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Turning point


Mos_Ram
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How are often do we win in the fashion we did yesterday? There was certainly a bit of an away smash and grab performance about Derby yesterday. We rode our look at times, scored at important times (from corners WTF!) and saw it out in a relatively controlled and professional way.

Reflecting on the performance 24 hours on, I can't help but feel like it could be the turning point - with some easier (on paper) fixtures coming up. In my rams-tinted world this is the start of a glorious unbeaten run that sees us hit full flow on Sunday 11 December with another 5-0 demolition of Forest and Derby on the verge of the playoffs on 1 January. 

Or we could get beat at Molineaux by Nigel Pearson's Wolves with a typically anaemic performance in front of the Sky Sports cameras and Ian 'I hate Derby' Holloway...

 

 

 

 

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Hoping it is,although the true turning point was steve.m returning to his spiritual home in the first place.

Agreed tho, this with should build the lads confidence and kick start the season for them....I was there on Saturday and the feeling of relief from the crowd and the team was palpable..it felt like we had won the fa cup,everyone was on their feet at the whistle... Brilliant

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I thought Brighton and Newcastle looked tough home fixtures. Never thought Villa would be tough. They were abysmal in the PL and hopeless away. It's their name that people respect. In reality they've been a mess.

Barnsley, Bristol, Blackburn, Preston, Burton and Ipswich? I wouldn't expect to win them all but individually a loss in any of them would be a bit gutting for a promotion fighting team.

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3 hours ago, Alpha said:

I thought Brighton and Newcastle looked tough home fixtures. Never thought Villa would be tough. They were abysmal in the PL and hopeless away. It's their name that people respect. In reality they've been a mess.

Barnsley, Bristol, Blackburn, Preston, Burton and Ipswich? I wouldn't expect to win them all but individually a loss in any of them would be a bit gutting for a promotion fighting team.

I think you're spot on here @Alpha. To me there was nothing that tough about our start to season, not necessarily saying it was an easy start but more of a average run of fixtures and even if it could be considered a difficult start we still should have done better.  I think what has been tricky has been the run of fixtures McClaren has had since taking over. We've played 4 in form sides all currently residing in the top 10  in the space of two weeks whilst trying to piece a play style and confidence back together. To come through that little run at that specific time with 7 points, really is good going.

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10 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Sorry, top 3 for a good chunk of that. And top 1 for a while. 

So yeah, coming into the season I think the aim was probably promotion. 

The aim was a rising tide of performance, promotion merely a side effect of that.

Unfortunately Captain 'pugwash' Pearson dropped the anchor straight through the hull and holed us below the waterline.

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3 hours ago, Alpha said:

Sorry, top 3 for a good chunk of that. And top 1 for a while. 

So yeah, coming into the season I think the aim was probably promotion. 

Every season the squad needs to improve if we as a team want to improve on the previous seasons finish.

We finished 5th last season and as far as I can tell we have not improved our squad, looking at squads that were in the championship last season most have improved their squads, now take into account  Newcastle, Norwich [and maybe Villa] their squads are by far a better than ours. Add into the factor that last season was probably the easiest season to get promoted as no real team stood out with quality, this season is a different kettle of fish.

You have to be realistic.

Promotion, we are miles from it. The squad has to vastly improve before we are near to challenging for it. 

First port of call is to get us into to a mid table side and then rebuild......

 

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8 minutes ago, toddy said:

Every season the squad needs to improve if we as a team want to improve on the previous seasons finish.

We finished 5th last season and as far as I can tell we have not improved our squad, looking at squads that were in the championship last season most have improved their squads, now take into account  Newcastle, Norwich [and maybe Villa] their squads are by far a better than ours. Add into the factor that last season was probably the easiest season to get promoted as no real team stood out with quality, this season is a different kettle of fish.

Promotion, we are miles from it. The squad has to vastly improve before we are near to challenging for it. 

First port of call is to get us into to a mid table side and then rebuild......

 

Villa are nothing special at all. And never looked like they would be. 

We spent £10m on a squad that finished 5th.

Brighton haven't done much. 

If £10m worth of players hasn't improved the squad then that just says that not only did Pearson get us playing crap football and getting terrible results from pretty ordinary bunch of fixtures but that he also wasted money. 

Norwich have lost players as well as purchased. They just got thumped 5-0. Haven't they lost a handful of games? The league doesn't get significantly stronger or weaker year by year or there'd be an easy survival in the PL and League 1 sides wouldn't keep up. Unless the whole of British football is improving? Which doesn't help explain the poor performance in European competition. 

We were a top 6 team. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it. We've been in the top 6 for 3 years with the exception of a few weeks. Wassall, Clement and McClaren all achieved that. You say we needed to improve to remain a top 6 side?

Have we improved at all since 2014? How much have we spent. So despite huge investment and a lack of improvement two rookies managed to keep us in the Play Offs. 

But you didn't expect to be in the top 6 this season? I can only assume you must have has less faith in that blockhead than me. Even I thought he'd get top 6. 

So it did come as a surprise to everyone but you that we struggled to score and beat..

Villa at home who'd not won away since August 2015. Barnsley, Burton, Ipswich, Blackburn, Bristol, Blackburn. 

We also struggled with Carlisle, Grimsby and got mauled by Liverpool in training mode. 

All together that's massive under achievement from a "proven and experienced manager".

We've now taken 11points from a possible 18. Which is closer to what we'd expect.

Let's not pretend we went through the summer expecting midtable. 

Especially you who said Wassall wasn't doing enough

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10 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Villa are nothing special at all. And never looked like they would be. 

We spent £10m on a squad that finished 5th.

Brighton haven't done much. 

If £10m worth of players hasn't improved the squad then that just says that not only did Pearson get us playing crap football and getting terrible results from pretty ordinary bunch of fixtures but that he also wasted money. 

Norwich have lost players as well as purchased. They just got thumped 5-0. Haven't they lost a handful of games? The league doesn't get significantly stronger or weaker year by year or there'd be an easy survival in the PL and League 1 sides wouldn't keep up. Unless the whole of British football is improving? Which doesn't help explain the poor performance in European competition. 

We were a top 6 team. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it. We've been in the top 6 for 3 years with the exception of a few weeks. Wassall, Clement and McClaren all achieved that. You say we needed to improve to remain a top 6 side?

Have we improved at all since 2014? How much have we spent. So despite huge investment and a lack of improvement two rookies managed to keep us in the Play Offs. 

But you didn't expect to be in the top 6 this season? I can only assume you must have has less faith in that blockhead than me. Even I thought he'd get top 6. 

So it did come as a surprise to everyone but you that we struggled to score and beat..

Villa at home who'd not won away since August 2015. Barnsley, Burton, Ipswich, Blackburn, Bristol, Blackburn. 

We also struggled with Carlisle, Grimsby and got mauled by Liverpool in training mode. 

All together that's massive under achievement from a "proven and experienced manager".

We've now taken 11points from a possible 18. Which is closer to what we'd expect.

Let's not pretend we went through the summer expecting midtable. 

Especially you who said Wassall wasn't doing enough

Hard to argue with that analysis . 

As ever ,  it will be those games against "peer" clubs that will determine the outcome of our season. defeats against Barnsley Ipswich burton and Blackburn may yet be our downfall this season . 

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On 30/10/2016 at 16:09, Mos_Ram said:

How are often do we win in the fashion we did yesterday? There was certainly a bit of an away smash and grab performance about Derby yesterday. We rode our look at times, scored at important times (from corners WTF!) and saw it out in a relatively controlled and professional way.

Reflecting on the performance 24 hours on, I can't help but feel like it could be the turning point - with some easier (on paper) fixtures coming up. In my rams-tinted world this is the start of a glorious unbeaten run that sees us hit full flow on Sunday 11 December with another 5-0 demolition of Forest and Derby on the verge of the playoffs on 1 January. 

Or we could get beat at Molineaux by Nigel Pearson's Wolves with a typically anaemic performance in front of the Sky Sports cameras and Ian 'I hate Derby' Holloway...

 

 

 

 

Ah, its the hope that kills you .....;)

I don't think we have gone into a Rocky film 'montage' stage just yet (stirring music as Mac chivvies on Russell and Vydra running holding tractor tyres above their heads, while Richard Keogh bench presses five kebab elephant legs) but I think we are going to steadily float upwards in the table.

Christmas fixtures will be key.

Other things to consider - Bruce has a lot of work to do at Villa, which will push them back.

There is always the possibility that as Prem clubs panic and sack around Christmas, messrs Hoghton and Wagner could be off.

Key players at other clubs getting crocked.

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2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Villa are nothing special at all. And never looked like they would be. 

We spent £10m on a squad that finished 5th.

Brighton haven't done much. 

If £10m worth of players hasn't improved the squad then that just says that not only did Pearson get us playing crap football and getting terrible results from pretty ordinary bunch of fixtures but that he also wasted money. 

Norwich have lost players as well as purchased. They just got thumped 5-0. Haven't they lost a handful of games? The league doesn't get significantly stronger or weaker year by year or there'd be an easy survival in the PL and League 1 sides wouldn't keep up. Unless the whole of British football is improving? Which doesn't help explain the poor performance in European competition. 

We were a top 6 team. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it. We've been in the top 6 for 3 years with the exception of a few weeks. Wassall, Clement and McClaren all achieved that. You say we needed to improve to remain a top 6 side?

Have we improved at all since 2014? How much have we spent. So despite huge investment and a lack of improvement two rookies managed to keep us in the Play Offs. 

But you didn't expect to be in the top 6 this season? I can only assume you must have has less faith in that blockhead than me. Even I thought he'd get top 6. 

So it did come as a surprise to everyone but you that we struggled to score and beat..

Villa at home who'd not won away since August 2015. Barnsley, Burton, Ipswich, Blackburn, Bristol, Blackburn. 

We also struggled with Carlisle, Grimsby and got mauled by Liverpool in training mode. 

All together that's massive under achievement from a "proven and experienced manager".

We've now taken 11points from a possible 18. Which is closer to what we'd expect.

Let's not pretend we went through the summer expecting midtable. 

Especially you who said Wassall wasn't doing enough

Spending money does not equate to improving the squad, only quality players do this [hence why we have players like Blackmann]

You are correct we were a top 6 team, - were is the word, but we are currently we are trying to be a mid table team...............

The Championship does get stronger or weaker by the quality of the teams and their squads. Its not how much you spend its the quality of the spend and does it fit -Newcastle prime example.

It is really does not matter where we were last season or the season before, if you don't improve your squad  then you struggle the following season

eg, Utd won the league 14/15 following season, flops

Chelsea won the league 15/16, following season flops

Leicester won the league last season potential flops this season.  

 

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4 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

Hard to argue with that analysis . 

As ever ,  it will be those games against "peer" clubs that will determine the outcome of our season. defeats against Barnsley Ipswich burton and Blackburn may yet be our downfall this season . 

I mentioned Blackburn twice. I meant Preston though. Same thing innit?

I think when you look at individual fixtures like the start of the season and like the run we're about to go on then you'd expect to win them all. But as a block of fixtures you tend to be more reasonable.

If I said to you do you think we'll beat Blackburn at home, Barnsley away and Bristol away then you'd probably say that it would be dissapointing to not get 9 points 

But if those games were in a run then you'd probably be happy with 6 or 7 points. 

But however you look at it

Villa, Burton, Blackburn, Bristol, Barnsley and Preston. 5 pts? My God. 

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2 minutes ago, toddy said:

Spending money does not equate to improving the squad, only quality players do this [hence why we have players like Blackmann]

You are correct we were a top 6 team, - were is the word, but we are currently we are trying to be a mid table team...............

The Championship does get stronger or weaker by the quality of the teams and their squads. Its not how much you spend its the quality of the spend and does it fit -Newcastle prime example.

It is really does not matter where we were last season or the season before, if you don't improve your squad  then you struggle the following season

eg, Utd won the league 14/15 following season, flops

Chelsea won the league 15/16, following season flops

Leicester won the league last season potential flops this season.  

 

We're trying to be a midtable team because of Nigel Pearson. He didn't come here to achieve midtable. That wasn't mine, yours, his or anyone else's expectation. The expectation was that he'd play decent football and keep us at the top end. 

To do that you need more than the pathetic results he gave us. And he didn't have tough fixtures. 

You're missing my point. You claimed last season was easier to be in the top 6 than this season? Why? Because we didn't improve? 

But we didn't improve in summer 2014 or summer 2015. We either stood still or recruited poorly. Yet the team still spent the vast majority of 3 years inside the top 3 and top 6. Especially when not destroyed by injuries. 

The league doesn't get significantly stronger or weaker. Some teams improve and others don't. It changes very little year on year. 

So its not unreasonable to expect us to be in or around the top 6 with the team Clement and Wassall had. 

The fact Nigel Pearson took that team, spent £10m or whatever and made it a bottom 6 team shows just how useless he was here. 

It was not unreasonable to expect more than 8pts from the games that he had. 

He's the reason we are where we are. No way on earth was he taking over a team hopeful of midtable. But he managed to leave one. 

He's not the victim here of a team with ambitions above capabilites. I never said the expectation was promotion. Just to be half as good as Darren Wassall would be a start.

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1 hour ago, toddy said:

Every season the squad needs to improve if we as a team want to improve on the previous seasons finish.

We finished 5th last season and as far as I can tell we have not improved our squad, looking at squads that were in the championship last season most have improved their squads, now take into account  Newcastle, Norwich [and maybe Villa] their squads are by far a better than ours. Add into the factor that last season was probably the easiest season to get promoted as no real team stood out with quality, this season is a different kettle of fish.

You have to be realistic.

Promotion, we are miles from it. The squad has to vastly improve before we are near to challenging for it. 

First port of call is to get us into to a mid table side and then rebuild......

 

We finished 5th last season. Comparing our results game for game with last year we are not far behind that. We've beaten leeds at home and Cardiff away, when we lost the equivalent games last year. Just beat the wendies only drew last year. 

But we lost at home to Blackburn, away to Huddersfield and a couple more games where we've done worse than last year. Overall, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't match last years position. Hopefully we have better coaches than last year. 

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hi all

Just seen the highlights from Saturday.  On that evidence this seems like a return to the old buccaneering Rams we used to know, and I think we might be at the start of a good run of results now.  If we can take around 20 points from the next 9 games, and if we now continue to catch up with the teams above us by 1 or 2 points with each fixture then top 10 at Xmas is definitely possible and top 6 by Easter is still not impossible by any means.  Top 2 is probably out of the question now I'd agree, but I'd still fancy us in a playoff battle against any of the other likely contenders. 

Bringing back the Mac has been controversial for sure, and I respect the views of those (including my brother BTW) who either don't rate him or are still fuming from his previous stint or both.  However, what I just saw makes me optimistic.  Whatever we might think of him personally or professionally, he does seem to have the knack of getting these players to perform at their best most of the time.

I like the 'death or glory' style Rams, it's fabulous to watch, and I'd rather we stayed in the C'ship playing like this than see us in the PL parking the bus each week to try to grind out a 0-0 against the likes of Stoke in order to get to 40 points.  However, if we went up and still played like this (as Bournemouth have, and as Swansea used to) then that would be just perfect.

COYR!!!

LR2 

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8 hours ago, LondonRam2 said:

hi all

Just seen the highlights from Saturday.  On that evidence this seems like a return to the old buccaneering Rams we used to know, and I think we might be at the start of a good run of results now.  If we can take around 20 points from the next 9 games, and if we now continue to catch up with the teams above us by 1 or 2 points with each fixture then top 10 at Xmas is definitely possible and top 6 by Easter is still not impossible by any means.  Top 2 is probably out of the question now I'd agree, but I'd still fancy us in a playoff battle against any of the other likely contenders. 

Bringing back the Mac has been controversial for sure, and I respect the views of those (including my brother BTW) who either don't rate him or are still fuming from his previous stint or both.  However, what I just saw makes me optimistic.  Whatever we might think of him personally or professionally, he does seem to have the knack of getting these players to perform at their best most of the time.

I like the 'death or glory' style Rams, it's fabulous to watch, and I'd rather we stayed in the C'ship playing like this than see us in the PL parking the bus each week to try to grind out a 0-0 against the likes of Stoke in order to get to 40 points.  However, if we went up and still played like this (as Bournemouth have, and as Swansea used to) then that would be just perfect.

COYR!!!

LR2 

The contrast between the last two home games couldn't be greater... The brentford game was one of the most boring depressing games I have seen , with the crowd practically asleep. The wendies game was end to end stuff packed with incidents at both ends. And a fantastic atmosphere. 

Fact is with three points for a win you may as well go for it. I don't think we have any real goalscorers in the team now, bent played well on Saturday but still hasn't scored for ages. And boy do we miss martin. 

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