RoyMac5 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 30 minutes ago, unclej said: I'm trying to recall the turning point under Steve McClaren's previous emanation when teams stopped allowing us all the time in the world to build from the back. I know it was at home and the team pressed us from the goalkeepers rolled out ball and all over the back four. It unsettled us and we lost at home and from then on every team we played pressed and harassed us to good effect. The thing was, we didn't change and continued to try and play it out from the back, often playing ourselves into trouble... If it was Wigan did we get no points after that? Its utter nonsense all this found out crap. "We didn't change..." Why should we, we racked up wins & points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 It wasnt Wigan, It was in the new year of 2015. We should certainly deviate from our current insistence of playing out from the back. Centerforwards are salivating at the prospect of running down the ball and putting us under pressure from the rolled out ball by Carson. It always leads to a ball punted up the ground anyway, but in panic rather than by choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 31 minutes ago, unclej said: It wasnt Wigan, It was in the new year of 2015. We should certainly deviate from our current insistence of playing out from the back. Centerforwards are salivating at the prospect of running down the ball and putting us under pressure from the rolled out ball by Carson. It always leads to a ball punted up the ground anyway, but in panic rather than by choice. At Fulham we didn't play out from the back. Carson was chipping to the right & left all game. Play out when we can but longer but directed ball when we can't. One thing though...............Shackell cannot it seems play our from the back at all.It's counter productive to give him the ball. Far too slow. When he has decided to pass the receiver has been virtually been closed down. Good as he is when we are facing a barrage of long balls into the box he unfortunately he does not give us the ability to play out. Pearce for Shackell next time please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 5 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: At Fulham we didn't play out from the back. Carson was chipping to the right & left all game. Play out when we can but longer but directed ball when we can't. One thing though...............Shackell cannot it seems play our from the back at all.It's counter productive to give him the ball. Far too slow. When he has decided to pass the receiver has been virtually been closed down. Good as he is when we are facing a barrage of long balls into the box he unfortunately he does not give us the ability to play out. Pearce for Shackell next time please. Everybody has been saying this for years which is why it was more than a little baffling to see McClaren try and make him do it against Leeds, when Pearce is far better with the ball at his feet. Let's hope McClaren has learnt his lesson for the Reading match, because Shackell's performance against Leeds reminded everyone exactly why he had been dropped in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 5 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: At Fulham we didn't play out from the back. Carson was chipping to the right & left all game. Play out when we can but longer but directed ball when we can't. One thing though...............Shackell cannot it seems play our from the back at all.It's counter productive to give him the ball. Far too slow. When he has decided to pass the receiver has been virtually been closed down. Good as he is when we are facing a barrage of long balls into the box he unfortunately he does not give us the ability to play out. Pearce for Shackell next time please. I agree with this, very hard on Pearce to be dropped anyway, as for me over the season, he has been our player of the season, hope Pearce is back against Reading, as on Friday we missed his partnership with Keogh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 In the end, the key to the whole debacle was giving Shackell his place against Leeds. Yes he played really well against West Brom, but that was because Pullis teams play to Shackell's strengths. He is good at knowing where to be to intercept the ball and clearing it, so dealing with cross and hoof-balls into the box are what he does well. And that is all he had to do against WBA. Tracking defenders as they run in and attack the ball is becoming increasingly problematic, and giv e him the ball and his face goes blank as he tries to work out what to do next. "I know, I'll go sideways, or backwards, That will be good". Or "EVen better, I'll just kick it really hard to one of their players". DIal this in with our "play it out from the back" which requires a Chuckle Brothers "To you, to me, to you, to me" episode means we take a week to get the ball out, by which time, the opposition have got back into position and we are all marked up. So instead of the ball being played quickly to deSart who can then begin to spray the ball around, de Sart has to come deeper and deeper to the the ball, inevitably tracked by a Leeds man, making his job harder. It also meant he was isolated from the midfield, which is where we lost the match, in all fairness. So deSart wasn't poor, or lightweight, he was hamstrung by the selection of Shackell. Leeds had done a really good job on us. and their homework paid off big time. They exploited our weakness at left back, not that Hanson is a poor player - he has been drafted in at the last minute having been left out of things once he was fit enough, and as well as little match time, he is way out of position, and on Friday he often had two or three players having a go at him. Neither of our full backs are "outlets", meaning we had to get the ball to Camara and Ince. Leeds had worked this one out as ell, and there were always 3 players on them. Criticising Camara for taking too many players on or running into defenders had missed the fact that he actually didn't have the luxury of trying to take them all on. Ince did fair better. because he does have a little more experience and nous, but in reality Leeds had got us sussed. In addition is our preference for standing off when an opposition player has the ball allowing them to come further and further forwards unchallenged. It does avoid yellow cards for our challenges, which referees are happy to hand out like confetti to Derby players, but it brings pressure on to us every time. We know that teams who harry and pressure us make it hard for us to play ur game, so why don't we do the same to them? WIll Hughes was recovering from a knee injury, which Leeds knew about, so starting him would mean that he would be clattered right from the start, and that would be a tactical priority for the Dirties. Bringing him on at half time meant that he would be high on their list of priorities, giving him half a chance to make an impact. Our Will did do that, but they still got him - that tackle was career-threatening with a full-studded foot just above his ankle, and should have been a red card. But not from this ref - was his surname Simpson, because he was certainly a homer. Butterfield has good grounf=ds to re-appeal his red card for a much less dangerous tackle. The ref gave us nothing, apart from missing Bryson's naughty for which he should have been red-carded. The ref will get a bollocking for missing that one, but he was right to dismiss Johnson - what was Bradders thinking of? Both the fouls were totally unnecessary. Where to from here? I think we need to put Pearce straight back in for a start, and then get the players closing the opposition down and harrying them, and we need to get back to a quick-passing game getting the ball forwards as soon as possible.And locking Shackell in the Leeds away dressing room.We can do it, we can still get into the play-offs. COYR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 101 pages, and no-ones blamed @RamsPolls! I knew it was too early for him, turns up for a glamour game but neglected the bread and butter. He's my crapgoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Great analysis by @DavesaRam but I think we have to accept that to turn round the style is no quick fix. We need to accept that simply to issue the instruction with confidence low and the possibility of a playoff place is high risk. Mac needs a period of stability in personnel to coach the good habits back into the team and a period of time without raised expectations to breed the confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 and with our fans... no chance. Always did say this is a free season after we were bottom 3 when Pearson left. Anything about top half is a bonus. Get some players in, get some stablity and hope for better luck in the left back position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsPolls Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 16 hours ago, reveldevil said: 101 pages, and no-ones blamed @RamsPolls! I knew it was too early for him, turns up for a glamour game but neglected the bread and butter. He's my crapgoat. Just because everyone now loves me! No need to try and stir things up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Can we just go back to blaming Chris Baird? For everything?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 4 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Can we just go back to blaming Chris Baird? For everything?? No. That's not fair on Keogh. He is the one to blame for everything, although personally I think it is all because of the Brexit vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, DavesaRam said: No. That's not fair on Keogh. He is the one to blame for everything, although personally I think it is all because of the Brexit vote. Can we just speed up Yexit? (Yorkshire Exit.....and let everyone not in Yorkshire vote on it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WharfedaleRam Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Does all this hand-wringing create a record for the longest time a matchday thread has been running!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Beaten by Barnsley tonight....Today has been a great day....Derby beat reading,my backs finally starting to feel better and this....brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 How can this be? Beaten by Barnsley? According to some Derby fans last week, Leeds are an AC Milan / Barca hybrid who are simply amazing. Or... is it that we were just really bad and they picked us off easily due to us not turning up?! Hmmm, I wonder. Or.... maybe Barnsley are the Real / Bayern of South Yorkshire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnstile Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 We made leeds look good,there crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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