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Daz_The_Ram

'Fringe' Players...'Time to sell'

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OK ... so I'm sat listening to the Monday night phone in last night, a programme that incenses me anyway, because of it's zero content, and sub standard, inarticulate co-presenting from Craig 'I take valium and beta blockers before going on air' Ramage ... anyway ... 

So the topic of 'fringe' players came up, and the discussion moves onto who may or may not be on their way. I was amazed to hear Jason Shackell's name mentioned by some bloke who tweeted in? Time to sell apparently???

OK, it's a game of opinions yada-yadda, yawn, yawn ... but do me a favour. I really do get enraged with some of the blinkered thinking of certain sections of support. There are one or two undoubtedly that need to move on to get games ... who aren't anywhere near figuring even if we have an injury crisis of monumental proportions...but never Shackell.

Alex Pearce is doing magnificently well, having a fantastic season. No two ways about it, full marks. THAT is the only reason Shackell isn't walking  straight into the team. You don't just cast a guy of that ability and experience adrift, because one of his team mates is playing out of his skin. I have no idea what some supporters are smoking, I really don't.

Shackell is a top class centre half, played most games last year, a leader on the pitch who is being thwarted by Pearce's sheer brilliance ... he is not a 'fringe' player, not by any stretch, to describe him as such is criminal, and stupid.

He is our only capable cover in the position anyway at present, and when he does get back in the team, which he will, at some point, one way or another, the onus will then be on either Pearce or Keogh to win the shirt back again, they all know this. That is football. You don't just sell people who aren't in the starting eleven. To do that would be suicide.

Does this mean, that because Chris Baird is having an absolute stormer at right back, that we are classing Cyrus Christie as a 'fringe' player? Is it time to sell him? Never in a month of Sundays.

This game of football is a squad game. Wake up to it.

Or to put it another way ... Craig Ramage ... can you just wake up?

 

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He's a good defender but ... We don't need to keep shackell at this point because he's probably stewing on the bench. He doesn't see himself as a squad player I'm sure of that. May as well have Rawson as the backup and go find another young up and comer because we are short in that position . No good having a disgruntled veteran player sitting.

what amazes me is how people who've never played the game underestimate how much players at any level want to play especially when they have proven themselves to be good players! They also get very frustrated and angry when they are not especially when like in shacks case you've played in the premier league and even captained your side there. He must be hiding a massive frustration. 

And Cyrus is hurt, when he's fit he will fight for his place and win it back.  Baird has at the most one more season left in him at this level. Shacks too isn't getting any younger. 

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clarkeram7

The bottom line is he's too good and expensive to sit on the bench. I'd sell Shackell while he's still worth something and reinvest the money in a younger center half. People would argue it's nice to have that quality waiting in the wings but I just don't see him wanting that at his stage of his career. 

It sounds like we'll be getting 9mil for Martin and 1.5-2mil for Grant, so you'd imagine Steve will want to spend something. I'd be keeping a close eye on both Bamford and Wisdom, both haven't established themselves out on loan and are great long term investments. In using what we have its great to see the whole squad getting used particularly Camera and Weimann, with those two plus Ince and Russell I just don't see how Blackman will make the bench or Anya. One of the two will probably have to make way realistically.. 

With regards to Baird's form, it still wouldn't stop me buying Paterson. Him and Christie's contracts are up at the end of the season and despite good form we have to think whether both will be good enough if we eventually achieve promotion.

Small tweeks but nothing else please Steveeeee! We don't really have fringe players at the moment due to injuries but when the likes of Forsyth, Christie, Thorne, Lowe, Anya, Blackman return we certainly will!

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10 minutes ago, Ninos said:

He's a good defender but ... We don't need to keep shackell at this point because he's probably stewing on the bench. He doesn't see himself as a squad player I'm sure of that. May as well have Rawson as the backup and go find another young up and comer because we are short in that position . No good having a disgruntled veteran player sitting.

what amazes me is how people who've never played the game underestimate how much players at any level want to play especially when they have proven themselves to be good players! They also get very frustrated and angry when they are not especially when like in shacks case you've played in the premier league and even captained your side there. He must be hiding a massive frustration. 

And Cyrus is hurt, when he's fit he will fight for his place and win it back.  Baird has at the most one more season left in him at this level. Shacks too isn't getting any younger. 

I heard a whisper that @Daz_The_Ram has played, not sure if it is true though...

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I don't rate him that highly. He's great at defending when the ball's near him and he has to tackle or head the ball away, but he has limitations in most other areas. I'd probably keep him but I can see the argument for selling a player who's not getting game time, worth 7 figures and reinvesting that money somewhere else.

All the opposition have to do is stand a striker near him and mark our CDM for us to look totally clueless in getting the ball out of defence. The bloke can't pass. He has to open his body up like a cross just to pass it sideways slowly to Keogh, and his floaty long balls out of defence are easy to defend - if they haven't gone 3 yards above the intended target and out for a throw in.

If you're playing deep and expect to be on the back foot in most games, Shackell's your man. No surprise he was a key player for Burnley in the Premier League. But we're not that sort of team.

He's a better player than Buxton, but Buxton would be a better player for us. Should be him sat on the bench behind Pearce.

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17 minutes ago, Ninos said:

He's a good defender but ... We don't need to keep shackell at this point because he's probably stewing on the bench. He doesn't see himself as a squad player I'm sure of that. May as well have Rawson as the backup and go find another young up and comer because we are short in that position . No good having a disgruntled veteran player sitting.

what amazes me is how people who've never played the game underestimate how much players at any level want to play especially when they have proven themselves to be good players! They also get very frustrated and angry when they are not especially when like in shacks case you've played in the premier league and even captained your side there. He must be hiding a massive frustration. 

And Cyrus is hurt, when he's fit he will fight for his place and win it back.  Baird has at the most one more season left in him at this level. Shacks too isn't getting any younger. 

You're suggesting, that as the next in line to step in, that Shackell, as an experienced and perfectly rounded centre half, ISN'T likely to fight for his place? Of course Shackell wants to play. That is my point entirely!! He damn well knows how hard he has to work to get back in there. You just going to sell a player like that with something to prove are you? Frustration is good. it keeps players honest. 

And Baird has one season left does he? Well, thanks for letting me know. We might as well have a compulsory retirement age for footballers of 32 then, seeing as we're carrying so many old men. 

Shackell is the best centre half at the club as far as I'm concerned. You don't just jettison someone like that because they've been kept out for a few games, and then throw a kid in there and hope for the best. You're suggesting squad suicide.


 

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4 minutes ago, Duracell said:

I don't rate him that highly. He's great at defending when the ball's near him and he has to tackle or head the ball away, but he has limitations in most other areas. I'd probably keep him but I can see the argument for selling a player who's not getting game time, worth 7 figures and reinvesting that money somewhere else.

All the opposition have to do is stand a striker near him and mark our CDM for us to look totally clueless in getting the ball out of defence. The bloke can't pass. He has to open his body up like a cross just to pass it sideways slowly to Keogh, and his floaty long balls out of defence are easy to defend - if they haven't gone 3 yards above the intended target and out for a throw in.

If you're playing deep and expect to be on the back foot in most games, Shackell's your man. No surprise he was a key player for Burnley in the Premier League. But we're not that sort of team.

He's a better player than Buxton, but Buxton would be a better player for us. Should be him sat on the bench behind Pearce.

Buxton is gone, old news, in the history books. Deal with it. Not a patch on Shackell in any aspect of the game.

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25 minutes ago, richinspain said:

Did Ramage agree with the tweet (subconsciously wrote twit and had to change it)? Serious question.

I honestly can't remember, and can never decipher what he is saying anyway. 

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37 minutes ago, sage said:

Having said that I would sell Blackman, Weimann and Roos in a heartbeat

For me ... Blackman, and Camara (although I feel sorry for him) ... are the ones to move on for now, loan them out. The French boy especially looks destined not to figure prominently. Shame, as I've always felt he looked pretty useful. Weimann I think is underrated, although, it is undeniable that he hasn't produced much.

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1 minute ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Buxton is gone, old news, in the history books. Deal with it. Not a patch on Shackell in any aspect of the game.

Don't worry mate, I'm coping. Just  saying it's not always about outwright talent when building a team, and that's something our recruitment over the past couple of seasons has forgotten.

And sorry, no way is Shackell a better passer than Buxton, and I don't even think he's better at intercepting. More comanding aerially and a better tackler, but not better in every aspect of the game.

Anyway, Shackell's too pricey and too good to be sat on the bench. Surely in your experience in watching the game you must notice that situations like that very rarely last forever. He'll be looking to move.

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11 minutes ago, Duracell said:

Don't worry mate, I'm coping. Just  saying it's not always about outwright talent when building a team, and that's something our recruitment over the past couple of seasons has forgotten.

And sorry, no way is Shackell a better passer than Buxton, and I don't even think he's better at intercepting. More comanding aerially and a better tackler, but not better in every aspect of the game.

Anyway, Shackell's too pricey and too good to be sat on the bench. Surely in your experience in watching the game you must notice that situations like that very rarely last forever. He'll be looking to move.

It's a fair post is that, and you know very well my views on Buxton. A tryer, a fighter, all that stuff that we love, I just don't think Buxton is near to Shackell. You can't tell me that Buxton would ever captain a side in the Premier League. Passing, yeah fair enough, but nothing else.

Too pricey? Maybe. I think a lot of you underestimate Shackell's attitude. He'll be dying to get back in there. Lets not just knee-jerk and start getting rid of people of that ability.

Besides, the manager isn't that bloody daft.

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10 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Shackell is an over-rated, under-committed, drain on resources.

Not having that. Explain to me what you know about his personal level of commitment. You are generalising.

Over rated? Who is better, and would cost us less at this level? Names, and rationales please.

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1 minute ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Not having that. Explain to me what you know about his commitment.

you're a football man, you know when someone is committed and when someone is going through the motions. If Shackell wasn't so naturally adept and knowing where to stand when the opposition shoots, fans would have sussed him a long time ago.

I know when a player is or isn't committed. Shaun Barker was committed. Martin Albrechtsen wasn't. Jake Buxton was. Jason Shackell isn't.

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