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Squad comparison.


ollycutts1982
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16 minutes ago, ollycutts1982 said:

I apologise if this has been mentioned but is the squad that McClaren is inheriting better than the one he left.

I believe it is, right or wrong I think the fact that Martin isn't here might be the only glitch but whether Vydra can step up is yet to be seen though it looks good so far.

Arguably the squad quality on an individual basis is higher however we have nowhere near the same degree of tactical cohesion throughout the squad. We have too many players bought for too many different systems and the squad is something of a mess. I doubt we have the right balance of players to play any system at 100% efficiency. All in all, I'd say we are in a worse spot now than what we were.

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3 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Arguably the squad quality on an individual basis is higher however we have nowhere near the same degree of tactical cohesion throughout the squad. We have too many players bought for too many different systems and the squad is something of a mess. I doubt we have the right balance of players to play any system at 100% efficiency. All in all, I'd say we are in a worse spot now than what we were.

I think the players we have can still be fielded fairly well in a 4-3-3... The defence is still set for a 4 at the back... We still have 4/5 decent CMs who all suit a 3 man midfield and then we've got loadsa players who aren't quite mids and aren't quite forwards...

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7 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

individually much better.....as a "team" much worse

I think that's spot on. However, the bulk of this squad were a solid team scoring spectacular goals, winning games and sat top of the league last Xmas. But the loss of one of two key players, the departure of three managers since, another failure in the playoffs... I believe the players here must be struggling in terms of a set plan and clearly lack a sense of direction and stability. 

 

They aren't alone. I've become awfully confused over the last year regards our club and the strategy. We can only hope that Mac's man-management will have an effect and that with some good results, the football improves along with the atmosphere around the club and that a clear vision shows itself. 

 

I believe Powell's short stint will have settled things a little. It's a new dawn. Again. Let it be one worth waking up to. 

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5 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I think the players we have can still be fielded fairly well in a 4-3-3... The defence is still set for a 4 at the back... We still have 4/5 decent CMs who all suit a 3 man midfield and then we've got loadsa players who aren't quite mids and aren't quite forwards...

Ehhhh sorta. We currently lack a decent Defensive midfielder with Thorne injured, Johnson will do as a stop gap but his distribution is too poor in the long run. We lack a striker with good link-up play (which is vital in a possession based 433), although MAYBE Vydra can be coached into the role. I'm not keen on our options for the left inside forward with no one standing out to me, personally I'd put Ince there and reintroduce Russell to the right. Long term I'd look to move Vydra to the left inside forward slot and bring in a link-up player to play upfront. I'm also a little concerned about the left centre back slot, as both Shackell and Pearce are slow and not really good enough on the ball for me.

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I'd agree with others on here, the individual quality and in particular squad depth is hugely better, we have a huge number of players who are vastly experienced in this division and should be more than capable of putting in a serious promotion challenge. However for whatever reason the team hasn't gelled together and has struggled for consistency, and it's now up to the manager to get that out of them

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1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

I'd agree with others on here, the individual quality and in particular squad depth is hugely better, we have a huge number of players who are vastly experienced in this division and should be more than capable of putting in a serious promotion challenge. However for whatever reason the team hasn't gelled together and has struggled for consistency, and it's now up to the manager to get that out of them

I think a large reason it hasn't gelled is because we haven't been hiring with a clear plan in mind and there has been a lot of recruiting just for the sake of it.

For example take the Johnson signing, he was never ever going to fit into a possession based side and a modicum of decent scouting could have told you that. Heck the reason he was likely sold from Norwich for not being good enough in possession.

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Just now, brady1993 said:

I think a large reason it hasn't gelled is because we haven't been hiring with a clear plan in mind and there has been a lot of recruiting just for the sake of it.

For example take the Johnson signing, he was never ever going to fit into a possession based side and a modicum of decent scouting could have told you that. Heck the reason he was likely sold from Norwich for not being good enough in possession.

Absolutely, Mel himself admitted recently that the recruitment has been all over the place and we definately need to be more careful with the style of players we are recruiting, and not just buying players because they're available.

On Johnson he's a bit of an enigma to me- I was hugely excited when we signed him, he'd been excellent at this level and even above for a few years then, and he showed his quality when he first joined. However since then he seems to have fallen apart, I think it's harsh to say he's never going to fit in a possession side, he's obviously not a world class passer but when on form his vision can be excellent, and recently his form seems to be recovering and he may just add something different to midfield. Whether he would start ahead of others in his position remains to be seen however and I do think we'd have been better off buying a Bryson mark 2 rather than Johnson if I'm honest

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1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

Absolutely, Mel himself admitted recently that the recruitment has been all over the place and we definately need to be more careful with the style of players we are recruiting, and not just buying players because they're available.

 

But what happened to the ten players for every position list on the wall?

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3 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Absolutely, Mel himself admitted recently that the recruitment has been all over the place and we definately need to be more careful with the style of players we are recruiting, and not just buying players because they're available.

On Johnson he's a bit of an enigma to me- I was hugely excited when we signed him, he'd been excellent at this level and even above for a few years then, and he showed his quality when he first joined. However since then he seems to have fallen apart, I think it's harsh to say he's never going to fit in a possession side, he's obviously not a world class passer but when on form his vision can be excellent, and recently his form seems to be recovering and he may just add something different to midfield. Whether he would start ahead of others in his position remains to be seen however and I do think we'd have been better off buying a Bryson mark 2 rather than Johnson if I'm honest

I don't think Johnson is a bad player. Stick him in a side like Burnley's and he will probably do well. However his ball retention is  too poor to be played in the midfield of a possession based side. His best season for pass completion was last year at Derby where he managed a measly 74%, our next lowest midfielder last year was Hendrick with 81.8%. I'd be willing to make allowances if it was a little worse but it's drastically worse than the rest of our midfielders and his qualities don't outshine the fact he doesn't retain possession well enough.

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42 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said:

I think that's spot on. However, the bulk of this squad were a solid team scoring spectacular goals, winning games and sat top of the league last Xmas. But the loss of one of two key players, the departure of three managers since, another failure in the playoffs... I believe the players here must be struggling in terms of a set plan and clearly lack a sense of direction and stability. 

 

They aren't alone. I've become awfully confused over the last year regards our club and the strategy. We can only hope that Mac's man-management will have an effect and that with some good results, the football improves along with the atmosphere around the club and that a clear vision shows itself. 

 

I believe Powell's short stint will have settled things a little. It's a new dawn. Again. Let it be one worth waking up to. 

 

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7 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

 

I don't think Johnson is a bad player. Stick him in a side like Burnley's and he will probably do well. However his ball retention is  too poor to be played in the midfield of a possession based side. His best season for pass completion was last year at Derby where he managed a measly 74%, our next lowest midfielder last year was Hendrick with 81.8%. I'd be willing to make allowances if it was a little worse but it's drastically worse than the rest of our midfielders and his qualities don't outshine the fact he doesn't retain possession well enough.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest that he doesn't really fit our system, I think that 6 million should definately have been spent on someone who fits our system more. However that's not to say his qualities can't be used once he's got his confidence back in terms of tough tackling and shielding the back line, as well as getting involved- he's certainly not one to hide in the shadows so to speak. I also would say those stats are skewed by his dreadful run under clement, he's normally better than that imo

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10 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I also would say those stats are skewed by his dreadful run under clement, he's normally better than that

I know I might be going on a bit here but he really isn't.... https://www.whoscored.com/Players/12490/History/Bradley-Johnson

Derby 16/17 - 69.5%

Derby 15/16 - 74%

Norwich 15/16 - 70.1%

Norwich 14/15 - 72.2%

Norwich 13/14 - 74.2%

Norwich 12/13 - 71.9%

Norwich 11/12 - 78%

AVE - 73.6%

 

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