cloughandtaylor Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Watching the Mel Morris show last week, one of the questions that was asked at the fans forum was. Will we get a replacement for Chris Martin, incase of injury to him which happened last season? PC response was to say we would change formation and used Bent and Russell / Weimann up front. Yes, that for me it is a temporary solution, so changing a 4-3-3 to diamond formation or whatever formation PC decides, we know from earlier in the season those formations don't really work so well for us as a 4-3-3 does, and what happens if it is a number of weeks again Martin is out..... Would we be much better off trying to bring in another player of the attributes of Martin rather than changing a complete team formation? Who would fit into the Martin role in our 4-3-3 system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 The problem is that Martin is a £12 million+ player, and having someone who can do his role to a level where it's not worth just adjusting the formation to make use of Bent, Russell and Weimann could arguably cost us another record transfer fee. We already have a massive squad, with some absolutely class players at this level waiting for their chance, how do you feel they'd feel if we brought in another player to essentially make them redundant rather than actually use them when needed? What makes this even harder is that I honestly can't think of another "Martin-type" that we could realistically bring in. I'm sure our scouting team have targets, but who do you realistically feel could fill Martin's role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 If you watch further, they also answer your question. Why would a player want to come in when they know for a fact they will play second fiddle to Martin, or be his understudy? What message does that send to Darren Bent? Sorry, mate, you're just not Chris Martin enough for us. Last season, goals weren't the problem. God awful defending was. Having Thorne back, a consistent centre back pairing, a fit goalkeeper, look to have fixed that. That said, they have a list of targets, should they need to strengthen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Just now, AnimalisaRam said: If you watch further, they also answer your question. Why would a player want to come in when they know for a fact they will play second fiddle to Martin, or be his understudy? What message does that send to Darren Bent? Sorry, mate, you're just not Chris Martin enough for us. Last season, goals weren't the problem. God awful defending was. Having Thorne back, a consistent centre back pairing, a fit goalkeeper, look to have fixed that. That said, they have a list of targets, should they need to strengthen. To add to that, I think it's pretty obvious at this point that having a better system in place on field and not exposing the defence as much has helped just as much as Thorne, Shackell and Carson. Not to mention Johnson's effect on the midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 18 minutes ago, super rams said: Watching the Mel Morris show last week, one of the questions that was asked at the fans forum was. Will we get a replacement for Chris Martin, incase of injury to him which happened last season? PC response was to say we would change formation and used Bent and Russell / Weimann up front. Yes, that for me it is a temporary solution, so changing a 4-3-3 to diamond formation or whatever formation PC decides, we know from earlier in the season those formations don't really work so well for us as a 4-3-3 does, and what happens if it is a number of weeks again Martin is out..... Would we be much better off trying to bring in another player of the attributes of Martin rather than changing a complete team formation? Who would fit into the Martin role in our 4-3-3 system? I agree that 433 suits us very well, but at the start of the season it wasn't looking as formidable as it maybe is starting to look now - 442 actually seemed more solid. I think formation changes and tactical changes take time to bed in, and I actually have faith that if we lost Martin, PC has the intelligence to change the tactics to suit the personnel change (rather than blindly continue to play 433 like SMc did), and the talent to make any new formation work - given a few games for the players to truly get to grips with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 At the start of the season the players would still getting to know each other, we also didn't have Johnson or Butterfield available. Martin cannot be cloned and a like for like replacement would cost a fortune, which would be daft when we have an ex England striker that has scored bags of goals in the Premier League and a young attacking forward that has played over 100 Premier League games. 4-2-3-1 would comfortably suit the players..... Thorne Johnson Ince Weimann Russell Bent I don't buy into the idea that anything other than 4-3-3 won't work, these players have not spent their entire careers playing 4-3-3, they will be able to adapt and I would be surprised a plan B isn't already being worked on in training. I'm more than happy to see us work with what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Is there an echo in here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Few and far between if you ask me. Look at possibles Glenn Murray?? Chris Wood?? Ricky Lambert?? Not a chance of any of those signing for us. Im not saying they are the only 3, but that would be the quality of player we would need. Heaven forbid anything happen to Martin, we would need a quality replacement. That type of player won't want to come and sit on the bench as a 'just in case' measure. Getting that type of player at short notice would be near on impossible. I think the best thing to do would be change the formation and go with what we have got. If McClaren had done that last year things might have been different. Instead he went with Russell or Bent in the Martin role with the thinking if it doesn't work 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th time try and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 What the man said at 1.01 . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrN2ISgGifE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 2 minutes ago, ollycutts1982 said: Few and far between if you ask me. Look at possibles Glenn Murray?? Chris Wood?? Ricky Lambert?? Not a chance of any of those signing for us. Im not saying they are the only 3, but that would be the quality of player we would need. Heaven forbid anything happen to Martin, we would need a quality replacement. That type of player won't want to come and sit on the bench as a 'just in case' measure. Getting that type of player at short notice would be near on impossible. I think the best thing to do would be change the formation and go with what we have got. If McClaren had done that last year things might have been different. Instead he went with Russell or Bent in the Martin role with the thinking if it doesn't work 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th time try and try again. Except none of those players play like Martin. Wood is a decent scorer, but a bit of a donkey. Lambert is more of a target man than a ball player, and similar could be said of Murray. If the only yardstick you're going by is "good player", we have Darren sausaging Bent in the squad. To be honest, he's a better goalscorer than any of those 3, and is younger than 2 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Just now, Albert said: Except none of those players play like Martin. Wood is a decent scorer, but a bit of a donkey. Lambert is more of a target man than a ball player, and similar could be said of Murray. If the only yardstick you're going by is "good player", we have Darren sausaging Bent in the squad. To be honest, he's a better goalscorer than any of those 3, and is younger than 2 of them. They were probably poor examples tbh. The point I was trying to make, badly, was we would need a quality player who would not be available to us. No team will loan out that type of player, if it was in January and you wanted to buy that type of player it would cost you a fortune. Martin is somewhat unique as it would be hard to pick another player just like him. Can anyone name a realistic target who would offer what Martin does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 5 minutes ago, ollycutts1982 said: They were probably poor examples tbh. The point I was trying to make, badly, was we would need a quality player who would not be available to us. No team will loan out that type of player, if it was in January and you wanted to buy that type of player it would cost you a fortune. Martin is somewhat unique as it would be hard to pick another player just like him. Can anyone name a realistic target who would offer what Martin does? To be honest about, can anyone name a target that would have any intention of playing for us that could replace Martin, regardless of where they'd double our transfer record or not? He's a rare kind of player, and exactly what our current set up needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAT Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 21 minutes ago, cosmic said: I agree that 433 suits us very well, but at the start of the season it wasn't looking as formidable as it maybe is starting to look now - 442 actually seemed more solid. I think formation changes and tactical changes take time to bed in, and I actually have faith that if we lost Martin, PC has the intelligence to change the tactics to suit the personnel change (rather than blindly continue to play 433 like SMc did), and the talent to make any new formation work - given a few games for the players to truly get to grips with. 17 minutes ago, Daveo said: At the start of the season the players would still getting to know each other, we also didn't have Johnson or Butterfield available. Martin cannot be cloned and a like for like replacement would cost a fortune, which would be daft when we have an ex England striker that has scored bags of goals in the Premier League and a young attacking forward that has played over 100 Premier League games. 4-2-3-1 would comfortably suit the players..... Thorne Johnson Ince Weimann Russell Bent I don't buy into the idea that anything other than 4-3-3 won't work, these players have not spent their entire careers playing 4-3-3, they will be able to adapt and I would be surprised a plan B isn't already being worked on in training. I'm more than happy to see us work with what we have. Agree! Nothing really worked that well at the start of the season as the players were still getting to understand Clements style. Totally confident we have a good enough squad to handle a short term loss to Martin, anything long term we'd still need to strengthen, purely for numbers rather than a like for like! Just now, Jean Antoine Tessier said: Agree! Nothing really worked that well at the start of the season as the players were still getting to understand Clements style. Totally confident we have a good enough squad to handle a short term loss to Martin, anything long term we'd still need to strengthen, purely for numbers rather than a like for like! Also maybe we'd see Zanzala come in. As Mel said, Clement has an obligation to develop players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Just now, Albert said: To be honest about, can anyone name a target that would have any intention of playing for us that could replace Martin, regardless of where they'd double our transfer record or not? He's a rare kind of player, and exactly what our current set up needs. Definitely. That's why should the unthinkable happen we should adjust the formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 It's like you watched the forum and didn't listen to a single word anyone said up there. Can't say I'm surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 44 minutes ago, Albert said: The problem is that Martin is a £12 million+ player, and having someone who can do his role to a level where it's not worth just adjusting the formation to make use of Bent, Russell and Weimann could arguably cost us another record transfer fee. We already have a massive squad, with some absolutely class players at this level waiting for their chance, how do you feel they'd feel if we brought in another player to essentially make them redundant rather than actually use them when needed? What makes this even harder is that I honestly can't think of another "Martin-type" that we could realistically bring in. I'm sure our scouting team have targets, but who do you realistically feel could fill Martin's role? Agreed, but if Martin does picked up another Hamstring injury in winter and we are taking being out for a large number of weeks and we are still in contention at that time, would it not be prudent to try for a quality loan player to come to keep the momentum going and push on - or gamble with formation changes and hope it comes good? After all if we make it up this season we will need another Martin type of quality CF if we are going to stop up anyway? 16 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: It's like you watched the forum and didn't listen to a single word anyone said up there. Can't say I'm surprised. Like what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilsonram12 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 When Martin was out bent came in and scored a decent ratio, just the defence let us down forget last season, this is Clements this time and we won't capitulate like we did under SM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 1 hour ago, AnimalisaRam said: If you watch further, they also answer your question. Why would a player want to come in when they know for a fact they will play second fiddle to Martin, or be his understudy? What message does that send to Darren Bent? Sorry, mate, you're just not Chris Martin enough for us. Last season, goals weren't the problem. God awful defending was. Having Thorne back, a consistent centre back pairing, a fit goalkeeper, look to have fixed that. That said, they have a list of targets, should they need to strengthen. Yep, I now they did. Hence, when question of 'who' -do you think would fit the role......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 25 minutes ago, super rams said: Agreed, but if Martin does picked up another Hamstring injury in winter and we are taking being out for a large number of weeks and we are still in contention at that time, would it not be prudent to try for a quality loan player to come to keep the momentum going and push on - or gamble with formation changes and hope it comes good? After all if we make it up this season we will need another Martin type of quality CF if we are going to stop up anyway? Like what? Who would you suggest exactly though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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