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Butterfield red card appealed


David

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15 hours ago, The Arch Deacon said:

You don't half talk some **** Ninos! And it's just not born out by the stats. (Not that stats are everything!) But he plays the role that Mac is asking him to play better than anybody else in a Derby shirt. JB and JR have been integral to the impressive run that's just come to an end! Give them a break FFS! 

Unfortunately for you, I go to the matches.  I can see exactly what he's doing and I get why mcclaren yanked him first vs Wigan. Proper dire display it was. And the dude just needs to stop taking shots because I have more confidence in will shooting from 20 yards than him. 

i don't abuse or boo players at the game never have but if I think a player hurts our chances of winning games I'm calling them out on it. That's what a forum is about - talking about who's good who isn't and all things DCFC.

With his blessing in disguise suspension you watch - you'll see a revitalised midfield. 

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2 minutes ago, irobinson said:

many thanks what a goal!! what a performance  - was at that game  - then unfortunately Hillsboro semi...saddest day of my derby life.......

Beat Everton, Liverpool, Man City then the Geordies in the cup - all four good teams at home...we were on for the double - then King Charles bust his shoulder at Stoke...rest his history

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26 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Unfortunately for you, I go to the matches.  I can see exactly what he's doing and I get why mcclaren yanked him first vs Wigan. Proper dire display it was. And the dude just needs to stop taking shots because I have more confidence in will shooting from 20 yards than him. 

i don't abuse or boo players at the game never have but if I think a player hurts our chances of winning games I'm calling them out on it. That's what a forum is about - talking about who's good who isn't and all things DCFC.

With his blessing in disguise suspension you watch - you'll see a revitalised midfield. 

Go to most at home, and was at the Wigan game. It was a lacklustre performance from all, JB and JR were no better or worse than anyone else in a Derby shirt. A typical end of Christmas period game with tired legs against a park the bus opposition. It was 6.5's across the board for Derby, (Carson the exception who was faultless). Nothing improved with the fresh legs of Bryson and Camara. WH, BJ, TI, you name it, all looked below par. But on the back of a ten match unbeaten run, 8 out of 10 wins, a climb from bottom 3 to top 6, I'm just not sure what you want to achieve by picking out individuals? You want more goals from Butterfield, so against Wigan he takes 6 shots, 2 on target, 4 blocked. You want him to get stuck in and make more tackles, so against Norwich he does, and receives a very debatable red. Had it been BJ rather than JB, you would have defended him to the hilt! I bow to your greater attendance record, well done! but that doesn't make you Alan Hanson. But this constant scapegoating at a time when we should be congratulating them on an impressive winning run and encouraging ALL the Derby team to go on a new winning run, is just boring. Mac clearly see's a quality footballer in both, particularly Butterfield. Hence why he's played the vast majority of minutes since his return. And when Derby struggle without him against Leeds and Reading, you'll be on his back for getting banned in the first place. Loyalty in football starts with the fans, try showing some!!

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7 minutes ago, irobinson said:

Beat Everton, Liverpool, Man City then the Geordies in the cup - all four good teams at home...we were on for the double - then King Charles bust his shoulder at Stoke...rest his history

Everton,Liverpool,SOUTHEND, Newcastle.

Did not play Man City in cup that year and it was Stoke at home that Charlie got injured

Just Saying !

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10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

@Mafiabob now can you see why I think the FA need to review their system?!

Even if this was an accident how can it not be classed as serious foul play as Butterfield's was?

Looks more like a very dangerous lunge than last ditch defending to me.

Feel free to extend the pic as to where that was taken...... you are telling me you would be sitting there politely if Keogh and co just watched a opposition player have a free shot from 6 yards out.

 

Its a last ditch tackle that unfortunately went horribly wrong for Thorne. Butterfield was reckless.

 

With regards the FA, yes somethings need to change with regards to reviews..... got any ideas? The thing I would change is to mic up referees. 

People can post up all the photos they like of that challenge, or anything else to try and prove a point if it's a pen/free kick/yellow/red etc..... the referee gets one look..... 

I also wonder how many screamed for a penalty and sending off when the incident occurred? I was there with 30K there..... no one shouted in real time did they or thought it was reckless.....

Trial by social media don't work. Changes in way we review, certainly..... changes in refereeing, definitely..... mistakes will be made, always. You're never going to get every single thing 100%.

Theyd be always fans who won't be pleased whatever outcomes they are. 

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1 hour ago, The Arch Deacon said:

Go to most at home, and was at the Wigan game. It was a lacklustre performance from all, JB and JR were no better or worse than anyone else in a Derby shirt. A typical end of Christmas period game with tired legs against a park the bus opposition. It was 6.5's across the board for Derby, (Carson the exception who was faultless). Nothing improved with the fresh legs of Bryson and Camara. WH, BJ, TI, you name it, all looked below par. But on the back of a ten match unbeaten run, 8 out of 10 wins, a climb from bottom 3 to top 6, I'm just not sure what you want to achieve by picking out individuals? You want more goals from Butterfield, so against Wigan he takes 6 shots, 2 on target, 4 blocked. You want him to get stuck in and make more tackles, so against Norwich he does, and receives a very debatable red. Had it been BJ rather than JB, you would have defended him to the hilt! I bow to your greater attendance record, well done! but that doesn't make you Alan Hanson. But this constant scapegoating at a time when we should be congratulating them on an impressive winning run and encouraging ALL the Derby team to go on a new winning run, is just boring. Mac clearly see's a quality footballer in both, particularly Butterfield. Hence why he's played the vast majority of minutes since his return. And when Derby struggle without him against Leeds and Reading, you'll be on his back for getting banned in the first place. Loyalty in football starts with the fans, try showing some!!

Half fan !

all rights reserved @eddie

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20 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Feel free to extend the pic as to where that was taken...... you are telling me you would be sitting there politely if Keogh and co just watched a opposition player have a free shot from 6 yards out.

 

Its a last ditch tackle that unfortunately went horribly wrong for Thorne. Butterfield was reckless.

 

With regards the FA, yes somethings need to change with regards to reviews..... got any ideas? The thing I would change is to mic up referees. 

People can post up all the photos they like of that challenge, or anything else to try and prove a point if it's a pen/free kick/yellow/red etc..... the referee gets one look..... 

I also wonder how many screamed for a penalty and sending off when the incident occurred? I was there with 30K there..... no one shouted in real time did they or thought it was reckless.....

Trial by social media don't work. Changes in way we review, certainly..... changes in refereeing, definitely..... mistakes will be made, always. You're never going to get every single thing 100%.

Theyd be always fans who won't be pleased whatever outcomes they are. 

So you think Butterfields challenge was more reckless than the one on Thorne?

If so, there's not much more that I can say. 

I know the referees get one look and I sympathise with them, especially the way media and managers treat them.

For a leg breaking challenge to go unpunished and a mis-timed slide tackle to get a 3 game ban, and another bad challenge to get a red card which is then retracted, something is wrong.

There has to be consistency and everyone has to playing to the same rules.

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11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So you think Butterfields challenge was more reckless than the one on Thorne?

If so, there's not much more that I can say. 

I know the referees get one look and I sympathise with them, especially the way media and managers treat them.

For a leg breaking challenge to go unpunished and a mis-timed slide tackle to get a 3 game ban, and another bad challenge to get a red card which is then retracted, something is wrong.

There has to be consistency and everyone has to playing to the same rules.

You are never going to get consistency in this game..... unless we stop the game every 2 minutes to take a look at something.

Totally agree reviews need to be handled better..... then what is the answer? 

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Also @G STAR RAM I seem to remember Mr Thorne accepting the apology of what happened etc.

Also, look at the reaction to that challenge from us lot, and the Butterfield one from us lot...... bias towards our own team clouds our own judgement.

Also would say admittedly I will be quite sympathetic to officials and certain parts of FA with regards refereeing..... fully accept I'm coming at it from that angle. 

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37 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

You are never going to get consistency in this game..... unless we stop the game every 2 minutes to take a look at something.

Totally agree reviews need to be handled better..... then what is the answer? 

Personally I would not have an independent review system as such.

Why not have the referees review their own matches, comment on why they have made decisions and let them say what they would have done differently.

By having a panel to review incidents in isolation, you may be removing other factors which may have influenced the referees decision at the time.

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36 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Also @G STAR RAM I seem to remember Mr Thorne accepting the apology of what happened etc.

Also, look at the reaction to that challenge from us lot, and the Butterfield one from us lot...... bias towards our own team clouds our own judgement.

Also would say admittedly I will be quite sympathetic to officials and certain parts of FA with regards refereeing..... fully accept I'm coming at it from that angle. 

I don't have much problem with the original red card decision. Don't think it was personally but could understand why ref would give it.

Cannot for the life of me understand how the West Ham red card and Butterfield red card can be reviewed on the same day and the ultimate conclusions reached.

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3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Personally I would not have an independent review system as such.

Why not have the referees review their own matches, comment on why they have made decisions and let them say what they would have done differently.

By having a panel to review incidents in isolation, you may be removing other factors which may have influenced the referees decision at the time.

I would be quite open to that.

I know they do that anyway, as a collective training tool, but you could open it up to review, as you say..... up to what ref thinks at end of day, and if he feels he was wrong after..... it should apply to the review of decision. 

The biggest thing I'd have though is still to mic/cam refs up like in Rugby. Not a cat in hells chance if it happening..... football clubs too powerful and wouldn't like it.

Would cut dissent in a heartbeat, and you'd probably hear ref explain his decision at the time. No hiding if you like. 

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3 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

I would be quite open to that.

I know they do that anyway, as a collective training tool, but you could open it up to review, as you say..... up to what ref thinks at end of day, and if he feels he was wrong after..... it should apply to the review of decision. 

The biggest thing I'd have though is still to mic/cam refs up like in Rugby. Not a cat in hells chance if it happening..... football clubs too powerful and wouldn't like it.

Would cut dissent in a heartbeat, and you'd probably hear ref explain his decision at the time. No hiding if you like. 

Wasn't it trialled before?

Seem to remember Tony Adams calling the ref a ******* cheat!

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