Perspective

[Comrade 86]

Much has been made of the Leeds performance and rightly so. It was poor. That said, let's give a little credit to Leeds who were excellent and Monk who got his tactics absolutely spot on. Monk was much maligned on this forum when mooted for the vacant manager's position at Derby but he has totally transformed Leeds and deserves immense credit for doing so. To my mind we were not only outplayed but outhought too. All of this notwithstanding, a couple of quality loans / signings and a couple back from injury and I'd like to think we could match Leeds across the park.

[europia]

2 hours ago, 86 points said:

Much has been made of the Leeds performance and rightly so. It was poor. That said, let's give a little credit to Leeds who were excellent and Monk who got his tactics absolutely spot on. Monk was much maligned on this forum when mooted for the vacant manager's position at Derby but he has totally transformed Leeds and deserves immense credit for doing so. To my mind we were not only outplayed but outhought too. All of this notwithstanding, a couple of quality loans / signings and a couple back from injury and I'd like to think we could match Leeds across the park.

Yes, credit to Monk. I always thought Swansea were hasty in sacking an up and coming manager, considering they knew he was learning the job and needed some time. Obviously they haven't learned....look who they have gone and appointed to save their PL status.

[Rambo11]

On 14/01/2017 at 09:42, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

You know,it's taken me several.years to realise the genius in Clough's recruiting...On a nothing budget he put together the best set of footballers,who fitted together like a glove,for years.

It just took mac to get them playing such good football....

There are reasons to criticise Clough. Largely down to what McClaren achieved with the same squad plus a few additions, but for the stability he provided and the way he tried to play, he should be commended. There aren't many managers who could have done the same given the circumstances 

 

 

[Ambitious]

I really don't get what is so difficult about recruitment. 

If my job was to watch football non-stop and find players at a reasonable price to be better than what's already at the club. I would bet my life on us having a significantly better squad than we do now.

It's really not that difficult, grinds my gears that it's made out to be such an artform!! 

[jono]

On 13 January 2017 at 21:58, Bris Vegas said:

Yep. Before anybody gets their knickers in a twist, we were missing up to eight first-team players tonight. Yeah we made Leeds look like a top-flight side, but with that XI out there we would have made Wigan look like a top-flight side too.

There is little doubt this is our best starting XI when all available and fit.

Carson, Christie, Pearce, Keogh, Forsyth, Thorne, Hughes, Butterfield, Ince, Russell, Martin - 433.

Only three of those players started against Leeds.

And even with that team above, the midfield is still unbalanced (need an AM to replace Butterfield) and we could arguably get improvements on both Russell and Christie too.

Some perspective is needed. We are miles off the 2013/14 side. McClaren has a big summer ahead and it's evident from tonight against Leeds that we have so much deadwood to ship out. 

How turgid were we? And then think the likes of Blackman, Weimann and Vydra couldn't get in to that XI.

Patience is needed. 

 

Yes Bris, patience is needed but that team has never played together, or if they have it was a one off. So being picky we don't know if that is our best team. Johnson looked good at AM when he arrived. The crunching steel that we have missed for a long time. Then the big form dip. Who says Thorne Johnson Hughes wouldn't be a winner ? How many games have that trio had ... Not many I bet. 

But I am not wanting to be quarrelsome .. Mac needs to get his head round what we have and how best to use it and balance it ( you are 100% right using the word balance because it isn't about one player. - stat for stat we are promotion chasers but it's groups of players, teams within teams, that make a wining side ) 

[Rev]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

I really don't get what is so difficult about recruitment. 

If my job was to watch football non-stop and find players at a reasonable price to be better than what's already at the club. I would bet my life on us having a significantly better squad than we do now.

It's really not that difficult, grinds my gears that it's made out to be such an artform!! 

Maybe the recruitment team are like me, and just can't be arsed to watch properly if it's not Derby?

You are coming over a bit Bris though, maybe it's a journalist thing?

[Rampage]

The thing about perspective is that it appears to lead to narrow viewpoints.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Reading the posts from all the contributors I was struck by something and a question came to my mind.

Credit has been given to monk for tactically outwitting mcclaren and our formation /tactics contributing significantly to leeds' success against us.

In other threads we bemoan the lack of a plan b.

So my thought was when was the last time any of us remember mcclaren making a tactical or even personnel adjustment for a specific opposition? Either for the game or even within it. I don't mean replacing woefully performing players with others who attempt to do similar roles. I mean actually doing something demonstrably different to our usual. 

I'm struggling to think of examples. Which might mean we have a gap now in our approach. We had the incredibly analytical stuff going on under clement - what's happened to those personnel and all the hi-tech that they had?

[Zag zig]

 

21 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Reading the posts from all the contributors I was struck by something and a question came to my mind.

Credit has been given to monk for tactically outwitting mcclaren and our formation /tactics contributing significantly to leeds' success against us.

In other threads we bemoan the lack of a plan b.

So my thought was when was the last time any of us remember mcclaren making a tactical or even personnel adjustment for a specific opposition? Either for the game or even within it. I don't mean replacing woefully performing players with others who attempt to do similar roles. I mean actually doing something demonstrably different to our usual. 

I'm struggling to think of examples. Which might mean we have a gap now in our approach. We had the incredibly analytical stuff going on under clement - what's happened to those personnel and all the hi-tech that they had?

Throwing on an extra striker, that just so happened to be Connor Sammon, near the end of the game at Watford away during his first tenure.

Most Managers would halve settled for a point, as it was real end to end but they were arguably better than us at the time, not Mac he went for it and the fearsome Sammon grabbed the winner.

From that moment I knew we were in for more exciting times. Feck me, it's bloody odd thinking back how some moan at our current state, considering where we were at a few years ago.

Looking forward to what Reading brings, win, lose or draw.

[Casio]

28 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Reading the posts from all the contributors I was struck by something and a question came to my mind.

Credit has been given to monk for tactically outwitting mcclaren and our formation /tactics contributing significantly to leeds' success against us.

In other threads we bemoan the lack of a plan b.

So my thought was when was the last time any of us remember mcclaren making a tactical or even personnel adjustment for a specific opposition? Either for the game or even within it. I don't mean replacing woefully performing players with others who attempt to do similar roles. I mean actually doing something demonstrably different to our usual. 

I'm struggling to think of examples. Which might mean we have a gap now in our approach. We had the incredibly analytical stuff going on under clement - what's happened to those personnel and all the hi-tech that they had?

I'm a huge fan of McClaren and thank him for some of the most fun and pride I have had watching Derby in his recent stints at the club however, do agree with some of your points here.

I can't think of many times where we notably changed our game to suit the opposition and counter their style of play. West Brom is the only example I can really think of as an example of this but when it comes to the league, I think we can sometimes be a little complacent in our approach, assuming our strong squad, passing style and our depth is enough to get a result, despite the opposition. 

Saturday will be interesting in how we approach the game, with Reading having a strong season and a relatively similar style of play to us under Stam. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

42 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Reading the posts from all the contributors I was struck by something and a question came to my mind.

Credit has been given to monk for tactically outwitting mcclaren and our formation /tactics contributing significantly to leeds' success against us.

In other threads we bemoan the lack of a plan b.

So my thought was when was the last time any of us remember mcclaren making a tactical or even personnel adjustment for a specific opposition? Either for the game or even within it. I don't mean replacing woefully performing players with others who attempt to do similar roles. I mean actually doing something demonstrably different to our usual. 

I'm struggling to think of examples. Which might mean we have a gap now in our approach. We had the incredibly analytical stuff going on under clement - what's happened to those personnel and all the hi-tech that they had?

Our game plan at Fulham was to surrender possession. Don't play out from the back and play very much on the break. Specific tactic for a specific game which although not pretty worked as we got a point against a very dominant home team.

[uttoxram75]

33 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

 

Throwing on an extra striker, that just so happened to be Connor Sammon, near the end of the game at Watford away during his first tenure.

Most Managers would halve settled for a point, as it was real end to end but they were arguably better than us at the time, not Mac he went for it and the fearsome Sammon grabbed the winner.

From that moment I knew we were in for more exciting times. Feck me, it's bloody odd thinking back how some moan at our current state, considering where we were at a few years ago.

Looking forward to what Reading brings, win, lose or draw.

After that game Steve said it was Simmo who convinced him to go for it.

Steve's natural instinct is to play it safe and not commit too many men forward, rather try and hit teams on the break or rely on individual brilliance from someone like Ince.

 

[toddy]

19 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

After that game Steve said it was Simmo who convinced him to go for it.

Steve's natural instinct is to play it safe and not commit too many men forward, rather try and hit teams on the break or rely on individual brilliance from someone like Ince.

 

I have seen that interview again recently, but for the life of me I cannot remember where. and yes he gave 'Simmo' the credit.

[Zag zig]

8 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

After that game Steve said it was Simmo who convinced him to go for it.

Steve's natural instinct is to play it safe and not commit too many men forward, rather try and hit teams on the break or rely on individual brilliance from someone like Ince.

 

Awwh. Don't taint my recollection, you're right of course, remember that being said, sentiment still stands though for perspective, we are in a better place with more exciting seasons for those with even shorter memories 

[EssendonRam]

On 19/01/2017 at 02:44, cannable said:

To be fair, Clement and supposedly Pearson were brought in to continue building the squad and tried to rebuild it.

And given 19 and 8 (or 9?) games between them. Barely more than half a Championship season in total.

Precisely my point: both had one transfer window each.

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, EssendonRam said:

And given 19 and 8 (or 9?) games between them. Barely more than half a Championship season in total.

Precisely my point: both had one transfer window each.

Clement had two, I wish Pearson had not had one.

[rynny]

15 minutes ago, EssendonRam said:

And given 19 and 8 (or 9?) games between them. Barely more than half a Championship season in total.

Precisely my point: both had one transfer window each.

Clement had almost double the number of games in charge to that (33) and just to complete my pedanticness Pearson had 12 games.

[cannable]

39 minutes ago, EssendonRam said:

And given 19 and 8 (or 9?) games between them. Barely more than half a Championship season in total.

Precisely my point: both had one transfer window each.

And caused a **** ton of damage