G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, DerbyRam! said: Vydra - The new scapegoat? Why didn't everyone's favourite Bent and Ince take the game by the "scruff of the neck" and see us through? Certainly not a scapegoat, he was one of 8 or 9 players that came out of Friday's game with no credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I'm starting to really hate the word "scapegoat", because it's becoming so misused on this forum. We conceded before he was even on the pitch, hardly as if anyone could scapegoat him. Nobody says it's entirely his fault and if we got rid of him our problems would be over. Keogh has been a scapegoat, people HAVE implied our problems would be over if he was out of the team. Grant used to be scapegoated a lot when he was here. More recently Butterfield has been called "the weak link" by some. How anyone can be accused of "scapegoating" Vydra or Blackman, I'll never know. They never play! Some of you ought to refresh your memories on what "scapegoat" actually means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Le Mesmer Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I don't think Vydra has even amassed enough pitch time in a Derby shirt to cover 2 football matches yet has scored just 2 league goals less (not inc. Pens) than Bent who has started nearly every game. There was a recent thread on perspective. I think that should apply here too. Vydra isn't an impact sub IMO. Give him some consistent starts and see what we've got or sell him. He might still be a very good player but we'll never know if we neither give him a fair crack of the whip or enough time in the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 vydras short passing, link up play has always looked pretty good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 18 minutes ago, DerbyRam! said: Vydra - The new scapegoat? Why didn't everyone's favourite Bent and Ince take the game by the "scruff of the neck" and see us through? Ince tried. He was the only forward thinking player until Hughes came on. Most the time he was all alone 50 yards out from goal watching Johnson and Bryson pooh themselves, Camara abandon Hanson, Shackell be the worst passer ever and Leeds just press down on the whole negative bunch. Ince forced the save from Green and set Vydra away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: I don't think Vydra has even amassed enough pitch time in a Derby shirt to cover 2 football matches yet has scored just 2 league goals less (not inc. Pens) than Bent who has started nearly every game. There was a recent thread on perspective. I think that should apply here too. Vydra isn't an impact sub IMO. Give him some consistent starts and see what we've got or sell him. He might still be a very good player but we'll never know if we neither give him a fair crack of the whip or enough time in the side. Vydra has had quite a few starts and plenty of game time to show something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowram Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Vydra shouldn't be the scapegoat but he hardly resembles £8 million well spent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 14 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: I don't think Vydra has even amassed enough pitch time in a Derby shirt to cover 2 football matches yet has scored just 2 league goals less (not inc. Pens) than Bent who has started nearly every game. There was a recent thread on perspective. I think that should apply here too. Vydra isn't an impact sub IMO. Give him some consistent starts and see what we've got or sell him. He might still be a very good player but we'll never know if we neither give him a fair crack of the whip or enough time in the side. 12 starts, 10 sub appearances. 1163 minutes on the pitch with 2 goals and no assists. Nearly 13 full games worth of minutes on the pitch and we've only played 26 games. So he's had roughly half of the minutes on the pitch available, or an entire quarter of a season if you want to look at it that way. 1 goal per 581.5 minutes or a goal every 6.46 games when you add up the minutes. 1 goal was an impressive one away at Reading, a decent side, but the other was against Blackburn, when we lost 2-1. In both games, he contributed absolutely nothing besides the goals. Never had a good game in a Derby shirt. Never scored for McClaren. Never looked like he belongs. I don't like to be over-critical of players but he's shown zero promise for all the time he's had. He's had 7 full 90s and 3 games when he's gone off with less than 15 to go so he might as well have played the full 90. He started 8 in a row at one point. I'm not giving up on him but I simply don't buy it that he hasn't had a fair crack at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, Harrowram said: Vydra shouldn't be the scapegoat but he hardly resembles £8 million well spent! I refer you to my post above. He's no scapegoat. That word does not mean what you think it means. Stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, Tombo said: 12 starts, 10 sub appearances. 1163 minutes on the pitch with 2 goals and no assists. Nearly 13 full games worth of minutes on the pitch and we've only played 26 games. So he's had roughly half of the minutes on the pitch available, or an entire quarter of a season if you want to look at it that way. 1 goal per 581.5 minutes or a goal every 6.46 games when you add up the minutes. 1 goal was an impressive one away at Reading, a decent side, but the other was against Blackburn, when we lost 2-1. In both games, he contributed absolutely nothing besides the goals. Never had a good game in a Derby shirt. Never scored for McClaren. Never looked like he belongs. I don't like to be over-critical of players but he's shown zero promise for all the time he's had. He's had 7 full 90s and 3 games when he's gone off with less than 15 to go so he might as well have played the full 90. He started 8 in a row at one point. I'm not giving up on him but I simply don't buy it that he hasn't had a fair crack at it. The difficulty is that Vydra's strength is running off a big, hold-the-ball-up centre forward, but he's been given to do is play out wide, or playing the lone striker role. He is neither of those, so for all the so-called minutes of playing time he has had, it is been largely in bits and bobs in the wrong positions. The guy needs to be given a fair crack, which is what a number of us have said. The same is true of Camara. Until the West Brom game, he had only been used sparingly. He played well against West Brom, and is one of the few players who can put a decent cross in. He didn't do well against Leeds because they had done their homework. Because he started the match, Leeds had set up to counter his threat by having three players on him whenever he got the ball. The criticism of him was that he kept trying to take too many players on, or kept running into defenders and losing the ball. But you will take too many on, or run into defenders when there are always three of them. Maybe if he was given the ball quickly out of defence there might be only one or two on him. Instead we seem to be committed to the Clementitus disease of taking two and a half weeks to get the ball out of defence, by which time the opposition is back in position, and Camara (and Ince on the other wing) is facing a whole gaggle of defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 18 minutes ago, Tombo said: 12 starts, 10 sub appearances. 1163 minutes on the pitch with 2 goals and no assists. Nearly 13 full games worth of minutes on the pitch and we've only played 26 games. So he's had roughly half of the minutes on the pitch available, or an entire quarter of a season if you want to look at it that way. 1 goal per 581.5 minutes or a goal every 6.46 games when you add up the minutes. 1 goal was an impressive one away at Reading, a decent side, but the other was against Blackburn, when we lost 2-1. In both games, he contributed absolutely nothing besides the goals. Never had a good game in a Derby shirt. Never scored for McClaren. Never looked like he belongs. I don't like to be over-critical of players but he's shown zero promise for all the time he's had. He's had 7 full 90s and 3 games when he's gone off with less than 15 to go so he might as well have played the full 90. He started 8 in a row at one point. I'm not giving up on him but I simply don't buy it that he hasn't had a fair crack at it. How many starts under Mac Tombo? Not arguing just curious as to be fair, nobody was scoring heavily or playing well under Ol' Blockhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Exactly right with the "scapegoat" thing @Tombo. Nobody has said that he's causing us problems. He's not the reason we drew at Fulham, won at Wigan, lost at Leeds. He just does the bare minimum to not be on their side but he adds nothing to us. He's a ghost most the time. The opponents feel the threat of something there but it can't hurt them. We know there's something there but can't see it. Vydra the friendly ghost. Would love him to come good and if Mac keeps giving him chances then that's cool. But we can't say he's doing well when he isn't or start making different formations etc to fit him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Le Mesmer Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Vydra has started 12 league games?! Crikey. Didn't know it was anywhere near that. Apologies for my earlier inaccurate post in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: Vydra has started 12 league games?! Crikey. Didn't know it was anywhere near that. Apologies for my earlier inaccurate post in that case. Don't apologise Tony. It's just a little debate. You can still argue that he needs a run in the side, a proper handful of successive starts under Mac to be a success and nobody could argue. He may need that. He may need a summer to reset. Who knows? Just based on what's gone it's not been very good from a player who has shown promise in his career. 100% Vydra has some ability to perform at this level. He's done it twice. But that's not much use to us sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 30 minutes ago, 86 points said: How many starts under Mac Tombo? Not arguing just curious as to be fair, nobody was scoring heavily or playing well under Ol' Blockhead. 6 starts. 645 minutes, which would be equal to 7 full games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, Tombo said: 6 starts. 645 minutes, which would be equal to 7 full games. Cheers Tombo - more than I'd figured to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, 86 points said: Cheers Tombo - more than I'd figured to be honest. I bet most of us are surprised by these stats Makes vydra seem even worse than I thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I bet most of us are surprised by these stats Makes vydra seem even worse than I thought I'm still hopeful Kash. Pearce and Baird were further left field than Vydra and came good in no uncertain style to prove us wrong. The meter's definitely running but he has time yet to come good. In any case, I'd prefer he be given more time to adjust than simply dumping him now at a loss that would run to millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I don't believe he's shown "zero promise". he can play. He's quick. But he can't lead the attack in a 433, and we don't play two strikers - which may suit him better. Therefore........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 His confidence is shot to pieces. Vydra at his best would have had that Leeds defender flat on his arse before rifling the ball into the roof of the net!!....Game on! I dont know what McC does with him, I think he's better wide but needs a target man up front he can play off. You don't become a bad player overnight, he's still what 24/25? Im convinced theres a gem in there somewhere. There's players i would get rid of before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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