PistoldPete2 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: I've never quite understood the rules about these things. Ball to hand and all that stuff. Reading through the posts it has made me not so certain of my original 'correct decision' verdict. The ball is loose. Both Bent and Green are running towards it. Bent jumps as Green just more or less takes a punt at the ball. Bent is jumping naturally with a slight tendency to turn his back on Green as he doesn't want to get hurt by the ball. None of this is deliberate. He has jumped and IMO there is absolutely no deliberate intent or movement of the arm towards the ball. It's basically just Green leathering the ball at his outstretched arm. Again I'm not sure of the rules. Are these decisions based on what the ref determines as deliberate or can you just literally as an attacker, get inside the penalty area and try and kick the ball as hard as you can towards an opponents arm when the opponent has no idea what's going on and that would be deemed a penalty? The rule is its handball if it's deliberate. yet handball is often awarded even when it plainly isn't deliberate. I think it was the right decision because bent had his hands up. But it was very poor by green , his clearance could have hit bent anywhere and luckily for him it hit his hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Irrespective of whether the goal should have stood, the comments I've read about not deserving anything out of the game anyway are bizarre. Honestly, who cares whether you deserve anything put of a game or not? Did Leicester deserve all the points they got last year? Of course not. There are always games where you get points where you've been battered. That's part of the game. I want us to play better than we did, but wouldn't begrudge or apologise for getting a streaky point or few when you're playing a very good team away from home. FWIW I don't think a ref would have given a penalty for that if a defender was rushing out to block a shot and it was blasted against his hand from about 5 yards. As others have said, he wasn't in an unnatural position for what he was doing, i.e. jumping toward a fast moving object which could have hit him in the face. Having said that, I can see why a ref wouldn't allow a goal because whether deliberate, avoidable or whatever, there would have been a clear advatange gained from something not really in the spirit of the game. Far easier to disallow than face the flack. At the other end, the ref would just go 'ball to hand' and play on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 At the time I thought it was the wrong decision, watching the replays I thought it was harsh. After reading the replies of the people that thought it was, not one has put forward a good enough reason why it was handball. And as for the comments that we didn't deserve anything so it shouldn't of stood, and the comment that they were glad it didn't count? Wtf? Happy we lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Just now, rynny said: At the time I thought it was the wrong decision, watching the replays I thought it was harsh. After reading the replies of the people that thought it was, not one has put forward a good enough reason why it was handball. And as for the comments that we didn't deserve anything so it shouldn't of stood, and the comment that they were glad it didn't count? Wtf? Happy we lost Totally agree. debate about a contentious decision has nowt to do with how we played. Some refs would have given the goal some wouldn't, its a 50/50 for me, and i guess that turns to 60/40 if you're at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, LazloW said: Irrespective of whether the goal should have stood, the comments I've read about not deserving anything out of the game anyway are bizarre. Honestly, who cares whether you deserve anything put of a game or not? Did Leicester deserve all the points they got last year? Of course not. There are always games where you get points where you've been battered. That's part of the game. I want us to play better than we did, but wouldn't begrudge or apologise for getting a streaky point or few when you're playing a very good team away from home. FWIW I don't think a ref would have given a penalty for that if a defender was rushing out to block a shot and it was blasted against his hand from about 5 yards. As others have said, he wasn't in an unnatural position for what he was doing, i.e. jumping toward a fast moving object which could have hit him in the face. Having said that, I can see why a ref wouldn't allow a goal because whether deliberate, avoidable or whatever, there would have been a clear advatange gained from something not really in the spirit of the game. Far easier to disallow than face the flack. At the other end, the ref would just go 'ball to hand' and play on. I think to call such comments as bizarre is a little over the top. Irrelevant yes (same as the debate over whether the goal should have been given or not) but not bizarre. Just people's opinions on what result would have been a fair reflection of the game (possession, chances created, quality etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I think people are pointing out that we deserved nothing, so it does not look like sour grapes and an excuse for why we lost the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozza Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Did Bent protest ? , no goal , no complaints.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I think people are pointing out that we deserved nothing, so it does not look like sour grapes and an excuse for why we lost the game. This post is the one that stood out. 13 hours ago, TimRam said: Glad the goal did not stand...would have been a travesty to get anything from that performance. Sorry Tim but that is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, rynny said: This post is the one that stood out. Sorry Tim but that is just wrong. Yes that's all very subjective, nobody could say what would have happened had the goal stood. Think it's fair enough when people say that incident is not the reason we didn't win, that was more due to the fact that Leeds bossed us for 70-75 minutes of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, rynny said: Sorry Tim but that is just wrong. Got to agree with this. I don't care if we win 1-0 when they should have scored 20! We are Derby. We need to win by whatever means. I don't give a ? if we deserve it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 If we got the points or a point on Friday I would've been a lot happier this weekend irrespective of our performance. Handball? I thought it was one that the ref couldn't really give whether it ticked the boxes or not. I think Bent gained an advantage by using his hand. If the ball just hit his body/face it may have gone anywhere. His hand may have directed the ball in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Wasn't deliberate and his hand wasn't in an unnatural position for a player jumping at pace. did however gain an advantage from it hitting his arm. not as black and white as it should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Make it easier for refs and consistent. If the ball makes contact with the hand or arm, deliberate or not, ball to hand or not, give handball. Some of the harsher ones would even themselves out over a season and players would just have to become more skilful at manoeuvring their bodies when defending shots and crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Raised hand - hand ball, correct decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 As a ref, had it not been handball would you have blown for unsportsman like conduct as half referees do, when they see a goal which is a bit of an accident because of the goalkeepers bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambalin Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 No would not have given unsportsmanlike no reason to has he did nothing to warrant it. Personally have given decisions both ways in this situation depending on various things but overwhelmingly I ask myself if like I mentioned at the beginning of the thread would it have been a pen. On this one I thought the goal should have stood, players knew it could go either way hence no protests from Green or Bent.Someone said earlier make it simple....would be a god send believe me because after offside this causes most confusion for players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Handball. Was correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 5 hours ago, LazloW said: Irrespective of whether the goal should have stood, the comments I've read about not deserving anything out of the game anyway are bizarre. Honestly, who cares whether you deserve anything put of a game or not? Did Leicester deserve all the points they got last year? Of course not. There are always games where you get points where you've been battered. That's part of the game. I want us to play better than we did, but wouldn't begrudge or apologise for getting a streaky point or few when you're playing a very good team away from home. FWIW I don't think a ref would have given a penalty for that if a defender was rushing out to block a shot and it was blasted against his hand from about 5 yards. As others have said, he wasn't in an unnatural position for what he was doing, i.e. jumping toward a fast moving object which could have hit him in the face. Having said that, I can see why a ref wouldn't allow a goal because whether deliberate, avoidable or whatever, there would have been a clear advatange gained from something not really in the spirit of the game. Far easier to disallow than face the flack. At the other end the ref would 'play on' and say it was easier to say ball to hand. Sorry if I haven't got correct wording...... Are you a mind reader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 There was nothing deliberate about it but he gained an advantage by use of the hand. No goal. Blooming pity he didn't let it hit his ear and then it would have been a great bit of tenacious football .. But he didn't, and we would have been screaming hand ball if it had been the other way. Boo hiss sob, but we'll get some our way some way down the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 34 minutes ago, Beagle said: No would not have given unsportsmanlike no reason to has he did nothing to warrant it. Personally have given decisions both ways in this situation depending on various things but overwhelmingly I ask myself if like I mentioned at the beginning of the thread would it have been a pen. On this one I thought the goal should have stood, players knew it could go either way hence no protests from Green or Bent.Someone said earlier make it simple....would be a god send believe me because after offside this causes most confusion for players. Can you define what the natural position is for a players hands are when he is jumping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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