is going to build towards something akin to the team he had previously i.e. a team built around controlling the game that opens teams up through quick exchanges of passing when in possession and a team that looks to aggressively win the ball high up the pitch when out of possession. 

Disclaimer: I'm basing the following views on what we have seen of players so far and full well acknowledge that some could 'come good' eventually given game time.

With that said I'd like to go through each position, outline what I feel is required in the role and who in the squad does or doesn't fit the bill.

GK

The goalkeeper in our system needs to be comfortable going for large stretches in the game without any action, it's important that their 'short' distribution (i.e. rolling, throwing, short kicks and simple short passes) is quick and accurate so we can quickly build from the back. They also should be comfortable receiving the ball at their feet so is an option to go back to for the defence. Ideally they'd be quick off their line in order to compensate for that we are likely to be playing a high line in defence.

To be honest I think GK is the least of our worries with Carson being ever dependable this season and we have bigger issues to look at before thinking of improving here.

Fullbacks

We need energetic full backs who can quickly get up and down the line. This is so that we have width in attack and it allows the wide forwards to drift in field where they can do more damage to opposition and it means the full backs can quickly get back into position when we lose possession. You also want them to be relatively technically astute to help contribute to our general passing play.

On the left side, I'd say we are pretty well covered in this regard what with Forsyth, Olsson and Lowe all pretty much fitting  the bill. Personally I'd look to keep all three, what with Forsyth recovering from a long term injury and Olsson and Lowe seemingly prone to picking up niggles.

On the right side, Baird has done a good job since coming in the side but personally I think we need somebody who can providing more energy getting up and down the line (obviously not Baird's fault) plus at 35 we can't realistically expect to get much more football out of him, so I'd probably let him go at the end of the season. Christie on his day really is some player, and his direct running terrifies defences. However he can be inconsistent, can make wrong decisions about when to carry the ball and when to pass and there are question marks over whether he is the best fit to play behind Ince. In my opinion I'd try to look for a player who is essentially a younger Baird, somebody who has Baird's calmness in and out of possession but has the energy levels to get up and down the line. With Christie becoming cover.

Centre backs

We look like we will building from the back quite a lot and therefore it's paramount that both centrebacks are comfortable in position and can quickly move the ball on. It'd also be useful if they have a yard of pace because we will be looking to play a high line.

Keogh is one of the most important players in the squad right now as the only true ball-playing centre back and the more we shift back to looking to control games, the more important Keogh will be what with his distribution and his ability to carry the ball from defence. Pearce has formed a very good partnership with Keogh, is proving ever dependable in this position, his leadership really adds to our back line and he tends to move the ball well enough. If (and this is a big expensive if) we can find somebody similar to Pearce who is more comfortable on the ball and is perhaps a tad quicker, it could be worthwhile going for them. Shackell whilst a good defender, doesn't fit our style of play when in possession and should be moved on in the summer. I haven't seen much of Rawson to make a fair appraisal of him, so will leave that to others. If we can't find a player better than Pearce (and again it's highly likely we don't find one at this level) then I'd look to bring in a young technically astute centre back who we can develop and will provide cover.

CDM

His primary role is to shield the back 4, recycle possession and retain possession. As such he needs to be positionally disciplined as to not get drawn into the play but be able to anticipate when to make a tackle. Needs to be comfortable in possession and be able to move the ball quickly and accurately because he will very frequently receive the ball of the back 4 and off attacking players when attacks fizzle out. It's important that he can retain possession effectivley because he will the base from which most of our attacking play starts. Ideally he'd possess great vision and the ability to pick a defense splitting pass ala Thorne but this is secondary to who his primary role.

A lot depends on whether Thorne comes back the same player as before and how quickly he gets up to speed again. If he's fit and firing he is the absolute ideal player for the position. Personally, I feel Johnson (whilst has done a good job over the past few months) lacks the technical ability required to play the role with how we ultimately want to play and simply doesn't retain the ball well enough and I'd probably let him go if a decent offer came in for him. Hanson I feel lacks the tactical discipline for the role and lacks calmness in possession to execute the role well and the summer could be time to move him on, however there's a chance he could develop whilst at Wigan. If Thorne is fit and firing, I think we would be fine going forward with him as first choice with Johnson/Hanson. If he isn't (it might still be worthwhile doing this anyway and letting Johnson go) then it's paramount that we bring in a player who is adept at the role. 

CM

The two midfielders have two overlapping but different roles. One will primarily be the link-up player/playmaker, looking to pick up space and keep the attacking momentum going through probing passes. The other will primarily be the attacking midfielder looking to burst with or without the ball beyond the defensive line in order to provide penetration and extra goal threat. Both need to be technically good, clever, very comfortable with the ball at their, can pick a pass, have energy to buzz around exploiting space and be able to aggressively press when out of possession.

I feel well covered for the playmaker role, with this being Hughes' forte and Butterfield being more than good enough cover/competition (despite being recently maligned). Our hand might be forced if Hughes decides to move onto better things and we will then have to reassess.

For the attacking midfielder, I think this a place we could really look to improve as we only have Bryson who can really fulfill this role well and given his age and that he seemingly keeps picking up knocks we should certainly be looking to bringing in a new face in this area.

Wide Forwards

Need to be comfortable drifting inside to support the centre forward, need the pace to burst into pockets of space, need to be comfortable in possession and the dribbling ability to beat a man to create attacking opportunity. Also need to be decent finishers to chip in with goals and have the energy levels to get back and support the defence. Better if they are 'wrong-footed' to more readily allow them to drift inside.

Ince's position on the right is completely nailed on and he is ideal for the position. Russell has historically played his best football on the right and so I would certainly keep him as cover behind Ince for the right, whilst he has the ability to play on the left. The left is where we have bigger problems as for me we have no player currently in the squad who is a great fit for the role. This is one area that if we are going to spend money on should be here because it would give us an extra dimension going forwards. I'd keep Anya for his versatility and in particularly his ability to cover the left side. I'm still firmly on the fence regarding Camara, who has shown ability in flashes but I'm far from convinced. After that I'd be looking to move on Wiemann and Blackmen, on as I just don't they provide enough for the squad and room needs to be made for incomings.

Centre Forward

The absolutely key and number one requirement in this role is link-up play ability because this what allows your midfield to advance and start to take control of the play in the opposition half. Without a striker who can link to the midfield you will struggle to take control of the game and impress your playstyle on your opponent. After that the usually things required of a striker apply such as being a good finisher. It'd also be useful if they have the energy levels to pressure the backline

What with Martin's return we will be more than well equipped in the area, with Martin possessing the best link-up ability in the league. Hopefully Nugent will provide ample cover/competition for Martin whilst being an option to bring on with Martin when chasing a game. Whilst Bent has been doing an ok job he is far from ideal in the role and Vydra has demonstrated little capability at adapting to it, so I'd look to move both on in the summer. Could be worth bringing in a young striker who fits the profile of the role to look toward the future and provide extra cover.

TLDR;

Outs - Baird, Shackell, Johnson (if a decent offer comes in), Hanson (depending how he develops at wigan), Blackmen, Wiemann, Bent and Vydra. 

Ins - An energetic RB who is comfortable in possession (a 'young Baird'), a young technically good CB, a CDM as cover/competition for Thorne (or first choice if Thorne doesn't come back as good), an attacking CM, a left wide forward, Martin.

I am with you on most of that but the main problem moving on the likes of Blackman Vydra shackell and Johnson is the huge size of their wages and contracts with mainly only premiership or relegated prem teams being able to afford them.

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