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Newcastle United 2015-16 season


i-Ram

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I do find it somewhat humorous when a fan can accuse a manager/coach - not only that, one who was considered to be the best/most qualified to manage his national football team a few years ago - of being 'tactically naive'.

Tactically naive is a bit silly, but just plain old naive? In many ways yeah.

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I know, he was loved by most up until you know happened. So for people to say they always backed him to fail is maybe slightly harsh.

It was always clear though, in hindsight, he lacked something that managers like Davies could do. We couldn't grind out wins, and we weren't adaptable. Teams found it easy to play against us come season 2 of his reign. He was quite stubborn in terms of style of play. He clutched hold of the 4-3-3 that he was successful with initially despite not having the players to play it for half of the second season.

Fergie had it, as did Davies albeit not at the same level, that ability to motivate players to perform beyond their capabilities. McClaren had his flaws of course he did, even if the club refused to back him with money during the injury crisis, his refusal to move from 4-3-3 and Russell as a lone striker cost us dearly. 

I refuse to accept he was a bad manager, he was the best we've had for years and the fans over reaction was an embarrassment, I can't quite go to the levels of Mostyn and blame the fans entirely but had the fans backed him and got behind him we may be in a better position now.

Saying that, I accept he's gone and fully behind Clement now, no point in dwelling on the past...even tho I am now

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Turned us into a serious promotion candidates from an average boring mid table team which finished 3rd in his first season and dominated a Play Off final for 90 minutes. Brought us the best football we have seen since Jim Smith, created a buzz around the club again, improved home attendances and doubled away attendances, not bad for someone without a clue.

 

He failed. We finished 8th. 

You can dress that up how you like and bless you Daveo for trying but he really did fail.

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I do find it somewhat humorous when a fan can accuse a manager/coach - not only that, one who was considered to be the best/most qualified to manage his national football team a few years ago - of being 'tactically naive'.

 

Thank you for using the past tense Eddie and adding weight to my point. 

I would never have thought during his golden years that I would accuse him in the future of being naive but yes, he clearly is at Newcastle and he clearly was at Derby.

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It's hard to say whether he failed or not. I don't think it's that black and white. I'm left with a sour taste in my mouth after his reign, but he transformed us. It was more like a breakup than a football decision. There were good times, we had good times. But it didn't work. He wasn't trustworthy enough and afraid of commitment. Openly flirting with Newcastle was a bad move, whether he intended to do the dirty or not.

It's really not that simple... I mean, did Nige fail? In fact, did Jim Smith fail? We finished 17th in 2001. Dress that up how you like but that's a failure to only just avoid relegation when we were capable of much more.

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I would argue that the fans reluctance to accept his answers and refusal to adapt his tactics to the injuries which made his job untenable. If McClaren had the full backing of the fans he would still be here today and possibly in a better position than we are currently. 

The last few months of the season were an embarrassment from the fans, the whole atmosphere around the club changed from what was the best period this club has seen since Jim Smith.

Blaming the fans is weird. SM was evasive and did himself no favours. His response to questions was embarrassing and toe-curling. However, even after the clusterfcuk that was the last game of the season I never once got the impression 'the fans' wanted him to sacked. There were no protests, just a lot of understandable disappointment that the season ended the way it did. When he was sacked it was a big surprise to everyone - maybe even SR.

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Failed at what, promotion? Same as Clough right?

Shifting those goalposts again eh Daveo?

To answer your question, no. McClaren was brought in to win us promotion. He failed.

Clough was brought in to stabalise the club. He succeeded. 

The first thing McClaren did was to congratulate Clough and acknowledge the success he had in stabalising the club. 

 

Nice try but I guess you failed Daveo. 

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Shifting those goalposts again eh Daveo?

To answer your question, no. McClaren was brought in to win us promotion. He failed.

Clough was brought in to stabalise the club. He succeeded. 

The first thing McClaren did was to congratulate Clough and acknowledge the success he had in stabalising the club. 

 

Nice try but I guess you failed Daveo. 

He was at the end of year 2 of a 3 year plan for promotion.

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No proof of this at all, he turned them down like 3 times. 

There's no proof of that at all. 

He turned them down when they were facing relegation, then it was all silence until their season ended, then it was all silence until his meeting with the bosses here. Who knows what actually happened, but I still like the fanfiction/hypothesis I came up with:

How about a different hypothesis, below is my hypothetical take on what may have happened. Keep in mind this is just hypotheticals and speculation, and should be seen more as fanfiction than a claim of what may or may not have happened, and could probably be released as fan fiction under the name, 50 Shades of Brollies:

McClaren was sounded out back in January. He understandably didn't want to take over Newcastle in the mess they were in, and saw staying with us until the end of the season, in the form we were in with promotion a very real possibility for his CV, as the safer choice for the time being, and understandably the best move for his career at the time. 

At this point Newcastle took a wait and see approach, McClaren kept on his merry way as our manager, and everything kept going as it should. For a time at least. Maybe McClaren didn't completely knock back Newcastle, maybe the board there thought they were in with a chance of it, and maybe McClaren didn't fully rule it out himself, instead asking them to wait until the end of the season, and they'd talk then. Completely understandable, as stated above, from a career perspective, and it gives a feel good factor around him too if he's seen to "remain loyal". 

Of course, what was to follow was the loss of key players to injuries, and the form started to drop. With this, a tough run of games coming up, and the media sniffing the proverbial blood on the water speculation starts to mount. An air of tension builds around the club. Maybe it built both in the stands and in the dressing room. McClaren not completely ruling out the Newcastle job certainly didn't help. With the wheels starting to fall off though, and tension about his future building, problems began to snowball, and he may well have lost the dressing room at some point, who knows. In any case, it's at this point that things truly start falling apart. 

So we get into the final stages of the season, we've gone from promotion favourites to hanging onto the playoffs for dear life, despite having not been out of the top 6 since September. Speculation is still mounting, people are talking, some are even saying that the deal is good as done, some even saying it's already done. The sense of loyalty and commitment about the club is gone, the players aren't sure what's to follow. The momentum's gone, the confidence is gone, and it seems very plausible that their manager may well be too. The wheels are off and the side come crashing down to 8th. A record points total for 8th, but 8th none the less. 

Now, the season is over, Newcastle are in dire straits and still see McClaren as their next man in. With our season over, they may well assume that McClaren might want to take up the role now. But of course, that doesn't fit motives for not taking it originally as speculated above. If he didn't want the Newcastle job because he didn't want to trade a potential promotion on his CV for a potential relegation, now with Newcastle in very real trouble was surely not the time to take over. So very much to lose, so very little to gain in terms of his career. From here, considering the above hypotheticals, he would be fully expected to turn Newcastle down again. If he wants the job, he wants it after the season is over. 

Now, enter the hypothetical Derby boardroom. They have proven themselves to be astute, they have proven themselves to be decisive, and after that collapse they certainly don't want to let that slip. They've got their own shortlist, and have in fact sounded out their own candidate to replace Steve when he potentially goes. There's only one problem, Newcastle aren't going to want to pay compensation if he's not coming immediately, and McClaren, as speculated above, isn't going to go down that route for obvious reasons. The board are as such left in a bit of a bind. They don't want McClaren lingering for months, waiting for the right time, Newcastle are clever, and they're patient, and may well force us to reduce compensation by dragging this on, at a great detriment to preparations for next season. Clement, and other possible targets may well be quite in demand, and the board need to act quickly, even if an agreement in principle has been reached, as to give them job security for next season too. 

The situation is hard for Derby board now. McClaren is of proven quality and in demand, but of unknown loyalty to the cause. If he is off to Newcastle, it's better it happens immediately, if it drags on it could prevent them from getting their first choice replacement in, and could slow down preparations for 2015-16. On the other hand any change could end badly for the side, and ideally McClaren would remain, and would lead us in his third season with the club. They hold a meeting with the head coach to ascertain his loyalty, and whatever was said, ultimately ended with the decision being made for him to leave the club. Who knows what the terms of him leaving would end up being, but the important point for the board was decisive action based on the evidence at hand, and to bring in this first choice candidate sooner, rather than later, to make sure the club were not late off the starting block for next season. 

I don't know, just trashy football fanfiction...

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Well he left here with a 54% win ratio. The attendances went up. We take 3,000 away where we were taking 600. We changed our expectations massively. 

We played the best football we've seen since Eranio and Wanchope for the best part of 2 years.

We went to Wembley.

We are back on the map and without the period he was in charge for do you think we'd have Darren Bent sat on our bench? Do you think we'd be spending £20m on players. He sparked this club into life giving it ambition and enthusiasm. 

Then we sacked him. He was going to stay. Not to say he did or didn't deserve it. But he was sacked and he was going to stay after all. 

Maybe it should be him holding the grudge. People whinge about loyalty but where's the loyalty when we sell players? When we got rid of Steele? Goes both ways. 

For these reasons I don't understand the hostile attitude towards him. Indifference maybe. Gratitude for some. But I don't know why you'd wish him to fail? 

I'm hoping to have the same belief in Clement and Co that I would have had in Mac to turn it around. Not that I'm against Clement and Co. Just so far it's 'meh'

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Well he left here with a 54% win ratio. The attendances went up. We take 3,000 away where we were taking 600. We changed our expectations massively. 

We played the best football we've seen since Eranio and Want hope for the best part of 2 years.

We went to Wembley.

We are back on the map and without the period he was in charge for do you think we'd have Darren Bent sat on our bench? Do you think we'd be spending £20m on players. He sparked this club into life giving it ambition and enthusiasm. 

Then we sacked him. He was going to stay. Not to say he did or didn't deserve it. But he was sacked and he was going to stay after all. 

Maybe it should be him holding the grudge. People whinge about loyalty but where's the loyalty when we sell players? When we got rid of Steele? Goes both ways. 

For these reasons I don't understand the hostile attitude towards him. Indifference maybe. Gratitude for some. But I don't know why you'd wish him to fail? 

I'm hoping to have the same belief in Clement and Co that I would have had in Mac to turn it around. Not that I'm against Clement and Co. Just so far it's 'meh'

"He was going to stay" 

Do you have any proof that was the case? What's that, you don't, we don't, there doesn't appear to be any such proof of the sort? 

I'm glad for what McClaren did here, but what happened with him leaving is not something I'd hold against the club. They made a decision, and I'm sure it was a hard one to make. However, if we'd missed out on our first choice candidate as a replacement, and he left anyhow after a protracted saga with Newcastle over the summer, how much damage could have been done to our preparations for this season. There are already people whinging that "we signed players before Clement had time here", how do you think people would feel if we brought in a replacement for McClaren a month out from the season if Newcastle had screwed us around trying to get his compensation down. 

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"He was going to stay" 

Do you have any proof that was the case? What's that, you don't, we don't, there doesn't appear to be any such proof of the sort? 

I'm glad for what McClaren did here, but what happened with him leaving is not something I'd hold against the club. They made a decision, and I'm sure it was a hard one to make. However, if we'd missed out on our first choice candidate as a replacement, and he left anyhow after a protracted saga with Newcastle over the summer, how much damage could have been done to our preparations for this season. There are already people whinging that "we signed players before Clement had time here", how do you think people would feel if we brought in a replacement for McClaren a month out from the season if Newcastle had screwed us around trying to get his compensation down. 

Mel Morris said he was staying. Not saying some of his heart wasn't in Newcastle. But he wasn't resigning. He did say he'd stay and be our manager for this season.

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Mel Morris said he was staying. Not saying some of his heart wasn't in Newcastle. But he wasn't resigning. He did say he'd stay and be our manager for this season.

Him not resigning doesn't mean we weren't in for a long summer that would end in him leaving anyhow, as the two clubs had a stare down over keeping him. 

We simply don't know what would have happened, but the simple point is that the facts of the situation do fit that the club were worried that we were in for a long staredown with Newcastle that could well have ended with him leaving, with us well behind the 8 ball in recruitment and in terms of the manager come the start of the season. This narrative people have been spinning of him "being sacked for 8th" doesn't fit how the club has operated, nor does it fit what's happened after. 

Whilst we don't know how things exactly played out though, simply stating "he was going to stay" is bizarrely simplistic and doesn't capture the feeling and the issues about what actually happened. You can't simply say it then ask why some hold a grudge against McClaren or Newcastle. 

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McClaren nor any right minded manager wasn't going to say to the press that he wasn't that bothered about joining them until he was sacked.

Of course he was going to say he always wanted to join.

Just like every player says that they always wanted to sign for a massive club like Derby... 

Why say anything other than the most sugar coated response to questions like that, when the truth could possibly make your life so much more difficult and have the fans doubting you from the off?

Don't be so precious - it's just media training.

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Him not resigning doesn't mean we weren't in for a long summer that would end in him leaving anyhow, as the two clubs had a stare down over keeping him. 

We simply don't know what would have happened, but the simple point is that the facts of the situation do fit that the club were worried that we were in for a long staredown with Newcastle that could well have ended with him leaving, with us well behind the 8 ball in recruitment and in terms of the manager come the start of the season. This narrative people have been spinning of him "being sacked for 8th" doesn't fit how the club has operated, nor does it fit what's happened after. 

Whilst we don't know how things exactly played out though, simply stating "he was going to stay" is bizarrely simplistic and doesn't capture the feeling and the issues about what actually happened. You can't simply say it then ask why some hold a grudge against McClaren or Newcastle. 

I don't understand. He said he was going to stay. He had chances to join Newcastle and didn't take them. In the end he left by being sacked. I don't see why it's wrong to assume he'd stay based on that? Instead it makes more sense to hold a grudge based on the theory that something different might have happened? 

What did actually happen? Because I didn't go into meltdown with all the speculation. I thought what I think about pretty much every player/manager. If he goes then he goes but while he's here I assume it's by choice. He could take the move if he wanted it. 

Are people holding a grudge because he turned them into emotional wrecks when he didn't shout his love for dcfc from the rooftops? If so then that's funny to me. 

Are they holding a grudge because they believe it all derailed our season? Now this seems fairer but it completely discounts injuries. But he was sacked for it. He didn't stop trying to win games. He didn't leave the club. He shrugged at the speculation and carried on. After Reading he carried on. 

Believe me when I say that I'm not saying I think we were wrong to sack him. I personally would have liked to see him try and get back what we had. But I fully understand why he was sacked. So much went on.

But looking back at the whole picture, looking back on his results and knowing that, yes it ended ugly, he didn't leave until pushed... I don't see why people want him to fail. 

People are saying things along the lines of "bet he wished he'd stayed here" and basically laughing at his decision to join Newcastle. He didn't leave us for Newcastle. That's a fact. And as far as we know, he wasn't going to. 

He was never going to arrive at Newcastle and say "it's not quite Derby but it's better than Jobseekers Allowance."

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this is almost megalolz!

I'll try and give a bizarre analogy, but won't use the wife/girlfriend.

Imagine you have a 20 year old daughter, the apple of your eye, your princess. She's had a few boyfriends, mainly losers. Her new boyfriend seems a good match, but after a while, he notices another bloke eyeing her up. She doesn't really pay attention, but the jealousy consumes him. He eventually accuses her of planning to leave him, she denies it, having never even considered it, although she might have been chatted up by some bloke on a night out, but she definitely made it clear she was in a relationship and she was happy. Anyway, this jealousy is bad. He eventually starts verbally abusing her, really upsetting her, even starts arguing with her friends on nights out, accusing them of being unfit to be her friend, resulting in them being distant towards your daughter, perhaps not being the best friends they can be, but they've been intimidated by a bully. This goes on for six  months and your daughter is struggling to make the relationship successful, or even fun. Nothing she tries is good enough for the boyfriend, she becomes nervous and clumsy, and drops things and says the wrong thing every now and then. It's a struggle, but your daughter sticks with it, but the boyfriend is still accusing her of intending to break up with him and leave him for the bloke in the pub. She has no intention of doing this, in spite of the disgusting treatment from her boyfriend and now even his friends are giving her grief.

Then, out of the blue, the boyfriend dumps your daughter and gets it on with a virgin from Essex, on the premise that once she learns a few tricks, she will be pure filth in the bedroom.

Meanwhile your daughter is alone for a while, and the bloke in the pub has split up with his useless bint, and eventually asks her out, makes her feel wanted. She thinks to herself that he's been nice to her a few times and shown an interest and in all that time when her ex-boyfriend was making her miserable by being an ******** to her and her mates, and even his mates were mean too, this guy seemed okay. She decides to go on a few dates with him. It's not brilliant, but he tries hard.

Meanwhile the ex-boyfriend and his mates go around telling everyone your daughter is a filthy slag and deserves to get aids.

 

Something amiss here.

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