Should have rested him from training....

[Day]

 

[Pearl Ram]

Just made a similar comment in the George Thorne thread. 

[Carl Sagan]

Obviously injuries can happen during training.

Obviously training is less intense than an actual match and injuries are less likely.

It seems hard for some people to grasp the magnitude of the folly of playing the full strength team against Ipswich, with very little to be gained and an awful lot to lose. Among those people were the DCFC management. Two years ago McClaren was rather more sensible and made six changes the team for the final game against the dirties. We were the form team but there were no worries about "momentum" because the form team was the one that would start at Brighton.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/leeds-united/team-news/team-news-six-changes-for-derby-on-final-day_153053.html

Hope we're still able to go up, but even if we do I'd expect it's now a lot less likely Wassall gets the gig permanently.

 

[Srg]

Just now, Carl Sagan said:

Obviously injuries can happen during training.

Obviously training is less intense than an actual match and injuries are less likely.

It seems hard for some people to grasp the magnitude of the folly of playing the full strength team against Ipswich, with very little to be gained and an awful lot to lose. Among those people were the DCFC management. Two years ago McClaren was rather more sensible and made six changes the team for the final game against the dirties. We were the form team but there were no worries about "momentum" because the form team was the one that would start at Brighton.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/leeds-united/team-news/team-news-six-changes-for-derby-on-final-day_153053.html

Hope we're still able to go up, but even if we do I'd expect it's now a lot less likely Wassall gets the gig permanently.

 

Hull played a full strength team.

[Carl Sagan]

Just now, Srg said:

Hull played a full strength team.

For very different reasons, as they were desperate to try to play their first team into form.

[Srg]

Just now, Carl Sagan said:

For very different reasons, as they were desperate to try to play their first team into form.

But it's not exactly easy to just switch it off and on. We've seen earlier this season under Clement how difficult it is for rested players to come back in and play well. We've looked half asleep a few times when we've done that.

As I said on the podcast, my issue wasn't with the selection per se, it was the fact we selected the team we did and then proceeded to play at 50% pace. That's when you're asking for trouble. Now if you can put that down to Wassall, maybe, but players have to take some of that.

[Day]

1 minute ago, Carl Sagan said:

Obviously injuries can happen during training.

Obviously training is less intense than an actual match and injuries are less likely.

It seems hard for some people to grasp the magnitude of the folly of playing the full strength team against Ipswich, with very little to be gained and an awful lot to lose. Among those people were the DCFC management. Two years ago McClaren was rather more sensible and made six changes the team for the final game against the dirties. We were the form team but there were no worries about "momentum" because the form team was the one that would start at Brighton.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/leeds-united/team-news/team-news-six-changes-for-derby-on-final-day_153053.html

Hope we're still able to go up, but even if we do I'd expect it's now a lot less likely Wassall gets the gig permanently.

 

When you say little gain Wassall maybe saw 4th place and playing the away leg first as a advantage, we haven't been great away from home this season, knowing what has to be done in the 2nd leg at home could have been what they wanted.

McClaren made changes but 3rd place wasn't in danger going into the last game, we had literally nothing to play for.

Shelf Wed also had nothing to play for this season, they made changes.

Hull's 4th place was in danger, Bruce kept a strong team

[Carl Sagan]

1 minute ago, Srg said:

But it's not exactly easy to just switch it off and on. We've seen earlier this season under Clement how difficult it is for rested players to come back in and play well. We've looked half asleep a few times when we've done that.

As I said on the podcast, my issue wasn't with the selection per se, it was the fact we selected the team we did and then proceeded to play at 50% pace. That's when you're asking for trouble. Now if you can put that down to Wassall, maybe, but players have to take some of that.

No real switching off to be done and if you don't raise your game for the playoffs, batteries fully charged, there's something wrong with you. Even Wassall talked about our midfielders being "exhausted" after the Brighton game. Batteries need to be recharged. And with nothing to play for, is it surprising the players selected performed at 50%? Give games to those bursting with a point to prove instead.

I was annoyed with Martin and Keogh in terms of their bookings and the subtext of Wassall's interview was that he blamed them too, saying they had different substitutions planned but he couldn't take players (ie Thorne) off because he had to withdraw those two instead. But largely that shows the total lack of foresight with the original team selection: it's almost certain you'll get bookings.

You can tell I'm stull furious we've done our best to screw everything up when there was no need whatsoever.

[Carl Sagan]

4 minutes ago, David said:

When you say little gain Wassall maybe saw 4th place and playing the away leg first as a advantage, we haven't been great away from home this season, knowing what has to be done in the 2nd leg at home could have been what they wanted.

McClaren made changes but 3rd place wasn't in danger going into the last game, we had literally nothing to play for.

Shelf Wed also had nothing to play for this season, they made changes.

Hull's 4th place was in danger, Bruce kept a strong team

We'd effectively lost 4th place conceding a nothing goal against 10 men in the 95th minute at Brighton. As I said on here before Ipswich, you could still decide to go for it on the very unlikely basis of getting fourth, but the optimal strategy had to be to accept we would finish 5th and rest all our key players instead. You should do everything you can to maximize your chances of success but we made a silly call instead.

[Srg]

I can feel a poll coming on

[Day]

1 minute ago, Carl Sagan said:

We'd effectively lost 4th place conceding a nothing goal against 10 men in the 95th minute at Brighton. As I said on here before Ipswich, you could still decide to go for it on the very unlikely basis of getting fourth, but the optimal strategy had to be to accept we would finish 5th and rest all our key players instead. You should do everything you can to maximize your chances of success but we made a silly call instead.

Despite the Brighton result 4th place was still on offer, it was quite possible that Rotherham could have been Hull and allowed us to move above them.

Again you may see this as little to gain but Wassall and co may have seen 4th as being a huge advantage and as you say, maximising our chances of success. Why did Hull go in to the Rotherham game with a full strength team? we're not talking about another inexperienced manager here, Bruce clearly wanted to nail down 4th place and finish at home. 

[Carl Sagan]

After their Herculean efforts, as soon as they reached safety Rotherham had given up playing. They'd even only drawn at home to the gumps. Seriously, if Wassall and co thought the risk of going "all in" to finish fourth was still worth it then they're idiots. Strategy is about the bigger picture.

The previous Saturday Hull had lost to Bolton. Bolton! If they were to have any confidence going into the playoffs they needed to play a strong team and hope things came good. We weren't in that position.

[ronnieronalde]

1.65 points per game with George.

1.83 points per game without him.

Now, clearly the bloke is a very good player and an important part of the team. I don't like to see talented players out injured for long spells and it's a real shame for him to miss out after his most prolific season ever appearance wise.

But there needs to be a grip on reality regained. He's played 44 games in two and a half seasons and for a massive majority of that time Derby haven't been out of the top 6, winning games and picking up points regularly.

It seems a few already have their minds made up that if Derby lose in the play offs it's down to Wassall not resting George.

Seems a bit unfair when you look at how the team has performed consistently without him.

[Day]

7 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

After their Herculean efforts, as soon as they reached safety Rotherham had given up playing. They'd even only drawn at home to the gumps. Seriously, if Wassall and co thought the risk of going "all in" to finish fourth was still worth it then they're idiots. Strategy is about the bigger picture.

The previous Saturday Hull had lost to Bolton. Bolton! If they were to have any confidence going into the playoffs they needed to play a strong team and hope things came good. We weren't in that position.

Right and what does it do for our confidence losing to Ipswich?

Why is it wrong for us to pick a full strength team, go for 4th place and give the players a huge confidence boost of going into the Play offs above Hull unbeaten in 7 yet ok for Hull as they lost to Bolton.

This is the Championship, Rotherham last game of the season could have easily turned up and caused a shock.

Whilst there is something to play no game is meaningless. Wassall is far from being an idiot, he's surrounded by some pretty experienced coaches and ex managers that would have also been involved.

[Sith Happens]

I think i have been through a timewarp and landed on this forum last saturday night.

[Carl Sagan]

3 minutes ago, David said:

Right and what does it do for our confidence losing to Ipswich?

Why is it wrong for us to pick a full strength team, go for 4th place and give the players a huge confidence boost of going into the Play offs above Hull unbeaten in 7 yet ok for Hull as they lost to Bolton.

This is the Championship, Rotherham last game of the season could have easily turned up and caused a shock.

Whilst there is something to play no game is meaningless. Wassall is far from being an idiot, he's surrounded by some pretty experienced coaches and ex managers that would have also been involved.

It would have done nothing to dent our confidence if we'd lost to against Ipswich with a reserve side. Why would it? But it does dent our confidence by playing a full strength team and losing. Hence, why put yourself in that position?

If you sat down and worked out all possible outcomes of the match beforehand it would be clear there are a lot of potential bad outcomes playing the first team (very few good ones) and no real bad outcomes playing the reserves. Although I admit I set a high benchmark, it consistently appears to me that Wassall's not intelligent enough to coach at a high level. Which is disappointing for everyone as it would be great if he could succeed as first team coach.

My suggested lineup did have some big guns on the bench. In the very unlikely event it looked as if we could get 4th with half an hour to go, then they could have been brought on if necessary to see us over the line.

[Day]

5 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

It would have done nothing to dent our confidence if we'd lost to against Ipswich with a reserve side. Why would it? But it does dent our confidence by playing a full strength team and losing. Hence, why put yourself in that position?

If you sat down and worked out all possible outcomes of the match beforehand it would be clear there are a lot of potential bad outcomes playing the first team (very few good ones) and no real bad outcomes playing the reserves. Although I admit I set a high benchmark, it consistently appears to me that Wassall's not intelligent enough to coach at a high level. Which is disappointing for everyone as it would be great if he could succeed as first team coach.

My suggested lineup did have some big guns on the bench. In the very unlikely event it looked as if we could get 4th with half an hour to go, then they could have been brought on if necessary to see us over the line.

So your suggestion would have been to play none of the current first team which would have left them just under 2 weeks between games, what effect would this have been on their match fitness?

 

[eddie]

1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said:

Obviously injuries can happen during training.

Obviously training is less intense than an actual match and injuries are less likely.

It seems hard for some people to grasp the magnitude of the folly of playing the full strength team against Ipswich, with very little to be gained and an awful lot to lose. Among those people were the DCFC management. Two years ago McClaren was rather more sensible and made six changes the team for the final game against the dirties. We were the form team but there were no worries about "momentum" because the form team was the one that would start at Brighton.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/leeds-united/team-news/team-news-six-changes-for-derby-on-final-day_153053.html

Hope we're still able to go up, but even if we do I'd expect it's now a lot less likely Wassall gets the gig permanently.

 

More sensible?

Where were the on-loan replacements the following season when we lost Mascarell, Eustace, Buxton, Martin and Bent in the run-in, and we were still without Thorne with the loan window still open?

[ronnieronalde]

12 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

It would have done nothing to dent our confidence if we'd lost to against Ipswich with a reserve side. Why would it? But it does dent our confidence by playing a full strength team and losing. Hence, why put yourself in that position?

If you sat down and worked out all possible outcomes of the match beforehand it would be clear there are a lot of potential bad outcomes playing the first team (very few good ones) and no real bad outcomes playing the reserves. Although I admit I set a high benchmark, it consistently appears to me that Wassall's not intelligent enough to coach at a high level. Which is disappointing for everyone as it would be great if he could succeed as first team coach.

My suggested lineup did have some big guns on the bench. In the very unlikely event it looked as if we could get 4th with half an hour to go, then they could have been brought on if necessary to see us over the line.

Goodness me Carl. What are you basing that on?

He may not have your knowledge or interest in solar systems or far away galaxies but I can confirm that he's a fairly bright lad. Certainly football wise, so far every job he's taken on he's excelled at. 

 

 

[i-Ram]

In all this Thorne and Ireland frenzy, I feel we are missing the most tragic story. John Terry being sent off over the weekend means he has now probably played his last competitive game for Chelsea. If he hadn't been picked on Saturday (stupid, stupid Hiddink) he wouldn't have been in the position where he could be sent off. No final game at the Sty leading the players on to the pitch to be rewarded with the tumultuous applause and total adulation of the Chelsea pigs. Tragedy. Lol.