Are we mentally tough enough

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, Dcfc10 said:

Did I say we should go and turn Leeds over I'm going on about the season we ain't dominating games in middle of park even when we went on that run we struggled. Ok u know better.

We struggled?

We kept an unbelievable amount of clean sheets.

We no longer have the team to dominate games and luckily our manager quickly realised this and played to players strengths, unfortunately it appears the fans just expect things to be the same as they were in 2013/14.

The comment re turning Leeds over was not necessarily aimed at you but judging by a lot of comments last night it is what quite a few expected. 

[G STAR RAM]

11 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

Thing is G Star , 

Why do you think we are not not good enough ? What should we do about sorting that ? What would make us good enough ?

What do we need to do to be able to go to Elland road and win  ? After all , we have done it plenty of times in the recent past. 

Every season there are going to be 3 teams that come down that have Premier League players in their squad as well as parachute payments, to be in a position to even think about competing with that we are going to be doing well.

Mac has inherited a mish mash of a squad in my opinion and will take a transfer window or two to get players in that can help move us back to playing exciting possession football like we used to.

In short we are not good enough because we have players that are below the standard of a team that can challenge for automatic promotion.

Speaking to my mates who are Leeds fans they all said that is probably the best they have played this season. I don't think there would be many teams in this division that would have beat them last night.

[BobbyD]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Every season there are going to be 3 teams that come down that have Premier League players in their squad as well as parachute payments, to be in a position to even think about competing with that we are going to be doing well.

Mac has inherited a mish mash of a squad in my opinion and will take a transfer window or two to get players in that can help move us back to playing exciting possession football like we used to.

In short we are not good enough because we have players that are below the standard of a team that can challenge for automatic promotion.

Speaking to my mates who are Leeds fans they all said that is probably the best they have played this season. I don't think there would be many teams in this division that would have beat them last night.

i agree

What do you think we should be doing to address this ?

[BobbyD]

32 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I've said it many time before, we simple aren't mentally tough enough, the fact we haven't come back from a losing position to win a game in the league says that- everytime we have an important match we mess up totally, hull in the playoffs, Reading at home in 2015, the playoff final etc. Also when we do play badly, we seem to play really badly and cannot find a way out of it like yesterday, TBH it's been like this for as long as I can remember really. I don't know what the cause of it is, I mainly think it's the lack of a real captain to lead the team, or maybe it's something deeper down. We've become like Newcastle were and Sunderland are in the prem, something deep down is stopping us from having success, no matter who is in charge or who the playing staff are

M, theres a lot more this than mental strength

If you can't match teams physically, theres no chance of you doing it mentally 

You can achieve with the latter (mentally) if you have the former  (physicall)

You will never achieve the latter (mental) without the former (physical) 

[G STAR RAM]

26 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

i agree

What do you think we should be doing to address this ?

Either hope to go up via the lottery of the play offs or just try and improve your squad every transfer window.

You can try and improve organically which we did during the Clough years but that requires a lot of patience (which our fans clearly don't have anymore) and as we have seen it doesn't take much to undo this!

Beyond the footballing side we have to try and exploit as many income streams as possible, something that our current owner has clearly identified.

[BobbyD]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Either hope to go up via the lottery of the play offs or just try and improve your squad every transfer window.

You can try and improve organically which we did during the Clough years but that requires a lot of patience (which our fans clearly don't have anymore) and as we have seen it doesn't take much to undo this!

Beyond the footballing side we have to try and exploit as many income streams as possible, something that our current owner has clearly identified.

Fair enough

What sort of improvement would you like to see in the transfer window ?

what kind of improvements would you like to see in the team ? Goalie, Defence, Midfield, Up front ?

Who would you like to see us bring in ?

What sort of player ?

Any people in mind who you would like to see in a rams shirt ?

Who would really add to our current squad ?

And what about formation ? Do you think that 4:3:3 works ?

And, if not, what would you like to see. And the players who could make that work for us ?

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

Fair enough

What sort of improvement would you like to see in the transfer window ?

what kind of improvements would you like to see in the team ? Goalie, Defence, Midfield, Up front ?

Who would you like to see us bring in ?

What sort of player ?

Any people in mind who you would like to see in a rams shirt ?

Who would really add to our current squad ?

And what about formation ? Do you think that 4:3:3 works ?

And, if not, what would you like to see. And the players who could make that work for us ?

Without knowing what Mac has in mind going forward its pretty pointless me saying.

I can tell you who I think are good players but does not mean they will fit in with the system Mac wants to play.

Where do I think we should be looking to improve first?

Right back needs looking at I think but that depends which Christie comes back. If he can put in consistent performances he's worth keeping but I don't think it's any coincidence that Inces upturn in form coincided with Christie being out of the team.

If Thorne can keep fit when he comes back I think our midfield will be decent.

Definitely need to be looking for a new striker unless Mac can alter the system to get the best out of Vydra.

[TomBustler1884]

16 hours ago, cannable said:

In four years the squad has almost entirely changed. 

Eight of the fourteen players used yesterday have been promoted before. 

Mental toughness is just an excuse fans make. 

Not necessarily, it depends on the mentality of the replacement players, and culture and ethos through the club as well. 

[TomBustler1884]

And all the points about physicality in midfield are spot on too!

[DRBee]

15 hours ago, BobbyD said:

We are a nice footballing team but, it has to be said, very lightweight physically especially in midfield.

It's Steve's achilles heel, he doesn't seem to be able to see or address this 

You can never be successful with technically good small players but without any tough, battling winners. Its the balance that is the key.

Whenever we come up against teams who do have that balance ( Leeds last night, Middlesbro, Burnley and Hull in recent years) we always come up second best. 

The last time we had a successful promotion we had Powell, Carsley and Van deer Laan in midfield - they would absolutely pulverise our current lot .

Until that is rectified, we will not be going anywhere.

And it doesn't matter how strong mentally you are , you can't swim against the tide if you are not physically strong enough as well

We were always physically lightweight under Clough and that has persisted - hopefully the arrival of Nugent will help.

Blaming this for Friday's loss is off the mark however. Completely sterile down our left with the much called-for (by fans) Camara and Hanson ( who did his best defensively ) , a clapped out Bryson  and Hughes not match-fit enough to start.

Their midfield set-up won the game for Leeds from the start and we did not have the resources to change it much even if MacClaren had wished to .

We need a new player at left-back and not try to muddle through as we are. Even if Lowe was fit for next weekend  we can have no confidence he will stay fit. Olsson is not good enough.

[tomsdubs]

We got completely bullied by Leeds, our injuries haven't helped. Feel like Hanson had an impossible task and Camara was faced up by at least 3 men every time he got the ball. Under the pressure of Leeds you could see our midfield wilt mentally. If the ball came in to feet they looked scared to death of turning, and got no where near any second balls. Ince also seems to be the only guy with confidence that will take on a man 1v1.

The balance of this squad is just wrong at the moment. If we had Forsyth, Christie and Thorne back then we'd be fine but unfortunately can't see that happening this season

[BramcoteRam84]

It's amazing this mental toughness argument always comes out when we lose games. It's also amazing how people seem to be inferring our season will collapse after 2 defeats.

13/14 - was beyond all our expectations, losing in the final we were bloody unlucky, maybe suffered from inexperience as not many of the squad had been in that situation before.

14/15 - Destroyed by Martin's injury and being decimated at DM with at one point 3 players out. You could argue we should have addressed def mid in Jan but we weren't throwing Monday around then. Oh and McClaren courting Newcastle was also a factor

15/16 - Poor managerial appointments, even worst business in the transfer market, spent £25m and didn't improve the squad! Became slow and ponderous, relying on individuals to win games, the high tempo energy and running power went with the signings. We gave ourselves a chance of promotion, the first leg against Hull was criminal - you could possibly argue Mental toughness was an issue here, but this was largely Clement signings not McClaren.

16/17 - Pearson comes in, rips up Derby's plan A introducing his own Plan A with no plan B with a squad not suited to playing his Plan A. Awful transfer business, selling Jeff without replacement, loaning Martin to Fulham. If he stayed we would be in dogfight to survive, no question. McClaren comes in inheriting a mess, transforms our fortunes building on the solidity Pearson had developed (the only thing he did get right) and trying to coach some flair back into the team. He has now hit a brick wall because the squad cannot play the game he wants and he needs to recruit to change things, while also offloading the multi million pounds worth of talent that sits on our bench or not even in the squad, created by the abysmal recruitment of the past 2 seasons. It's a miracle we're even in the playoff race, and if we can't make the necessary changes we will struggle to stay there.

The point I am making is our current predicament (which is good by the way given where we started the season) is not down to mental toughness, it's down to poor managerial appointments and recruitment over the past 2 years, and as for our season collapsing, maybe it is balancing out so we finish mid table which actually would be a good result given the mess McClaren came into.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

It's amazing this mental toughness argument always comes out when we lose games. It's also amazing how people seem to be inferring our season will collapse after 2 defeats.

13/14 - was beyond all our expectations, losing in the final we were bloody unlucky, maybe suffered from inexperience as not many of the squad had been in that situation before.

14/15 - Destroyed by Martin's injury and being decimated at DM with at one point 3 players out. You could argue we should have addressed def mid in Jan but we weren't throwing Monday around then. Oh and McClaren courting Newcastle was also a factor

15/16 - Poor managerial appointments, even worst business in the transfer market, spent £25m and didn't improve the squad! Became slow and ponderous, relying on individuals to win games, the high tempo energy and running power went with the signings. We gave ourselves a chance of promotion, the first leg against Hull was criminal - you could possibly argue Mental toughness was an issue here, but this was largely Clement signings not McClaren.

16/17 - Pearson comes in, rips up Derby's plan A introducing his own Plan A with no plan B with a squad not suited to playing his Plan A. Awful transfer business, selling Jeff without replacement, loaning Martin to Fulham. If he stayed we would be in dogfight to survive, no question. McClaren comes in inheriting a mess, transforms our fortunes building on the solidity Pearson had developed (the only thing he did get right) and trying to coach some flair back into the team. He has now hit a brick wall because the squad cannot play the game he wants and he needs to recruit to change things, while also offloading the multi million pounds worth of talent that sits on our bench or not even in the squad, created by the abysmal recruitment of the past 2 seasons. It's a miracle we're even in the playoff race, and if we can't make the necessary changes we will struggle to stay there.

The point I am making is our current predicament (which is good by the way given where we started the season) is not down to mental toughness, it's down to poor managerial appointments and recruitment over the past 2 years, and as for our season collapsing, maybe it is balancing out so we finish mid table which actually would be a good result given the mess McClaren came into.

I cannot fault that assessment, absolutely spot on.

[cannable]

3 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

It's amazing this mental toughness argument always comes out when we lose games. It's also amazing how people seem to be inferring our season will collapse after 2 defeats.

13/14 - was beyond all our expectations, losing in the final we were bloody unlucky, maybe suffered from inexperience as not many of the squad had been in that situation before.

14/15 - Destroyed by Martin's injury and being decimated at DM with at one point 3 players out. You could argue we should have addressed def mid in Jan but we weren't throwing Monday around then. Oh and McClaren courting Newcastle was also a factor

15/16 - Poor managerial appointments, even worst business in the transfer market, spent £25m and didn't improve the squad! Became slow and ponderous, relying on individuals to win games, the high tempo energy and running power went with the signings. We gave ourselves a chance of promotion, the first leg against Hull was criminal - you could possibly argue Mental toughness was an issue here, but this was largely Clement signings not McClaren.

16/17 - Pearson comes in, rips up Derby's plan A introducing his own Plan A with no plan B with a squad not suited to playing his Plan A. Awful transfer business, selling Jeff without replacement, loaning Martin to Fulham. If he stayed we would be in dogfight to survive, no question. McClaren comes in inheriting a mess, transforms our fortunes building on the solidity Pearson had developed (the only thing he did get right) and trying to coach some flair back into the team. He has now hit a brick wall because the squad cannot play the game he wants and he needs to recruit to change things, while also offloading the multi million pounds worth of talent that sits on our bench or not even in the squad, created by the abysmal recruitment of the past 2 seasons. It's a miracle we're even in the playoff race, and if we can't make the necessary changes we will struggle to stay there.

The point I am making is our current predicament (which is good by the way given where we started the season) is not down to mental toughness, it's down to poor managerial appointments and recruitment over the past 2 years, and as for our season collapsing, maybe it is balancing out so we finish mid table which actually would be a good result given the mess McClaren came into.

The first leg at Hull was the fact we played hoofball rather than our game. 

[RamNut]

5 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

We got completely bullied by Leeds, our injuries haven't helped. Feel like Hanson had an impossible task and Camara was faced up by at least 3 men every time he got the ball. Under the pressure of Leeds you could see our midfield wilt mentally.

Tactically the 4231 dominated the 433 

We didn't have the legs to match the effort they put in

we didn't have the support from the full backs

we left the big no9 unmarked at a corner.

Also.....we were shhit.

[Alph]

I think we could have played any formation at Leeds but if Bryson and Johnson are cowards on ball, the defence are in a flat line and Shackell does whatever that rubbish is when he looks like a stranger to a ball then Leeds are free to press! 

We were down to 10 men with De Sart. Completely marked out the game because Leeds midfield didn't have to worry about anything behind them. Give them a reason to turn around and lay off De Sart. 

If you'd put more players back there then that's more players trapped in by awful football. 

As soon as Hughes came on we had another player to help Ince go the right way. Johnson got more space in 15 mins than De Sart did in 45. 

But the defence was still flat. The left side lost their battles and even Hughes faded. 

It was just a bad day. Team not good enough. Mac's line up was forced on him to some extent and it just wasn't good enough. Like the days of Hendrick and Bryson chasing shadows, Bryson and Johnson as a partnership will never work under a possession side. 

Leeds played well though. 1-0 flattered us

[DerbyMark]

I don't think the issue with this squad is so much about mental toughness as it is about a collective lack of belief when it comes to getting over the line...

The Hull second leg was a classic case in point; despite playing well and taking a 2-0 lead at half time, I for one never seriously thought they would pull it back to 3-0..and they had plenty of time left to do it.

They couldn't do it at Wembley despite dominating an opposition reduced to ten men at the end...and then pressed the self-destruct button in the last minute.

Reading at home on that last day when we only needed a point...and lost 3-0!

Leeds away last season said it all... we're top of the league, score a wonderful team goal to open the scoring then their crowd start the "you'll **** it up" chant...and then we do.

Maybe it's the pressure and weight of expectation they struggle with...

[ram1964]

Agree with a lot of the points made,but consider how many players have a true intrest in the club ,town,or fans. We are just a meal ticket for a lot players waiting for the next best thing. Sure they want to do well want the opurtunity for bigger better things, but dont think its a coincidence Will Hughes is our best player dispite spending millions on numerous players and that Johnny Russell  and keogh play with full commitment unlike most of the squad who blow hot and cold. Personally dont see the passion commitment from the players often enough vydra  at Leeds the perfect example.

[jagerbob]

Quote

I don't think the issue with this squad is so much about mental toughness as it is about a collective lack of belief when it comes to getting over the line...

The Hull second leg was a classic case in point; despite playing well and taking a 2-0 lead at half time, I for one never seriously thought they would pull it back to 3-0..and they had plenty of time left to do it.

They couldn't do it at Wembley despite dominating an opposition reduced to ten men at the end...and then pressed the self-destruct button in the last minute.

Reading at home on that last day when we only needed a point...and lost 3-0!

Leeds away last season said it all... we're top of the league, score a wonderful team goal to open the scoring then their crowd start the "you'll **** it up" chant...and then we do.

Maybe it's the pressure and weight of expectation they struggle with...

I dont believe this ....geting over the line nonsense.

Its as much a bullshit term as "The derby way" is.

To GET OVER A LINE you have to be in a position to be near the friggin line, which we never are.

Only in tzhe play off final can you use such a terrible term.

All that is required is a more conistant season of 46 games...... that is all!

[DerbyMark]

17 minutes ago, jagerbob said:

I dont believe this ....geting over the line nonsense.

Its as much a bullshit term as "The derby way" is.

To GET OVER A LINE you have to be in a position to be near the friggin line, which we never are.

Only in tzhe play off final can you use such a terrible term.

All that is required is a more conistant season of 46 games...... that is all!

Well the Reading game we were already over the line - i.e in the top six, needing a point at home to make the playoffs and we blew it.

Same at Wembley...we'll never have a better chance against ten men.

You call it lack of consistency, I call it bottling it.

Oh and by the way, we'd of gone top 6 if we'd won the other night... but didn't turn up.