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Was the diamond formation given much of an opportunity?


Sexydadbod
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I personally don't think it was and I believe it's worth having a look at again, maybe as a plan B formation. We get our width from our full backs anyway. This formation allows us to have 2 strikers on the field, whilst maintaining the balance of having 3 centre mids behind them to control the game. I re-call us using it against Villarreal in pre season and we got a very impressive 1-1 draw in that game. We went into the Bolton game last season with the diamond but Bryson's and Hughes' respective injuries meant that we had to change a formation, never to be seen again....... However, you could argue that the game against Hull away in the play off second leg was almost a diamond as Weimann and Martin played very close to each other.  I think this formation is very underrated and would solve the lack of 'quality' wingers situation. The formation also beats a high energy game like Leeds executed on Friday because they know the 2 strikers would thrive off any counter attacks and would think twice before pressing higher up the field.

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2 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Two,people thought so..

Well this was a genuine question. Not sure how asking whether a particular formation was given an opportunity warrants a response like that when our manager last season thought it was our best formation going into the season ?

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I'll give a sensible answer, no it wasn't given much of a chance, but then again a formation which sees Will doing doggies, to paraphrase Ramage, on the the left hand side of midfield wasn't ever going to see the best of our best player.

What formation would you go with that would see Will at his most effective?

He's by far and away our best player, and you watch a decent amount of different league's and styles, what formation would you recommend that gets the best out of Hughes, if not the current one?

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1 minute ago, reveldevil said:

I'll give a sensible answer, no it wasn't given much of a chance, but then again a formation which sees Will doing doggies, to paraphrase Ramage, on the the left hand side of midfield wasn't ever going to see the best of our best player.

What formation would you go with that would see Will at his most effective?

He's by far and away our best player, and you watch a decent amount of different league's and styles, what formation would you recommend that gets the best out of Hughes, if not the current one?

Boooooooo

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2 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

I'll give a sensible answer, no it wasn't given much of a chance, but then again a formation which sees Will doing doggies, to paraphrase Ramage, on the the left hand side of midfield wasn't ever going to see the best of our best player.

What formation would you go with that would see Will at his most effective?

He's by far and away our best player, and you watch a decent amount of different league's and styles, what formation would you recommend that gets the best out of Hughes, if not the current one?

Maybe so but to me he looked pretty comfortable there as he was able to have a lot more time on the ball, remember that cracker he scored in Holland? I believe he played in that position you're alluding to. I think Clement planned on letting Forsyth doing the 'donkey work' for Hughes because of his athleticism to get up and down the pitch,whilst letting Hughes focus on the creative element.

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With our strongest 11 available @McLovin then yes it should definitely be considered  

                           Carson 

            Keogh                   Pearce 

Christie            Thorne                  Forsyth 

          Hughes                johnson 

                        Ince 

             Martin        Vydra    

Looks OK to me ?

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The best stuff Ince has ever played for anyone came as a winger. 

I'm not saying you're one of them but some seem to think the more strikers you play then the more chance of scoring you have. Seen a lot of requests to play 2 up front. Or that Vydra needs to play off somebody. Let's say you put Vydra and Bent together. Neither of them come deep often enough as it is so with them both playing as a pair we'd end up with 8 men and a goalkeeper doing all the building trying to service them.

As you said yourself. In the second leg at Hull, Weimann got close to Martin. This was in 433. And the key thing was Martin. He was pulling everyone in. There is no Martin now. 

You watch Russell and Ince. They do go narrow for periods and entire games. And they do hug the touchline at other times. But still Vydra (and less so Bent) don't have enough about them to either work in close quarters often enough. 

Watch the Wigan game. OK we didn't play well but watch how narrow Russell and Ince went to allow Anya and Baird space to attack. 

Then the Leeds game Camara/Vydra and Ince stayed wide to offer an outlet. The fullbacks couldn't get forward so if Ince had gone narrow then we'd never have had a shot!! 

The way to beat Leeds high pressing would have been for Johnson and Bryson to have grown a pair. Neither had any bravery, imagination or aggression. On the ball they just went with what was easiest. Bryson back the way he was facing and Johnson pretty much the same but really slowly

Leeds had a man on De Sart. If Bryson and Johnson had gone forwards and turned Leeds around then De Sart would have been freed up. 

But that's not to say the game was lost by the negativity of the midfield 2.

Shackell's passing is horrific. It's the slowest most obvious rubbish you can see. When he takes so long and telegraphs every pass then Bryson and Johnson and Camara or going to be pressed instantly on receiving the ball. 

Leeds was just a bad combination. We caused many of our own problems. 

Sometimes we draw/lose to teams who park the bus and people say we have no plan b to break them down. Then we lose to teams that press high and people say we have no plan b to play through them

We've beat high pressing teams numerous times. And we've beat park the bus types. 

The truth is that sometimes the other team is just better on the day. Sometimes we don't do the basics right and people don't do their jobs well enough. 

I don't like the idea of changing systems etc to suit players that have done either nothing or very little for us. We should be accommodating those who flourish for us. 

Johnson shines as a DM. Hughes as a guy who is neither relied to defend or attack but just to support everyone. Ince as a winger. Russell as a winger. Bryson as far forward as possible where his limited passing, closing down, pretty good shooting actually turns into pressure.

 

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2 minutes ago, hiltonram said:

Id like to see us go with a 5-3-2 formation, with wing backs using George Thorne in front of the back two when fit.

I reckon it would work better than the 4-3-3 system. Should certainly be considered as a plan b in games where we are not getting anywhere with the usual.

Ooh ooh look at my team further up then. Right up your street . 

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5 minutes ago, hiltonram said:

Id like to see us go with a 5-3-2 formation, with wing backs using George Thorne in front of the back two when fit.

I reckon it would work better than the 4-3-3 system. Should certainly be considered as a plan b in games where we are not getting anywhere with the usual.

Do you mean something like this:

                             Carson

             Keogh      Pearce       Forsyth 

                           Thorne

Christie                                             Lowe

                     Bryson      Hughes 

 

                                 Ince

 

                              Forward

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