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Going Back to Square One


Chris Mills

Going Back to Square One  

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Might be alone here but I don't think the signings are that bad, we've just not had a manager/head coach that has got the best out of them. 

I would stick, one or two would leave I guess but making wholesale changes isn't the answer for me. This squad of players is capable of playing much better football than we've seen.

Getting the permanent manager/head coach right is the most important item on the to do list. 

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Go back to the 13/14 regulars where we can.

Grant, Wisdom , Keogh, Buxton, Forsyth, Thorne, Bryson, Hughes, Russell/Bamford, Ward/Dawkins, Martin

Upgrade where we can but like for like (looks like a downgrade actually)

Carson, Cyrus, Keogh, Buxton, Forsyth, Thorne, Bryson, Hughes, Ince, Russell, Martin.

Keep like for like back up. Butterfield, Olsson, Hendrick... struggling...

Upgrade from there.  

So basically any names that aren't above I'd be prepared to listen to offers on. Shackell although a good defender isn't able to do quite what we want him to. 

Be looking to upgrade; Russell, Buxton, Cyrus, Keogh, Grant, Bryson.

Rewind the clock. Should have done it instead of bringing in totally different type of players who are of about the same level.

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Just now, Daveo said:

Might be alone here but I don't think the signings are that bad, we've just not had a manager/head coach that has got the best out of them. 

I would stick, one or two would leave I guess but making wholesale changes isn't the answer for me. This squad of players is capable of playing much better football than we've seen.

Getting the permanent manager/head coach right is the most important item on the to do list. 

Weimann - Struggled to get into a poor Villa side and is striker not a winger that we needed.

Bent - Top striker, but it was either him or Martin as they both play to different systems. 

Pearce - Pointless after we signed Shackell as there was no way he would get into the defence.

Blackman - Poor for most of his career bar one run of form of 10 games that we bought him on. 

Camara - Could argue he hasn't been given a chance, but he isn't even rated highly enough to be on the bench. 

Baird - Too slow Slow for RB and too slow for the holding midfield role and unnecessary when we had Hanson and Johnson.

I'm sorry, but most of our signings have been awful this season. 

 

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Il repeat my point from another thread. The "core" squad will have failed 3 seasons running to gain promotion. Although the football was much better to watch the ultimate goal will not have been achieved 3 seasons running. 3 different managers over 3 seasons with 3 different styles of football not able to get consistency out of our team. A MANAGER needs to come in now to start the rebuild. 

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No need to sack Wassall, just give him another job. His old job. The one he's good at.

Don't sign Karanka if we don't want a repeat of Clement. If we do, then that's fine, but it would make a mockery of the "Derby Way" - not that it hasn't stopped other mocking it anyway.

Let Weimann, Pearce, Johnson, Bent, Warnock, Blackman and possibly Ince and Shackell go and replace them with players who can play football.

Or - and this is an ABSOLUTE bare minimum requirement - replace them with players who play in a position that actually exists in the team.

That matters far more than whoever we have in charge.

Going back to square one would be having Simon Clough scouting players. That's not square one. That was better than what we have now, taking financial resources into account.

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3 minutes ago, Daveo said:

Might be alone here but I don't think the signings are that bad, we've just not had a manager/head coach that has got the best out of them. 

I would stick, one or two would leave I guess but making wholesale changes isn't the answer for me. This squad of players is capable of playing much better football than we've seen.

Getting the permanent manager/head coach right is the most important item on the to do list. 

I think there is a future for ince shackel - squad cover for Olson butterfield Johnson maybe bent and camara but not Blackman Baird 

yes get a proper experienced manager in and play people on merit not on cost to the club 

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I have not seen a capitulation like that  - 3 in 8 minutes - can't recall in all my 40 odd years of watching em. Can anyone else recall surrounding when being three up?

Quite simple - Wassall is out of his depth - he is the youth team manager.

We need a leader, motivator and experienced guy in as soon as possible.

 

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Just now, irobinson said:

I have not seen a capitulation like that  - 3 in 8 minutes - can't recall in all my 40 odd years of watching em. Can anyone else recall surrounding when being three up?

Quite simple - Wassall is out of his depth - he is the youth team manager.

We need a leader, motivator and experienced guy in as soon as possible.

 

Worse than our 2 against Blues last season and I never thought I'd see worse than that.

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4 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

Weimann - Struggled to get into a poor Villa side and is striker not a winger that we needed.

Bent - Top striker, but it was either him or Martin as they both play to different systems. 

Pearce - Pointless after we signed Shackell as there was no way he would get into the defence.

Blackman - Poor for most of his career bar one run of form of 10 games that we bought him on. 

Camara - Could argue he hasn't been given a chance, but he isn't even rated highly enough to be on the bench. 

Baird - Too slow Slow for RB and too slow for the holding midfield role and unnecessary when we had Hanson and Johnson.

I'm sorry, but most of our signings have been awful this season. 

 

I don't accept that all of the signIngs have been awful Bent is still a decent Championship striker it's not his fault he doesn't fit into the formation ditto Blackman playing a striker on the wing what do you expect Pearce is a decent centre back hasn't had chance to displace Keogh or Shackell, Camara not been given much if any of a run so difficult to judge Baird I always imagined was brought in for cover

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1 minute ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

Weimann - Struggled to get into a poor Villa side and is striker not a winger that we needed.

Bent - Top striker, but it was either him or Martin as they both play to different systems. 

Pearce - Pointless after we signed Shackell as there was no way he would get into the defence.

Blackman - Poor for most of his career bar one run of form of 10 games that we bought him on. 

Camara - Could argue he hasn't been given a chance, but he isn't even rated highly enough to be on the bench. 

Baird - Too slow Slow for RB and too slow for the holding midfield role and unnecessary when we had Hanson and Johnson.

I'm sorry, but most of our signings have been awful this season. 

 

When Weimann and Bent were signed we had no system, there was no formation, Clement tried various things before reverting to 4-3-3. We're also back into the same situation now when a permanent manager comes in, 4-3-3 may go out the window so to say they don't fit in may not be true next season.

Bent isn't a Martin clone but I'm all for having various options, a plan B which we never found under McClaren at the backend of last season.

Both are very good players.

Buxton was out injured, we only had Keogh, Shackell and Shotton, Pearce was needed as backup, again a decent option to have if we picked up injuries.

Blackman is one I'll agree on as he was signed when we had a system in place which he clearly doesn't fit into. Camara has only played 70 minutes so it's too early to say how that will turn out.

Baird looked like a Eustace replacement at first, a bit of experience to bring as well. Whilst it didn't work out in the end I can see why we signed him.

Johnson and Butterfield were replacements for Hughes and Bryson, both are very good players, Johnson has gone off the boil and why we have him out on LW I'll never know.

Ince, well Ince is Ince. Quality player.

In general I have no issues with the signings and won't be writing them off until we see what the new manager has in mind. 

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Just now, Inglorius said:

I don't accept that all of the signIngs have been awful Bent is still a decent Championship striker it's not his fault he doesn't fit into the formation ditto Blackman playing a striker on the wing what do you expect Pearce is a decent centre back hasn't had chance to displace Keogh or Shackell, Camara not been given much if any of a run so difficult to judge Baird I always imagined was brought in for cover

I'm not saying they are bad players because they aren't, but they weren't players that we needed. Bent signing was logical as we needed a backup for Martin, but then why buy 2 other strikers in Weimann and Blackman when we only ever player with one striker up-front? 

Pearce was a silly signing as we bought Shackell and also had Bucko and Rawson as backups. I'll admit that Baird wasn't an awful signing as we did need back-up for Thorne, but we soon found out that Baird wasn't really the Eustace replacement we all had hoped for.

What we needed was a new left sided centre back, a backup to Martin, backup to Thorne and a replacement for Ward.

What we got was to much cover and strikers forced to play as wingers. 

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I would get rid of Blackman, Ince, Bent, Johnson, Camara and Pearce in the summer for starters.  Ince though obviously talented is too inconsistent and doesn't add enough steel when the going gets tough, plus I get the feeling he is a divisive character in the squad, judging by some of the other players reactions to him in games, Bent is past his prime and doesn't fit our system, Johnson was a panic buy and has done nothing to justify his wages or transfer fee for the last 4 months, Blackman, Camara and Pearce  don't seem to be good enough, though to be fair they have not really had a fair crack of the whip since arriving here.

We need to build around the core of the players who nearly got us promoted in 2014, but add real genuine quality where it is needed most, in the back four. We are not a million miles away from a team that under the right manager would smash this league, we just need to drop the Billy Big ******** behaviour in the transfer market, and let the manager/head coach do his job without being told what to do by the owner and whoever is in charge of signing players, probably the owner again.

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1 minute ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

I'm not saying they are bad players because they aren't, but they weren't players that we needed. Bent signing was logical as we needed a backup for Martin, but then why buy 2 other strikers in Weimann and Blackman when we only ever player with one striker up-front? 

Pearce was a silly signing as we bought Shackell and also had Bucko and Rawson as backups. I'll admit that Baird wasn't an awful signing as we did need back-up for Thorne, but we soon found out that Baird wasn't really the Eustace replacement we all had hoped for.

What we needed was a new left sided centre back, a backup to Martin, backup to Thorne and a replacement for Ward.

What we got was to much cover and strikers forced to play as wingers. 

I agree that we bought players for positions that we didn't need cover for or bought players we couldn't or didn't want to accommodate into our playing system I don't accept Wassall or Clement before him have got the best out of the collective

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Didn't go so only have radio to go on, but sounded like best away performance of the season for 82 mins, we may have found the first 11, except maybe Russell for Johnson. With the first 11, we should smash forest and re-start our season.

Last 8 mins calamitous. How much is down to the players and how much is wassall? Taking Thorne and Martin off were correct decisions, but changing shape and bringing two strikers on? Hanson should have been on at least!

one positive is after the blues game 2 yrs ago we sorted the defence and went on a run. Can we do the same again? 

So frustrating, especially as 2nd place is there for the taking! Don't think burnley will be stopped now (and they're nothing special)

 

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