Johnny Russell

[Comrade 86]

On 11/27/2016 at 17:38, England Ram said:

This thread encapsulates our fans in a nutshell. 

Someone raising a valid discussion point regarding the current form of one of our players.....not slagging him off........and some chirp in with the response that he's being used as a scapegoat, or people are looking at something to moan about.

Others reply in a balanced way.

Welcome to the world of a football forum. 

Player ratings yesterday would have been lucky to give Russell a 5. 

I like Johnny, nothing to scapegoat as we won etc, however over the last few weeks and yesterday again Russell was very below par. Doesn't make him a bad player it makes him out of form. 

The point is does he need dropping. 

I'd say yes, something isn't right and he's not the same player. It usually does him good and I'm sure if you asked him he'd say it himself. 

Assessing a player and having an opinion is what this place is about, disagree by all means, but give me a balanced response to the points I make rather than chirping in with the 'scapegoat' line. 

He looks like he's blowing out his arse most of the time, he hides from the ball, his touch is currrenty poor and his passing just as wayward.

Yes, he still runs around a bit and looks busy, but is making our forward play unbalanced. The threat is Bent & Ince, it should be a front 3 but currently we are playing with a front 2 1/4. 

So id drop him for Wigan and possibly longer until he regains whatever it is he's lacking at the moment. 

 

Whoscored ratings appear to show the opposite pattern, that is that since Mac returned, his form has improved with 3 of his 4 highest ratings (from his last 10 games) coming in the last 4 matches and a noticeable upturn since the return of McClaren.

Derby 0 : 2 Newcastle United                              6.05
Cardiff 0 : 2 Derby                                                6.80
Reading 1 : 1 Derby                                             5.90
Derby 1 : 0 Leeds                                                 7.01
Derby 0 : 0 Brentford                                            6.71
Huddersfield 1 : 0 Derby                                       6.36
Derby 2 : 0 Sheffield Wednesday                         6.94
Wolverhampton Wanderers 2 : 3 Derby               6.69
Derby 3 : 0 Rotherham                                         7.22
Derby 1 : 0 Norwich                                              7.21

His average for all performances is 6.73 which he has matched or bettered in 4 out of his last 5 games.

For comparative purposes, Will Hughes stats for his last 10 games read, 7,23. 7.36, 6,53, 7.26. 6.33, 6.56, 8.12, 7.62 and 6.83. His median is 7.11 which he has matched in 3 out of his last 5 games.

As regards possible replacements:

Anya's average is 6.48 which he has bettered in 2 of his last 5 games, Weimann's average is 6.11 achieved only once in his last 5 games whereas Razza has surpassed his 6.39 average in 2 of the 3 games he's played this season. It can be argued that both Anya and Weimann have had less game time, but Razza has had less. Equally, it can be argued that JR is being played out of position whihc makes his recent form all the more admirable.

Perhaps your perception of Johnny's current form is more subjective than you think? Equally, perhaps the 'chirps' your post refers to are based more on factual evidence than your counter argument? To support this line of thinking, two of the most maligned players on this forum are Tom Ince and Richard Keogh whose medians are 7.20 and 7.07 respectively. Jacob Butterfield, who receives very little of the same vitriol has a median of 6.78 so...... perhaps there is weight to the scapegoat argument after all.

Hopefully this post meets your 'balanced opinion' requirement 

 

[England Ram]

49 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Whoscored ratings appear to show the opposite pattern, that is that since Mac returned, his form has improved with 3 of his 4 highest ratings (from his last 10 games) coming in the last 4 matches and a noticeable upturn since the return of McClaren.

Derby 0 : 2 Newcastle United                              6.05
Cardiff 0 : 2 Derby                                                6.80
Reading 1 : 1 Derby                                             5.90
Derby 1 : 0 Leeds                                                 7.01
Derby 0 : 0 Brentford                                            6.71
Huddersfield 1 : 0 Derby                                       6.36
Derby 2 : 0 Sheffield Wednesday                         6.94
Wolverhampton Wanderers 2 : 3 Derby               6.69
Derby 3 : 0 Rotherham                                         7.22
Derby 1 : 0 Norwich                                              7.21

His average for all performances is 6.73 which he has matched or bettered in 4 out of his last 5 games.

For comparative purposes, Will Hughes stats for his last 10 games read, 7,23. 7.36, 6,53, 7.26. 6.33, 6.56, 8.12, 7.62 and 6.83. His median is 7.11 which he has matched in 3 out of his last 5 games.

As regards possible replacements:

Anya's average is 6.48 which he has bettered in 2 of his last 5 games, Weimann's average is 6.11 achieved only once in his last 5 games whereas Razza has surpassed his 6.39 average in 2 of the 3 games he's played this season. It can be argued that both Anya and Weimann have had less game time, but Razza has had less. Equally, it can be argued that JR is being played out of position whihc makes his recent form all the more admirable.

Perhaps your perception of Johnny's current form is more subjective than you think? Equally, perhaps the 'chirps' your post refers to are based more on factual evidence than your counter argument? To support this line of thinking, two of the most maligned players on this forum are Tom Ince and Richard Keogh whose medians are 7.20 and 7.07 respectively. Jacob Butterfield, who receives very little of the same vitriol has a median of 6.78 so...... perhaps there is weight to the scapegoat argument after all.

Hopefully this post meets your 'balanced opinion' requirement 

 

Now that's how to respond. 

Well done Sir!

[England Ram]

On 28/11/2016 at 10:16, Clarity said:

In recent games, I think the biggest issue with Russell is his positioning: He's playing too deep and too centrally.

When we look to break, he isn't anywhere near high enough up the pitch. Is this tactical? I thought it had to be, until I heard McClaren shout: "Johnny! push on!", which makes me think McClaren wants him to play higher up the pitch.

Russell's defensive work is a true asset coming from a wide man, but currently, its having an adverse affect on his offensive game, and that's the most important part of his game. 

And this also is a good argument. The heat maps seem to justify this argument against Norwich. 

[Ambitious]

I haven't seen much of Russell this season, but this thread is one that pops up every 6-9 months. 

Russell on his day is an excellent player, which is why he's so highly rated by those that don't watch him week in, week out. I wouldn't say he's necessarily a 'confidence' player as he rarely lets his head drop, but he does seem to go on droughts where nothing much happens for him. 

Then again, he will have three months where he's suddenly one of our best players - pitching in with goals and assists. 

Last season, he got 9 goals and 10 assists (according to Transfermrkt). Four goals and three assists came in the last six games. He also got four assists and one goal in a spell of five games in the middle of the season. The rest came at the start, which was fairly steady, however he went a full 10 games without producing a goal or an assist. 

He will have a spell this season where he turns people's opinions around, but I do agree that we have to give those on the bench a chance if he isn't performing. Anya, Vydra, Weimann and Camara are more than capable.

[1967Ram]

On 28/11/2016 at 09:46, mumblemumble said:

Don't think you can say started the move, I'd say that was Johnson for giving it Hughes in space to run on into.

I think you probably can, although Lowe had the first touch. As I said in the other JT thread:

There was a brilliant bit of improvisation from Russell at the beginning of the move which led to Johnson's winning goal on Saturday. I think a lot of people missed it.

Lowe won the ball, played a one-two with Russell, then gave it back to Russell who took two Norwich players out of the game with an excellent chip over them to Johnson who headed it on to Hughes. Hughes surged forward, nearly lost it, but cleverly laid it off for Johnson to smash home. It was a good move which I don't think was shown from the beginning on 5 or Sky Sports.

[G STAR RAM]

On 29/11/2016 at 21:14, 86 points said:

Whoscored ratings appear to show the opposite pattern, that is that since Mac returned, his form has improved with 3 of his 4 highest ratings (from his last 10 games) coming in the last 4 matches and a noticeable upturn since the return of McClaren.

Derby 0 : 2 Newcastle United                              6.05
Cardiff 0 : 2 Derby                                                6.80
Reading 1 : 1 Derby                                             5.90
Derby 1 : 0 Leeds                                                 7.01
Derby 0 : 0 Brentford                                            6.71
Huddersfield 1 : 0 Derby                                       6.36
Derby 2 : 0 Sheffield Wednesday                         6.94
Wolverhampton Wanderers 2 : 3 Derby               6.69
Derby 3 : 0 Rotherham                                         7.22
Derby 1 : 0 Norwich                                              7.21

His average for all performances is 6.73 which he has matched or bettered in 4 out of his last 5 games.

For comparative purposes, Will Hughes stats for his last 10 games read, 7,23. 7.36, 6,53, 7.26. 6.33, 6.56, 8.12, 7.62 and 6.83. His median is 7.11 which he has matched in 3 out of his last 5 games.

As regards possible replacements:

Anya's average is 6.48 which he has bettered in 2 of his last 5 games, Weimann's average is 6.11 achieved only once in his last 5 games whereas Razza has surpassed his 6.39 average in 2 of the 3 games he's played this season. It can be argued that both Anya and Weimann have had less game time, but Razza has had less. Equally, it can be argued that JR is being played out of position whihc makes his recent form all the more admirable.

Perhaps your perception of Johnny's current form is more subjective than you think? Equally, perhaps the 'chirps' your post refers to are based more on factual evidence than your counter argument? To support this line of thinking, two of the most maligned players on this forum are Tom Ince and Richard Keogh whose medians are 7.20 and 7.07 respectively. Jacob Butterfield, who receives very little of the same vitriol has a median of 6.78 so...... perhaps there is weight to the scapegoat argument after all.

Hopefully this post meets your 'balanced opinion' requirement 

 

That is very interesting to say the least!

I would be very surprised if anyone agreed that he put a 7.21 performance in last Saturday.

[brady1993]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

That is very interesting to say the least!

I would be very surprised if anyone agreed that he put a 7.21 performance in last Saturday.

I think it probably has something to do with he actually instigated 3 moves that lead to chances. There were two cross field balls he played one to Bent and one to Ince that directly lead to chances, and his clever flick inside to Johnson took about 4 Norwich players out of the game in the buildup to Johnson's goal.

In response to your original post, personally I think Russell was ok on saturday and has been playing at an ok level since coming back into the side. I don't think he is playing at his best, and I do think the rest of team are probably outperforming but that doesn't make his performances poor. 

However I realise that is probably the minority opinion and I have been second guessing myself about my view of his performance due the number of people (a lot of whom have opinions I respect) saying he was poor. Maybe I'm just wrong on this one. I do agree with those saying he tends to play better on the right and I think those saying he plays better with Martin probably have a point too because in both situations he has more freedom to run in behind in more central areas.

I do wonder if McClaren's actually rates much to Russell's potential replacements. In McClaren's previous tenure he frequently rotated his wide forwards, and would often sub them around the 60 minute mark. But Anya and Wieman have found there playtime extremely limited. Anya was dropped after one game for Russell, made a few cameos from the bench but now seems to have fallen behind Wieman in the pecking order. I have a sneaky suspicion this might be the reason why he has been sticking with Russell, because McClaren thinks an ok Russell performance is more beneficial to the team than what Anya or Wieman could give.

[Rammed79]

I maybe on my own here but I wouldn't be too fussed if he moved on at the end of the season he's been at Derby a while now and if I was to sum up his time here I would say disappointing he tries his best and yes has good moments but I think I would prefer to give someone else a go.

 

[dajstrawb]

Russell starts because he contributes to the phases of play that our game is based around. Even if he's not providing an assist, or slotting it in himself, he's a key part of the game we play. Players such as Anya and Camara starting could change the entire complexity and approach of the team. The 433 which Mac sets out requires the 2 wide players to be 'clever' on the ball. I'm not saying Anya and Camara aren't they're just not a great fit for it. Would Mac have signed either of them? 95% sure not

[BobbyD]

17 minutes ago, Ram79 said:

I maybe on my own here but I wouldn't be too fussed if he moved on at the end of the season he's been at Derby a while now and if I was to sum up his time here I would say disappointing he tries his best and yes has good moments but I think I would prefer to give someone else a go.

 

Jesus - lets hope he doesn't read this.

What an appalling, insulting and disrespectful indictment of one of our best players over the last few years and one of our longest serving players.

God help us with support like this.

You just despair. 

[Rev]

3 hours ago, brady1993 said:

I think it probably has something to do with he actually instigated 3 moves that lead to chances. There were two cross field balls he played one to Bent and one to Ince that directly lead to chances, and his clever flick inside to Johnson took about 4 Norwich players out of the game in the buildup to Johnson's goal.

In response to your original post, personally I think Russell was ok on saturday and has been playing at an ok level since coming back into the side. I don't think he is playing at his best, and I do think the rest of team are probably outperforming but that doesn't make his performances poor. 

However I realise that is probably the minority opinion and I have been second guessing myself about my view of his performance due the number of people (a lot of whom have opinions I respect) saying he was poor. Maybe I'm just wrong on this one. I do agree with those saying he tends to play better on the right and I think those saying he plays better with Martin probably have a point too because in both situations he has more freedom to run in behind in more central areas.

I do wonder if McClaren's actually rates much to Russell's potential replacements. In McClaren's previous tenure he frequently rotated his wide forwards, and would often sub them around the 60 minute mark. But Anya and Wieman have found there playtime extremely limited. Anya was dropped after one game for Russell, made a few cameos from the bench but now seems to have fallen behind Wieman in the pecking order. I have a sneaky suspicion this might be the reason why he has been sticking with Russell, because McClaren thinks an ok Russell performance is more beneficial to the team than what Anya or Wieman could give.

I've been wondering about the subs too, but maybe that was Simmo's influence?

I remember when he was appointed 1st time round a relative who lives near Boro telling me the natives disliked him towards the end, because of how conservative he was as a manager.

I think it was Watford that 1st season where he gave the credit for the late winner to Simpson, who persuaded him to go for the win rather than settle for the draw, time will tell I suppose.

[Purpleram]

22 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

Jesus - lets hope he doesn't read this.

What an appalling, insulting and disrespectful indictment of one of our best players over the last few years and one of our longest serving players.

God help us with support like this.

You just despair. 

I know, fancy having an opinion about a Derby player on a Derby forum. Disgusting.

[BobbyD]

15 minutes ago, Purpleram said:

I know, fancy having an opinion about a Derby player on a Derby forum. Disgusting.

Spot on with the word disgusting, well said 

[Rammed79]

2 hours ago, BobbyD said:

Jesus - lets hope he doesn't read this.

What an appalling, insulting and disrespectful indictment of one of our best players over the last few years and one of our longest serving players.

God help us with support like this.

You just despair. 

Chill out its my opinion not yours I wasn't being disrespectful I just don't think he is as good as some think and could do with a fresh start somewhere else.

[brady1993]

2 hours ago, reveldevil said:

I've been wondering about the subs too, but maybe that was Simmo's influence?

I remember when he was appointed 1st time round a relative who lives near Boro telling me the natives disliked him towards the end, because of how conservative he was as a manager.

I think it was Watford that 1st season where he gave the credit for the late winner to Simpson, who persuaded him to go for the win rather than settle for the draw, time will tell I suppose.

You might be right about it being Simmo's influence, it's hard to say right now and I don't think we will know for sure until McClaren has had chance to make a few transfers.

With regards McClaren's conservatism, I think that attitude was changed quite a bit by his time in the Netherlands as seemingly has on his whole football outlook.

[Rev]

5 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

You might be right about it being Simmo's influence, it's hard to say right now and I don't think we will know for sure until McClaren has had chance to make a few transfers.

With regards McClaren's conservatism, I think that attitude was changed quite a bit by his time in the Netherlands as seemingly has on his whole football outlook.

You may be right regarding his Dutch experience, it struck me as an odd comment at the time given what I'd seen with my own eyes.

[uttoxram75]

2 hours ago, reveldevil said:

You may be right regarding his Dutch experience, it struck me as an odd comment at the time given what I'd seen with my own eyes.

I hope its right. Mac's conservative approach held us back in his 2nd season with us last time.

I don't know why because when he lets the team off the leash its a thing of beauty.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Russell is what he is, likeable, a trier, and on form a good forward at this level. 

Is he better than any of the others? Its entirety dependent on how they are all doing at that time, I'd take an in form Anya over out of form Russell and in form Russell over out of form Anya (etc). 

McClaren is I think, quite conservative as a manager, hence players he knows/trusts getting first dibs when he came back and so on. He has his limitations as manager, but he has his strengths too (particularly coaching). 

I do think the two starting wide men should do the give it all for an hour and get subbed routine we had last time Mac was here, the 4/5 in the squad get regular chances to prove they should get the first nod, keeps em all sharp n fresh.