Poppy banned for England vs Scotland

[StringerBell]

8 minutes ago, Anon said:

Speaking exclusively about international fixtures, yes, a charity to look after your own servicemen and women is political. Imagine FIFA's dilemma when Serbia next have to play Bosnia and both sides want to include the symbol of a charity that supports people the opposition would regard as war criminals.

Domestically I don't really see any reason to stop having poppies on shirts other than I intensely dislike that it affords the oxygen of publicity to aggressive, self aggrandising, needlessly confrontational ****** from either side of the debate.

I would have no problem with that at all. People should put their differences aside and if they can't then why are they playing football with each other at all?

FIFA isn't the UN.

[StringerBell]

3 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Footballers can wear them at any other time. The filth hurled at players who don't wear them will tell you that players are not exactly 'free' to make that choice.

I agree (see my opening comment on this thread) but this is just the other side of the coin. I'm not in favour of letting symbols become hijacked.

[Anon]

1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Footballers can wear them at any other time. The filth hurled at players who don't wear them will tell you that players are not exactly 'free' to make that choice.

Hang on. Freedom of choice isn't the same as freedom from criticism. I admit that much of that criticism is illogical, unintelligible swill, but that's freedom for you.

[AndyinLiverpool]

Just now, StringerBell said:

I agree (see my opening comment on this thread) but this is just the other side of the coin. I'm not in favour of letting symbols become hijacked.

Quite. The problem is, for me, that the poppy has become hijacked. And not in a good way.

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 minutes ago, Anon said:

Hang on. Freedom of choice isn't the same as freedom from criticism. I admit that much of that criticism is illogical, unintelligible swill, but that's freedom for you.

You are right. However, the criticism cannot flow both ways. The player is unable to respond and if he did, the knuckle-draggers wouldn't react in an adult manner. All the criticism and punishment (for any reaction) is heaped upon the player. That's not freedom. It's a tyranny.

[Anon]

18 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

I would have no problem with that at all. People should put their differences aside and if they can't then why are they playing football with each other at all?

FIFA isn't the UN.

That's a different question though about FIFA changing it's rules on political symbols entirely. What we're asking for right now is an exception to be made specifically for us.

[Anon]

24 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

You are right. However, the criticism cannot flow both ways. The player is unable to respond and if he did, the knuckle-draggers wouldn't react in an adult manner. All the criticism and punishment (for any reaction) is heaped upon the player. That's not freedom. It's a tyranny.

I'm not sure that it's fear of the knuckle draggers more than fear of possibly losing the lucrative British paycheck they have the cognitive dissonance to accept without protest.

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 minutes ago, Anon said:

I'm not sure that it's fear of the knuckle draggers more than fear of possibly losing the lucrative British paycheck they have the cognitive dissonance to accept without protest.

QED

[Tombo]

45 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Quite. The problem is, for me, that the poppy has become hijacked. And not in a good way.

Me too, hence why I don't wear one.

But to ban them entirely....?

[RadioactiveWaste]

12 minutes ago, Tombo said:

Me too, hence why I don't wear one.

But to ban them entirely....?

I think FIFA doesn't care about the poppy one way or the other, but doesn't want a you let one you have to let em all situation start. 

The armband solution to seems perfectly appropriate and workable so I don't get why that can't be used again, and there is precedence for it as well. 

[Anon]

25 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

QED

There's nothing tyrannical in pointing out that some people are greedy idiots.

[StringerBell]

7 minutes ago, Anon said:

That's a different question though about FIFA changing it's rules on political symbols entirely. What we're asking for right now is an exception to be made specifically for us.

I'm of the opinion that a country expressing a symbol that is in support of and remeberence of their fallen military members is fine, even if it's the Balkan states doing it. I don't want preferential treatment.

[Anon]

Just now, StringerBell said:

I'm of the opinion that a country expressing a symbol that is in support of and remeberence of their fallen military members is fine, even if it's the Balkan states doing it. I don't want preferential treatment.

Ok, but you have to acknowledge that our FA are going about things the wrong way by requesting we be allowed to wear the poppy rather than requesting that FIFA allow all political symbols.

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, StringerBell said:

I'm actually more concerned by the ruling than the poppy itself tbh. Like I said, I don't think any player should be made to wear it but I think it's equally outrageous for FIFA to command no player to wear it.

Give over you SJW

[bcnram]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

The money raised goes to ex servicemen/women and their families, thereby at the very least tacitly supporting the British military, thereby making the symbol political.

That is just plain ridiculous!!

[bcnram]

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Fair enough. But it if it not a religious symbol, why are religious services lead by ordained church people and including prayers at the heart of remembrance commemorations? Why are those services held on Sundays, rather than on 11th November itself?

I see the point you are trying to make, but aren't two minutes silence held on the 11th as well in a none religious way? The Sunday remembrance services are a traditional thing from days when more people believed this stuff. Personally, I always try to observe that moment on the 11th (and also the Sunday).

[Brammie Steve]

There MIGHT be a slight justification for a ban on the poppy IF either team lodged an objection. For example, if the match was between England and Germany (although even then both sides must have some form of Armistice symbol.

I can see no justification where both sides want to wear the poppy and fought and died alongside each other.

England vs Scotland may be a heated encounter but England and Scotland share a common. and non political affinity to the poppy on Armistce day.

PC Gonmad strikes again.

[ossieram]

2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Quite. The problem is, for me, that the poppy has become hijacked. And not in a good way.

Hijacked by who?

I always have and always will wear a poppy and couldn't give a toss if a few idiots use it to try and score points, just in the same way I fly the George cross on St Georges day and won't stop just because some planks think it makes me a racist.

Not buying or wearing a poppy because you don't agree with them is perfectly fine, but to refuse to wear one because you think it is being hijacked means you are either afraid of being tagged or you actually go along with the people that see it as something other than a symbol of remembrance. 

[JaguarRam]

Not to allow players to wear poppies is the most disgusting decision I have ever witnessed in football and puts me off the sport entirely. 

The world would be a different place without those who gave their lives so we could live in our lives in freedom.

I am appalled and disgusted. F@ck FIFA. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

14 minutes ago, ossieram said:

Hijacked by who?

I always have and always will wear a poppy and couldn't give a toss if a few idiots use it to try and score points, just in the same way I fly the George cross on St Georges day and won't stop just because some planks think it makes me a racist.

Not buying or wearing a poppy because you don't agree with them is perfectly fine, but to refuse to wear one because you think it is being hijacked means you are either afraid of being tagged or you actually go along with the people that see it as something other than a symbol of remembrance. 

I do see it as a symbol of something other than remembrance. 

I am not afraid of being tagged, though poppy virtue signalling is annoying and ensures that the poppy will continue to be political.