Morris Leading Rebellion Against Football League

[rynny]

25 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I think it's probably due diligence and wanting a say on possibly better ventures. However these confidentiality clauses and the general lack of cooperation from the football league sound very suspicious to me.

At least I am not on my own in thinking that it is some what suspicious.

[brady1993]

11 minutes ago, rynny said:

At least I am not on my own in thinking that it is some what suspicious.

The reason why I'm scratching my head about it (and probably in Mel Morris's mind as well) is why is it necessary for an organization to hide information from members of said organization, when the information is pertinent to the financial well-being of the members. The only conclusions I can think of are of the shady variety but I'm looking at this situation as an outsider who doesn't have a background in finance or contractual law, so there is more than a fair chance that I'm missing something.

[brady1993]

30 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

49 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I'm not sure it would make economical sense to charge it the same as a match ticket.

 

 If streaming of games was priced at say, 75% of cheapest match tickets when not on TV - thatd be a way to sell it as "an alternative for fans who cannot attend" and not undermining actual attendance. 

Might not be the way to maximize revenue but it might be an easier sell to the EFL 

Maybe but that still would be very expensive (roughly £22) and I'd speculate the club would make more money at lower price.

[RadioactiveWaste]

8 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Maybe but that still would be very expensive (roughly £22) and I'd speculate the club would make more money at lower price.

I think the league are very wary about the online vs match day attendance aspect - same as they were with TV, hence no TV matches at 3pm Saturday. 

But yes, I'm sure they'd get far more takers at a lower price, if the price is comparable to match tickets, it'll only be die hards go for it. 

[simsdcfc]

So basicly will you be able to watch live derby games every week on the internet and just pay a subscription ?

[angieram]

As we know how much the clubs get from this deal, presumably the issue is around how much the league's share is? 

Also around the potential for clubs to generate extra revenue from the digital rights? The fact that this is controlled by the EFL was certainly mentioned at the website meeting last week.

 I would hope that we are suggesting a better deal for all clubs, rather than a go-it alone. 

[brady1993]

13 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I think the league are very wary about the online vs match day attendance aspect - same as they were with TV, hence no TV matches at 3pm Saturday. 

But yes, I'm sure they'd get far more takers at a lower price, if the price is comparable to match tickets, it'll only be die hards go for it. 

I think you're probably right that that is what they are worried but I do think it's probably backwards thinking by them. I doubt there would be a significant impact on attendance. 

Our televised matches this season have been:

Aston Villa (H) - attendance 31205, 2370 above our average

Burton (A) - attendance 6746, 1751 above their average

Newcastle (H) - attendance 30405, 1570 above our average

Wolverhampton (A) - 19858, 645 below their average.

Now obviously this isn't a big sample size and is slightly skewed by Sky picking 'big' games but in these cases there was seemingly no or little bearing on attendance when the game was televised. Or look at something like glastonbury, which is completely televised for free on the bbc yet that has no effect on attendance. People go to the game for the experience of being at the game, the atmosphere, the electric thrill that can only be truly experienced when you are in the crowd. I highly doubt the people who would might watch online would have gone to the game if that watching online wasn't option. Most likely the people watching online either can't get to the game due to circumstance, they can't afford to go or they are away fans. I can even see this being a net positive on attending in person because it might enable the club to lower ticket prices because of the increased alternate revenue stream.

[Ash]

Something needs to happen. They mentioned this on the guardian podcast (can't recommend it enough if you've never listened) and some championship ticket prices are ludicrous for the 'product' on the pitch (£40 at weds for a half empty stadium). Needs a rethink and mel might just be the man to take this forward. 

[Will Hughes Hair]

3 hours ago, reveldevil said:

The EFL do seem very inconsistent when it comes to new tech, it was only 2 years ago they were telling everyone how they were linking all the grounds in the league to a fibre optic network.

http://mobile.efl.com/news/article/20140814awaygamesbeamingrg-1828606.aspx

One game beemed back, and not a word since!

One thing I'd say, I think the collective distribution of rights money is one of the strengths of English football, and a major reason why we can support 92 full time league clubs in the 1st place.

Any move to overturn this and instead operate an everyman for himself policy would cause significant long term harm to English football.

It's a rare example of collective good outweighing individual interests.

However, if Mel, as a person with a great track record when it comes to innovation, can see a way for the league as a whole to enrich itself, the league would be foolish not to at least listen to him.

Maybe I'm having a crap week, but the highlighted statement truly depresses me.  On the bright side Maggie Thatcher will be delighted from beyond the grave.

[uttoxram75]

2 hours ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

Maybe I'm having a crap week, but the highlighted statement truly depresses me.  On the bright side Maggie Thatcher will be delighted from beyond the grave.

I can't imagine Margaret Thatcher ever being delighted. She was the most miserable cow ever....

[North East Ram]

7 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

I can't imagine Margaret Thatcher ever being delighted. She was the most miserable cow ever....

She seemed quite delighted and happy when she was screwing the northern working classes into the dirt. 

[alexxxxx]

Mel is right. Last night's Newcastle v Forest game will more than likely have had way more viewers (casual and supporters) than the Monday Night Boro v Hull.

I still can't believe there isn't enough money to send more than one camera to each championship game not on TV. The highlights on TV are nearly unwatchable.

 

[G-Ram]

Id love to watch every derby game from the comfort of my own home... would suit me with not living in Derby and with other commitments. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

11 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

Id love to watch every derby game from the comfort of my own home... would suit me with not living in Derby and with other commitments. 

I'm in a similar boat, more often than not in Glasgow every weekend, getting to matches requires some level of cosmic alignment.

[G-Ram]

21 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I'm in a similar boat, more often than not in Glasgow every weekend, getting to matches requires some level of cosmic alignment.

Big time i probably go to 3-4 games a season then either listen to the rest of the games on ramsplayer or just watch us when on we are on sky. Im Just at an age where going to games is a nightmare & there are other priorities in life (young kids). Id probably start going again when im older and can get a season ticket and have less priorities & more time

However If i could watch everygame online i would. Im sure the Rams abroad ir not local would. 

I dont think being able to watch everygame online would impact on attendances. When were in the prem you'll be able to watch nearly every 3pm saturday kick offs if you google hard enough 

[Will Hughes Hair]

17 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

I can't imagine Margaret Thatcher ever being delighted. She was the most miserable cow ever....

It's the misguided belief by sections of the working class that a free market economy intrinsically works for them that worries me. Because in truth it's intrinsically designed to keep the wealthy, wealthy.

For balance I'm going to list the top 30 (of fifty)  reasons that Brits are most proud of Britain (sourced for balance from the low grade and right wing Daily Express)...

1. The countryside
2. Fish and chips
3. Roast dinners
4. Tea
5. English history
6. Breakfast fry-up
7. NHS
8. Strawberries
9. Lake District
10. The beaches
1 1. Cream teas
12. Historic architecture
13. The BBC
14. Beer gardens
15. The Queen
16. Big Ben
17. Proud heritage
18. Wimbledon
19. Stonehenge
20. Buckingham Palace
21. London’s red buses
22. Cornish pasties
23. Shakespeare
24. James Bond
25. The Spitfire
26. Sir Winston Churchill
27. Good music scene
28. Stephen Fry
29. Real ale
30. Black cabs

Only number 25 can realistically be attributed a free maket econony, and I'm not sure that entirely holds water.  Yet @reveldevil and millions of others orchestrated by Boris Johnson, David Cameron, George Osborne, Maggie Thatcher  and others thinks salvation lies in giving Rupert Murdoch more power citing the power of a free market economy.

To bring it back on topic.  Go for it Mel, use the collective voice of a hundred thousand Rams fans, to question the openess and transparency of EFL deals because I'm convinced (even as a Sky customer) the free market economy is being used to disadvantage the masses.

 

 

Oh, and Maggie would be delighted.  She'd just cackle gently while stroking her white pussy 

 

 

[Rev]

.

2 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

It's the misguided belief by sections of the working class that a free market economy intrinsically works for them that worries me. Because in truth it's intrinsically designed to keep the wealthy, wealthy.

For balance I'm going to list the top 30 (of fifty)  reasons that Brits are most proud of Britain (sourced for balance from the low grade and right wing Daily Express)...

1. The countryside
2. Fish and chips
3. Roast dinners
4. Tea
5. English history
6. Breakfast fry-up
7. NHS
8. Strawberries
9. Lake District
10. The beaches
1 1. Cream teas
12. Historic architecture
13. The BBC
14. Beer gardens
15. The Queen
16. Big Ben
17. Proud heritage
18. Wimbledon
19. Stonehenge
20. Buckingham Palace
21. London’s red buses
22. Cornish pasties
23. Shakespeare
24. James Bond
25. The Spitfire
26. Sir Winston Churchill
27. Good music scene
28. Stephen Fry
29. Real ale
30. Black cabs

Only number 25 can realistically be attributed a free maket econony, and I'm not sure that entirely holds water.  Yet @reveldevil and millions of others orchestrated by Boris Johnson, David Cameron, George Osborne, Maggie Thatcher  and others thinks salvation lies in giving Rupert Murdoch more power citing the power of a free market economy.

To bring it back on topic.  Go for it Mel, use the collective voice of a hundred thousand Rams fans, to question the openess and transparency of EFL deals because I'm convinced (even as a Sky customer) the free market economy is being used to disadvantage the masses.

 

 

Oh, and Maggie would be delighted.  She'd just cackle gently while stroking her white pussy 

 

 

Wtf are you on about?

I'm talking of the collectivism of the league in distributing TV money according to league position being preferable to a everyman for himself TV rights deal that would see the biggest clubs cream off even more money for themselves at the expense of smaller rivals.

You might have Will Hughes hair, but you ain't got his brains!

[Will Hughes Hair]

43 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

.

Wtf are you on about?

I'm talking of the collectivism of the league in distributing TV money according to league position being preferable to a everyman for himself TV rights deal that would see the biggest clubs cream off even more money for themselves at the expense of smaller rivals.

You might have Will Hughes hair, but you ain't got his brains!

I think wtf I'm on about is you're assertion that this would be one of the only times that the principle of a collective voice delivered a benefit?  I think I'm more disappointed because 99.9% of the time I think you talk sense 

[Rev]

9 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

I think wtf I'm on about is you're assertion that this would be one of the only times that the principle of a collective voice delivered a benefit?  I think I'm more disappointed because 99.9% of the time I think you talk sense 

I've just read back to see how what you're on about, and now I see it.

I meant the collective good of football, rather than society as a whole.

Seeing my online persona grouped in with Cameron, Osbourne, Johnson and Thatcher was too much to take.

Luckily I'm wearing a black armband for comrade Fidel, so I had something to hand to mop up the tears!

I'll be more careful in my use of language in future, possibly!

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

You could argue all the food and drink ones to economics, and I'd argue the spitfire as military industrial complex rather than free market (although, granted, there was a fair amount of "at risk" development went into the spitfire before government procurement got interested - they felt the Hurricane was good enough and that "the bomber would always get through" ) 

In general, I believe there is a place for collective bargaining and organized counter balance to pure economic forces, but what the right balance is its impossible to ever really settle on. I feel we've given to much to free market forces in this country, but that's my personal view. 

In terms of Mel vs EFL contracts, I suspect the EFL know its not a great deal as sky have a lot of power in these contracts, but the EFL stance is to try to negotiate to benefit all the clubs. I can well imagine they want commercial confidence precisely because the bigger clubs lose out and will try to force the hand of the league if they get their hands on the full details. 

Overall, I put this as I can see each position, I think in the end Mel's point of view will prevail, it'll be good for Derby fans, but I think the overall result may hurt small clubs a lot.