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Johnny Russell and a perceived lack of end product


brady1993

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52 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

You say this but last year was Russell's best return in terms of goals and assists. Under Wassell particularly he was played very well in a lot of games.

Camara hasn't been favored by any manager at the club suggesting he might just not be good enough plus isn't he still injured ?

Weimann I could maybe see an argument for rotating in but I don't really see what he gives you over Russell.

Camara hasn't spent more than 3 months with any of the 3 managers he has played under. 

And I prefer Weimann over Russell just because Weimann can finish occasionally. Where as Russell is very poor infront of goal.

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5 minutes ago, RamsPolls said:

Camara hasn't spent more than 3 months with any of the 3 managers he has played under. 

And I prefer Weimann over Russell just because Weimann can finish occasionally. Where as Russell is very poor infront of goal.

Whilst I concede your general point that perhaps he needs a little more time before ruling him out completely, he did have longer than 3 months under Wassell and Pearson (albeit preseason time in this case and I will concede that Pearson's judgement is nothing to go by). I just think it's telling that he's frequently been pushed to one side.

You say that about Weimann but Russell scored more last season (Russell scored 10 in 47 appearances, Weimann scored 4 in 31 appearances) compared to Wiemann . Now you could reasonably argue that Wiemann had less game time, which is true, and in fact if you compare them on goals scored per 90 minutes (to mitigate sub appearances) they both scored 0.3 goals per 90 minutes with Russell maintaining that over a longer period of time.  So I'm not sure how you can conclude that Weimann is the bigger goal threat. Plus this doesn't take into account that Russell also contributed 8 assists as opposed to Weimann's 0.

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5 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Whilst I concede your general point that perhaps he needs a little more time before ruling him out completely, he did have longer than 3 months under Wassell and Pearson (albeit preseason time in this case and I will concede that Pearson's judgement is nothing to go by). I just think it's telling that he's frequently been pushed to one side.

He didn't have 3 months under any manager? 

He had less than a month with Clement - Signed 24th January, Clement sacked 8th February.

He then had just under 3 months with Wassall from beginning of February to beginning of May.

Then he had 1-2 months with Pearson before he was injured in the Burton game at the end of August. 

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3 minutes ago, RamsPolls said:

He didn't have 3 months under any manager? 

He had less than a month with Clement - Signed 24th January, Clement sacked 8th February.

He then had just under 3 months with Wassall from beginning of February to beginning of May.

Then he had 1-2 months with Pearson before he was injured in the Burton game at the end of August. 

Wassell took over on the 8th of February and his final day in charge was the 17th of May (Play-off second leg) which is over three months. 

I will concede about Pearson though because I'd forgot that Camara has been injured since the end of august.

This is all slightly pedantic though (on both our parts) because I already acknowledged the general point you were trying to make about the reason he perhaps hasn't forced his way into the first team is in part due to the frequent change of management since January. :)

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3 hours ago, RamsPolls said:

Camara hasn't spent more than 3 months with any of the 3 managers he has played under. 

And I prefer Weimann over Russell just because Weimann can finish occasionally. Where as Russell is very poor infront of goal.

I mean Russell scored more than Weimann last season and Villa fans were notorious in their criticism of Weimann's finishing. I don't see how you can prefer a player over something that is quite simply not true. That's like me saying I prefer Stern John over Messi because of how much more clinical Stern John is, I'm obviously wrong. I'm being obnoxious but you're just ignoring facts.

I'd like to see Weimann more but he just doesn't have the end product, which is why our past few coaches haven't consistently picked him and why we're still not starting him. 

That said his and Russell's intensity is something you really need within the squad. They're definitely an asset with the way the game seems to be going now with high intensity pressing. As we saw in the 2nd leg against Hull, when they really get in your face they can cause serious problems regardless of their lack of quality in other areas.

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38 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

I mean Russell scored more than Weimann last season and Villa fans were notorious in their criticism of Weimann's finishing. I don't see how you can prefer a player over something that is quite simply not true. That's like me saying I prefer Stern John over Messi because of how much more clinical Stern John is, I'm obviously wrong. I'm being obnoxious but you're just ignoring facts.

I prefer Weimann over Russell. My opinion. End of. 

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12 minutes ago, RamsPolls said:

I prefer Weimann over Russell. My opinion. End of. 

That's fair enough. I like them both but prefer Russell due to the time he's spent at the club and him being statistically the better player. Each to their own.

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I absolutely guarantee you that someone else will come in for Russell soon, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Anya, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Blackman, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for the, probably Russell, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Anya, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Blackman, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for the, probably Russell, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Anya, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Blackman, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for the, probably Russell, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Anya, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Blackman, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for the, probably Russell, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

I think.

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2 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

 

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Blackman, and start playing well.

I think.

And then we'll wake up.

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10 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

I absolutely guarantee you that someone else will come in for Russell soon, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Anya, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Blackman, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for the, probably Russell, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Anya, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Blackman, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for the, probably Russell, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Anya, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Blackman, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for the, probably Russell, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Anya, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Blackman, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for the, probably Russell, and start playing well.

Then they'll drop off form and there'll be a thread like this made about them. Then someone will come in for them, probably Weimann, and start playing well.

I think.

I think you missed a final one where Weimann drops form and then Anya comes in for him! 

 

Other than that, you're spot on bro! 

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22 hours ago, Lambchop said:

He hasn't played well for the last two seasons. When he gets the ball I always have feeling he'll lose it almost straight away, and he usually does; misplaced passes, blind alleys, duff crosses, wild shots. I dread seeing his name on the team sheet as much as I used to dread seeing Sammon's, it's that bad

No it's not. One of the biggest overreactions I've ever seen...

Remind me of the time Sammon got 10 goals and 8 assists in a single season for us... Sammon couldn't match his goal input playing upfront, let alone on the wing. 

Russell's decision making is what lets him down; he's clearly talented as he's demonstrated for us on multiple occasions however he will choose the wrong option most of the time. When he gets it right though, he's one of our most effective players. It's now McClaren's job to try and get that out of him every game.

Russell won the game vs Leeds for us this season, sometimes being in the right place at the right time is a skill in itself. His pace also allowed him to get to the ball first. I'd put money on, that no other player on our team (barring maybe Vydra) would have been able to score that chance!

 

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5 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Remind me of the time Sammon got 10 goals and 8 assists in a single season for us... Sammon couldn't match his goal input playing upfront, let alone on the wing. 

To be fair, he once got 9 goals and 6 assists in one season, so not far off :lol:

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I like Russell a very good championship wide man, inconsistent yes they all are, but he helps the flow of our team in other areas which is why he gets the nod on the pitch. I have seen nothing from wieman to suggest he is better deployed out wide where Russell is and camara we simply do not see as for anya a good team player ultimately without the level of goals.

altough when I watch Russell he looks shattered by 70 mins which makes you wonder about our pre season 

now we have mac back russell is one of those who those who will get a lot of game time like most of the wide men

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12 hours ago, tinman said:

It's not perceived lack of end product. There is a lack of end product. 

No assists, one goal, 8 chances created all season. 

Compare that to Craig Conway at Blackburn for example. 1 goal, 2 assists and 24 chances created. 

The stats tell only half a story. Johnny rattles defenders, he makes them nervous and make hurried passes. He makes the other side make mistakes which has a value of its own that the stats don't show. 

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I go back a fair way , to when we were the best in the country, got robbed in the European cup Semis and thrashed the likes of Arsenal . Its a good job we never had the likes of Facebook , Tw@tter etc in those days. I remember a certain "Spather footed lad" who went on to become Captain of the European Champions down the road who would have come in for some stick from a few, but we always missed him when he was out injured . What would we have made of the abortive attempt to sign a certain Ian Storey-Moore from the Gumps ? ......or of Tommy Doc's clear out and his "replacements" ?    I know a lot of you were not lucky enough to be around when we beat the best regularly but please think before you start to pick holes in our current crop. I've no doubt they read peoples posts and it can't do much for their confidence .  Get behind them and you never know, the twelfth man just might spur them on . Sorrh if you think I'm full of wind/cr@p .........just saying it as I see it ?

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2 hours ago, Wignall12 said:

I go back a fair way , to when we were the best in the country, got robbed in the European cup Semis and thrashed the likes of Arsenal . Its a good job we never had the likes of Facebook , Tw@tter etc in those days. I remember a certain "Spather footed lad" who went on to become Captain of the European Champions down the road who would have come in for some stick from a few, but we always missed him when he was out injured . What would we have made of the abortive attempt to sign a certain Ian Storey-Moore from the Gumps ? ......or of Tommy Doc's clear out and his "replacements" ?    I know a lot of you were not lucky enough to be around when we beat the best regularly but please think before you start to pick holes in our current crop. I've no doubt they read peoples posts and it can't do much for their confidence .  Get behind them and you never know, the twelfth man just might spur them on . Sorrh if you think I'm full of wind/cr@p .........just saying it as I see it ?

Thank God, thought it was just my dodgy memory recalling the days of the whole of the Popside trying to convince Mr Clough to get Mr Magoo off the BBG pitch to let battling Frankie on. Sir Brian was, of course, right. Derby 1, Liverpool 0.

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I'd keep Johnny in the side just because of his Heartbeat song.

Oh and I like him as a player, I always think he does better work when he comes deep inside (ooh err, matron, etc) rather than out wide. When he runs with the ball from deep he has a touch of the Archie Gemmill about him.

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