Official: Tom Ince joins Huddersfield Town

[Nuwtfly]

2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

The beginning of five years of awful football with workmanlike players.

I was referring more to the promotion season, but you are right. Though I think those five years are more on the managers than Idiakez and Smith 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, i-Ram said:

I wasn't digging at Gary. Your point is of course fair, but my opinion remains the same that Gary prefers substance to style, money or no money.

I didn't say you were digging at Gary. But what point to style with no substance and substance only will only get you so far. Else why would he go on about getting players in to enable other players to do their bit? They're not gonna need substance players to allow substance players to work, so it'll be substance players (whatever they are) to enable style players to do their bit.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Gary has said two things of note to me.

1. The side has quality but is out of balance.

2. Some players have been around for quite a while and may want/need a change.

We have to expect some familiar faces to go BUT hopefully we can expect some interesting players to arrive. There has to be change it can't be avoided.

[i-Ram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I didn't say you were digging at Gary. But what point to style with no substance and substance only will only get you so far. Else why would he go on about getting players in to enable other players to do their bit? They're not gonna need substance players to allow substance players to work, so it'll be substance players (whatever they are) to enable style players to do their bit.

I agree substance will only get you so far. I fear that will be the outcome.

Anyway, let's return to this around the end of August when we will have firm evidence of Gary's blueprint for the 17/18 campaign. 

[Ambitious]

Ince is as proven as you get at this level. I don't think he's ever not reached double figures at this level, certainly not without mitigating circumstances. 

I do think there are a few players that some would be happy to lose, which would be hugely detrimental to us. Similarly like losing Martin was. Forget the goals he brought to the table, he created more chances from open play than any other player last season. It was that in itself that really hurt us this season, in my opinion anyway. 

If Ince goes, which I don't think would be surprising, it's on Rowett and co to find an adequate replacement. When you consider that in his 211 Championship games, he has amassed 68 goals & 44 assists. It's no small feat. I don't think it would be an impossibility to do better, but I certainly wouldn't back us to manage it. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

12 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Ince is as proven as you get at this level. I don't think he's ever not reached double figures at this level, certainly not without mitigating circumstances. 

I do think there are a few players that some would be happy to lose, which would be hugely detrimental to us. Similarly like losing Martin was. Forget the goals he brought to the table, he created more chances from open play than any other player last season. It was that in itself that really hurt us this season, in my opinion anyway. 

If Ince goes, which I don't think would be surprising, it's on Rowett and co to find an adequate replacement. When you consider that in his 211 Championship games, he has amassed 68 goals & 44 assists. It's no small feat. I don't think it would be an impossibility to do better, but I certainly wouldn't back us to manage it. 

I don't necessarily disagree ambitious but we were pretty good before he signed. We may be pretty good after/if he goes.

[Ambitious]

Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I don't necessarily disagree ambitious but we were pretty good before he signed. We may be pretty good after/if he goes.

Absolutely. 

It could be argued that had Ince been brought in with Thorne, though, that it would have been very different. The need for a player like Ince in the final against QPR could have made the difference. We lacked edge when it mattered and Ince has that edge. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Good point.

[Inverurie Ram]

Have we sold Ince yet?

[Posh Ram]

I do think the odd thing about Ince is while he scores a lot and has clear quality, does he make us any better?

McClaren's second season Ince and Bent played really well and that coincided with a terrible run of form. What they had in individual quality didn't outweigh the more rounded contributions of Martin and, say, Ibe.

If a £10m+ offer came in for Ince I'd definitely take it, same with Hughes. They're great players but spend that money right and we'd walk the Championship. 

[Andicis]

 It's a joke people think Ward or Russell are even close to Ince's level. Ince is the best winger we've had at Derby County for a long time, yet he still is slated by people who prefer a player who is perceived to work hard. I wish I had a stat showing distance covered in each game, I think Ince works just as hard as Russell, and has a vastly better end product.

 Now, if Newcastle were to end up paying £10 - £15m would we be able to guarantee we'd be able to get the quality required for promotion? No. Hanley is a clogger who we don't need at Derby. 

 For me it boils down to would we be able to get in an attacker guaranteed to get as many goals as Ince in the championship at Tom's age. The answer is simply no. Ince is chronically underrated by our fans, and I don't understand why. He scored 15 goals, and 8 assists. That is probably Russell's tally in the past two seasons? (Note - I don't dislike Russell, he's just my chosen example). 

 We also must refer to how difficult it is to buy a quality winger. Some positions have much more supply than others, I think central midfield for example is more easy to buy in than the wing. I personally believe only one of our wingers is good enough to be at Derby, which is Ince. So, in my opinion, if we sold Ince we would need about 3 new wingers to cover the loss.I just don't think it's possible to replace his quality at this level.

I'm with some other posters in believing Hughes is less critical to Derby than Ince. This season Ince and Carson have been our consistent players, whereas for half of the season Hughes has been missing. So if push came to shove, I'd be more happy (only if we absolutely had to sell to recruit) if we were to sell Hughes. 

As to the posts about Ince not fitting Rowett, I don't believe any of us can judge this yet. Ince has been played in all of Rowett's games so far I believe, so there is no reason for me to think that Rowett doesn't like Ince, as I reiterate, Ince works hard.

 

[Lokidoki]

55 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I do think there are a few players that some would be happy to lose, which would be hugely detrimental to us. Similarly like losing Martin was

We just need to get shot of both to build a team that may will be less exciting but have more of a chance of a result; win ugly as Ramage would say.

Exciting is for the premiership and then we have to rebuild once more.

We could do this team for the next five years and still never get promoted and then get nothing for the so-called assets. So get rid now.

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, Posh Ram said:

I do think the odd thing about Ince is while he scores a lot and has clear quality, does he make us any better?

McClaren's second season Ince and Bent played really well and that coincided with a terrible run of form. What they had in individual quality didn't outweigh the more rounded contributions of Martin and, say, Ibe.

If a £10m+ offer came in for Ince I'd definitely take it, same with Hughes. They're great players but spend that money right and we'd walk the Championship. 

The thing is, spending the money right is something we at Derby have struggled. We currently have had awful recruitment, and there is certainly no guarantee that the players we would sign after getting rid of those two would be good enough to improve the squad. We'd be in danger of being left with a workman like squad devoid of any quality - see Birmingham under Rowett.

[DCFC1388]

18 minutes ago, Andicis said:

 It's a joke people think Ward or Russell are even close to Ince's level. Ince is the best winger we've had at Derby County for a long time, yet he still is slated by people who prefer a player who is perceived to work hard. I wish I had a stat showing distance covered in each game, I think Ince works just as hard as Russell, and has a vastly better end product.

 For me it boils down to would we be able to get in an attacker guaranteed to get as many goals as Ince in the championship at Tom's age. The answer is simply no. Ince is chronically underrated by our fans, and I don't understand why. He scored 15 goals, and 8 assists. That is probably Russell's tally in the past two seasons? (Note - I don't dislike Russell, he's just my chosen example). 

 We also must refer to how difficult it is to buy a quality winger. Some positions have much more supply than others, I think central midfield for example is more easy to buy in than the wing. I personally believe only one of our wingers is good enough to be at Derby, which is Ince. So, in my opinion, if we sold Ince we would need about 3 new wingers to cover the loss.I just don't think it's possible to replace his quality at this level.

As to the posts about Ince not fitting Rowett, I don't believe any of us can judge this yet. Ince has been played in all of Rowett's games so far I believe, so there is no reason for me to think that Rowett doesn't like Ince, as I reiterate, Ince works hard.

 

Bang on mate, too many fans think Ince is a luxury player but he is constantly up and down the wing, there have been a number of times teams have hit us on the counter from a set piece and ince has got back to defend, sometimes even been the last man.

Dont get where the idea that Rowett doesnt like flair players etc comes from? He has has openly said its about balance, nobody gets promoted with just luxury players or just efficient workhorses, its a mixture of both. Ince to us is no different to Knockaert for Brighton so unless a stupidly high bid comes in, why sell? The noises from the club are that we have a budget to stay in FFP but that we dont have to sell to buy it just makes sense to sell some due to the squad size & quality.

Ince may sulk and moan on the pitch, like Martin does, but to me thats just their frustration at not having players around them at a similar level, id say Hughes Thorne Vydra and maybe Johnson are but thats it. Ince (and Martin) always want the ball, Ince himself said alot of his goals came from other players doing the hard stuff and he finishes it off, seems like Rowett will be getting more players in to do the hard stuff to help the likes of Martin and Ince to flourish

[RamLad1884]

3 hours ago, Andicis said:

No chance Ibe is going for anywhere near £7 million, he was signed for £15 million and Bournemouth won't take an £8million loss in one season.

I'd imagine it was £15 million with all the add ons. Its likely they'd be taking a loss of around 3/4 million 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, DCFC1388 said:

Bang on mate, too many fans think Ince is a luxury player but he is constantly up and down the wing, there have been a number of times teams have hit us on the counter from a set piece and ince has got back to defend, sometimes even been the last man.

Dont get where the idea that Rowett doesnt like flair players etc comes from? He has has openly said its about balance, nobody gets promoted with just luxury players or just efficient workhorses, its a mixture of both. Ince to us is no different to Knockaert for Brighton so unless a stupidly high bid comes in, why sell? The noises from the club are that we have a budget to stay in FFP but that we dont have to sell to biy its just makes sense to sell due to the squad size & quality.

Ince may sulk and moan on the pitch, like Martin does, but to me thats just their frustration at not having players around them at a similar level, id say Hughes Thorne Vydra and maybe Johnsom are but thats it. Ince (and Martin) always want the ball, Ince himself alot of his goals came from other players doing the hard stuff and he finishes it off, seems like Rowett will be getting more players in to do the hard stuff to help the likes of Martin and Ince to flourish

If we look at the 'workman' like teams that have been promoted, only Burnley have stayed up, Boro came straight down, as did Norwich. The footballing sides of Bournemouth, Watford and before that Southampton have been much more successful. All be it, Hull came straight back down, but that was just sheer lack of preparation of their part and I'm not sure it can be said they played football. In the long term I'm not willing to watch Derby become a run of the mill hoof ball team, and our flair players of Ince and Hughes makes us stand out from the average championship side, without those two we'd easily be lower-mid table.

I think on the sulking it's the reason people dislike Ince and Martin. I think if they were these falsely upbeat players people would like them much more. People think Rowett doesn't like flair because he wants people to work hard, and at Brum he played long ball (because his team was awful, and so he played to their strengths well). At the end of the day, I'm a football fan to enjoy football, and the hoofball style played by Boro and Burnley is just not for me. 

[Lokidoki]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's a joke people think Ward or Russell are even close to Ince's level.

Ince is not faultless. In fact he has some of the most poorest positional play of a top class forward/winger that I have ever witnessed. And I am 60. He de-stabilises the shape of a team; he eschews wing back play, he doesn't run back quick enough in a 4-3-3, he plays with on-off tantrums and doesn't look like a team player.

Albeit there is a bit of genius in him and the stupid Tw*t too - the Wolves air-shot being one of the seasons fluffs. Love to see a compilation on YouTube of all his missed air kicks.

I have said this in earlier comments. This division needs 100% committed professionals that only want to win every game and perhaps albeit forcefully and not prima donnas that can only play to cameras. Get rid and if we get in the prem we can always buy him back for a cheapo then.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Lokidoki said:

Ince is not faultless. In fact he has some of the most poorest positional play of a top class forward/winger that I have ever witnessed. And I am 60. He de-stabilises the shape of a team; he eschews wing back play, he doesn't run back quick enough in a 4-3-3, he plays with on-off tantrums and doesn't look like a team player.

Albeit there is a bit of genius in him and the stupid Tw*t too - the Wolves air-shot being one of the seasons fluffs. Love to see a compilation on YouTube of all his missed air kicks.

I have said this in earlier comments. This division needs 100% committed professionals that only want to win every game and perhaps albeit forcefully and not prima donnas that can only play to cameras. Get rid and if we get in the prem we can always buy him back for a cheapo then.

You have nothing to back your point he's a prima donna. That is just pure opinion, and one you have nothing to base it on. Ince does work hard, and does run back quickly, I think if you were to rewatch some of the games this season without your blatant bias against Ince you would see that. 

 No player is 'faultless' we're Derby County, not Real Madrid. I don't expect faultless. But in Ince we've got a bloody good player. How many wingers have the consistency in goal scoring statistics that Ince has? What do you mean by positional play? Ince rotates since he can fulfill a number 10 and on the wing, that's not his poor positional play, that's him following his managers orders. 

And no other player has ever 'done an air shot' Russell vs forest in the 5-0 game, I seem to recall quite vividly, and it almost happens once every single game for most players. 

We wouldn't get him back on the cheap, since the club signing him might actually have fans that appreciate his talents instead of slating him for a myth of bad attitude and poor effort. This perception Derby fans had before he even signed, and kept up, even though he proves every single game to the unbias he isn't lazy or uncommitted. In fact, I think Ince is one of the only players you CAN'T question his commitment. He clearly gave it his all this season.

But naturally, because he isn't happily clapping all over the pitch he's not a good player right?

Get a grip. He's top class. 

[cannable]

3 hours ago, Lokidoki said:

 

Utter tosh.

Ince fluffed more than he scored (you must remember how many air kicks?) and didn't pass too. He played the team out of shape most of the time and cannot play with a wing back (Uh... I should be there; bottom lippy!), he certainly does not know what an overlap is. I am sure that if we had have played Russell there, in, what is actually his better position, we may have had a confident Russell scoring a pot full more and we could then have developed our other two left wingers. But we had to play Ince.

Martin is a genius when he turns up and when he doesn't go down the mister predictable route and then do his histrionics and get lazy, he also can only play in a certain shape so it makes the team ineffective if we have to counter the opposition's team's tactics.

Overall,  what we need is weekly consistency like what  Bournemouth and Brighton have achieved in this league. To me and many others (Martin) he is not the player to do it and so many other players in the present team have proved to have  similar traits. Let Rowett get rid and build something with genuine character. Let's just rebuild with the players that have that character (yes I've said it twice to emphasise) to take us to the next level.

"Utter tosh."

[Comrade 86]

Big, fat 'no' from me. If we've pretensions towards Premiership football then we keep Ince and Hughes if we can. Should they want to go, well that's another story, but we should be looking for £15M as a minimum with at least 75% in year one. Imagine this season past without Ince - scarcely bears thinking about! 

Also, the 'sell to build' argument assumes that if we sell Tom the money will be put to good use but there's scant recent evidence to suggest that'll happen. Perhaps GR will do better but there are less risky ways for us to find out whether he brings transfer nous to the table than by shipping out our best player.